Mayan pyramid destroyed in order to build new road..

[Slew Foot]

Turn it in to a casino, then they can make money off of it

 

[CPA]

http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/14/world/americas/belize-mayan-pyramid-destroyed/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

The comment section is very interesting, especially



But seriously, at what point does a historic building no longer have value? In 1000 years, how many of our modern buildings should be kept up as historic? Was there any other knowledge or value that could be obtained from studying the building, or had archaeologists extracted everything they could?

IMO at some point we have to let go of the past. It's like keeping pictures of your ex-girlfriend around. For history's though, I have no idea what that point is. But we can't keep absolutely everything, I know that much.

Valid question. I've never quite understood the necessity to landmark as many buildings as we do. I think much of it is for nostalgic sake or done by a group of people who have childhood memories of a place.

 

[SlitheryDee]

Oh the historicity!

 

[DrPizza]

Valid question. I've never quite understood the necessity to landmark as many buildings as we do. I think much of it is for nostalgic sake or done by a group of people who have childhood memories of a place.

Oftentimes, there are grants available for landmark buildings. Let's see.. if I can get this place denoted as a landmark, my brother in law can get a high priced contract to fix it up, paid for by a grant.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

This is one of the most ignorant things I've ever read.

Almost beats the dude that went on vacation to Cuba and was astonished at how lovely the country was. :awe:

 

[ViviTheMage]

They should not have torn it down ...

 

[DesiPower]

Did they find anything inside?

What's the big deal? we cut down rain forests and kill wildlife every day to build houses and stuff... A pyramid is only man made, can be build again.

 

[Dr. Detroit]

I don't want to drag this out....but when you talk about the culture of native Americans being alive in this country...what exactly do you mean by "alive?"

Have you spent much time on a reservation? And does a tribal casino reflect the culture in an honest way?

Much like your tour guides and servers in a sterile, isolated resort area, it seems that the cultures of conquered and displaced people are allowed to survive in the capacity that they can provide us entertainment, no?

:hmm:

Oh fuck - I totally forgot that Native Americans must wear deer hide clothing, live in tee-pees, kill buffalo, and harvest maize in order to keep their culture alive.

And on the other end of the spectrum we have - all American Indians are alcoholics, live on reservations, and screw the white man over on their casinos.

No middle ground to be had?

And those Mayan's I met were all being exploited and because they carry a job in the tourism industry they are not allowed to embrace their culture by teaching others about it.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Oh fuck - I totally forgot that Native Americans must wear deer hide clothing, live in tee-pees, kill buffalo, and harvest maize in order to keep their culture alive.

And on the other end of the spectrum we have - all American Indians are alcoholics, live on reservations, and screw the white man over on their casinos.

No middle ground to be had?

And those Mayan's I met were all being exploited and because they carry a job in the tourism industry they are not allowed to embrace their culture by teaching others about it.

So then plz define what culture you're referring to.

 

[HardcoreRobot]

reminds me of this:

On March 24, 1545, Valladolid was relocated to its current location, built atop a Maya town called Zaci or Zaci-Val, whose buildings were dismantled to reuse the stones to build the Spanish colonial town. The following year the Maya people revolted, but were put down with additional Spanish troops coming from Mérida.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valladolid,_Yucatán

I suspect the Spanish likely did a lot of this. Easy building materials AND undermined the local culture.

 

[Dr. Detroit]

So then plz define what culture you're referring to.

Language, art, food, music, storytelling, beliefs, traditions, holidays, celebrations

That was tough!

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Language, art, food, music, storytelling, beliefs, traditions, holidays, celebrations

That was tough!

Something like sub-2% of Mexicans speak a Mayan language, and I'd imagine that a similar amount (or less) actually follow Mayan customs to any significant degree. Do you still think that it is "their own people" shitting on their culture?

 

[zinfamous]

Oh fuck - I totally forgot that Native Americans must wear deer hide clothing, live in tee-pees, kill buffalo, and harvest maize in order to keep their culture alive.

And on the other end of the spectrum we have - all American Indians are alcoholics, live on reservations, and screw the white man over on their casinos.

No middle ground to be had?

And those Mayan's I met were all being exploited and because they carry a job in the tourism industry they are not allowed to embrace their culture by teaching others about it.

I think there is a middle ground, sure, but you can't deny that the majority of the populations that chose to retain their tribal habits--self-policing, government, etc--the honest attempt to preserve culture if you want to carry this on--only exists on the reservations. It's a very bad place to be--you never answered whether or not you have visited.

Alcohol is a difficult issue with the group. Native Americans descended, obviously, from the earliest nomads that found and settled in the Americans, which were predominantly mongoloid/Asian. And like this population, they retain only one copy of ADH, which helps to metabolize alcohol. This means that it tends to affect the population differently than it does people of European origin. Even if consumption levels were comparable, the effects on the two populations would show a significant difference.

Addressing this as a problem in the population is not calling them a bunch of alcoholic drunks--it points to a socioeconomic and biological convergence of issues that has plagued a large part of the community.

art, music, all of these things. Yes, it exists--primarily in museums and souvenir shops or even other higher-class art boutiques in regions more historically tied to the local tribe.

So yes, it does exist, and I don't mean to disparage anyone or any group for finding work in any industry and for whatever reason, but it's simply not true to argue that these cultures exist today on an equal and respected level as does the culture of their once-conquerers.

 

[Dr. Detroit]

I think there is a middle ground, sure, but you can't deny that the majority of the populations that chose to retain their tribal habits--self-policing, government, etc--the honest attempt to preserve culture if you want to carry this on--only exists on the reservations. It's a very bad place to be--you never answered whether or not you have visited.

Alcohol is a difficult issue with the group. Native Americans descended, obviously, from the earliest nomads that found and settled in the Americans, which were predominantly mongoloid/Asian. And like this population, they retain only one copy of ADH, which helps to metabolize alcohol. This means that it tends to affect the population differently than it does people of European origin. Even if consumption levels were comparable, the effects on the two populations would show a significant difference.

Addressing this as a problem in the population is not calling them a bunch of alcoholic drunks--it points to a socioeconomic and biological convergence of issues that has plagued a large part of the community.

art, music, all of these things. Yes, it exists--primarily in museums and souvenir shops or even other higher-class art boutiques in regions more historically tied to the local tribe.

So yes, it does exist, and I don't mean to disparage anyone or any group for finding work in any industry and for whatever reason, but it's simply not true to argue that these cultures exist today on an equal and respected level as does the culture of their once-conquerers.

Completely agree - Cultural shifts occur, aside from those untouched tribes in the Amazon - cultural shift to a more western technology oriented lifestyle is occurring worldwide. I don't think that just because someone has a cell phone means they have given up on there culture.

Whats important is that folks - leaders in the community - are trying to culturally enrich the community and pass key items down through the generations.

So - sure only 2% of the Mexican population identifies as Mayan, but its those leaders who are focused on keeping the culture alive and current that are celebrated. meeting some of those people who celebrate there culture and want to share with others is important.

Not everyone shuns their past & their culture - celebrate those who embrace it. I'll be hanging out on some tribal land in about 6-weeks and while eating some fry bread is on my list of tasty eats its also to support them in keeping the tribal waterways damn free and to protect the fish & game that keep their culture alive & strong.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Valid question. I've never quite understood the necessity to landmark as many buildings as we do. I think much of it is for nostalgic sake or done by a group of people who have childhood memories of a place.

Have you ever been to any of the old cities in Europe? Imagine if they just tore down the old churches and buildings to build new churches and skyscrapers. You lose the history and appeal of those places and pretty soon everything looks like Dubai or Singapore.

 

[Doppel]

That pyramid looked pretty shitty, but yeah it is kind of sad.

 

[Red Squirrel]

That is kind of terrible. I think historical places should be preserved. It's not "I want to kill them all" terrible, but still terrible. Just build around it or something. That particular pyramid does not really look like much though.

 

[Crono]

That's no Mayan pyramid, that's a prism cannon!

 

[Crusty]

That pyramid looked pretty shitty, but yeah it is kind of sad.

It is literally a pile of limestone rocks covered with dirt and foliage.

 

[Doppel]

It is literally a pile of limestone rocks covered with dirt and foliage.

I was hoping the pics were lazy and it was more than it seems in those pics. It does look lame.

 

[sdifox]

From 250BC... hand chiselled stone turned into gravel. Shake head.

 

[sdifox]

Something like sub-2% of Mexicans speak a Mayan language, and I'd imagine that a similar amount (or less) actually follow Mayan customs to any significant degree. Do you still think that it is "their own people" shitting on their culture?

Belize <> Mexico

 

[DukeN]

Belize <> Mexico

 

[preslove]

This.

It's not 'trolling.' Or 'troll baiting,' whatever the hell that is (seems to imply the other party is the 'troll'...). I don't support the destruction of the ruins in question. Just pointing out that they Mayans are, you know, dead. As is most of their DNA, other than what got through as a result of the Spaniards copulating with likely-unwilling native women.

That last bit is debatable, of course. Some would say the cultures merged, but...not really.

There's tons of Mayan DNA left, and the copulation was widespread and not so unwilling.

This crime does pale in comparison to the catholic destruction of the Mayan codices, though...

 

[HomerJS]

In other breaking news the pyrimids in Egypt will be torn down to begin construction of Cairo Disney