Maximum BS minimum PC ,Middle Finger Attitude!

[Remedy]

Dizzzam! WOW

 

[odog]

this deserves a bump for sure.... i remember reading about how boot was being changed to MPC... they made sure to tell you that "everything would stay the same....except the name" LOL...

in the end...i give used toilet paper more respect then Maximum PC..

 

[Remedy]

<< In my opinion, the best way to read a MaximumPC magazine is by going to your local Barnes and Noble and reading it inside the store. Can you imagine paying $7.99 for junk reviews? At least if you go to an online hardware review site you're not paying for their opinions. There has to be guidelines for making a review. You can't simply apply stricter rules to certain companies, and speak wonders about a company because they provide you with other services >>



Talk about gettin what you pay for!

 

[Remedy]

<< &quot;The best we could comfortably muster with our Duron machine was a pathetic 714 on a 102mhz bus. It looks like Intel is further along with it's process than AMD&quot; -MPC

Can you swallow this and not choke? Everyone on the Internet has been raving about overclocking their Durons past 900MHz, and the supposed &quot;Kings of Extreme&quot; can't get theirs past 714MHz. Than they blame AMD for a weak overclocking VIA chipset as though AMD manufacturers it. To top it all off, they say &quot;Looks like Intel is further along with its process than AMD&quot;. I can't stop laughing at this article, or the fact that people pay to read this junk. I guess nobody at MPC read about Intel having production problems and the lack of availability of their processor all over the world. Did they also forget the fact that Intel recently recalled almost 1 million motherboards? How about Intel pulling the 1.13GHz P-3 processor off of the market because it was unstable? Sounds like Intel is further along to me! >>



Hardware,Auric and Urbantechie are you getting this??? [beachslapps] all three like mo larry and curly[beachslapped/]

 

[jinsonxu]

Interesting read. I remember that Boot was one of my favourites before i got internet. It's a real pity.

 

[Cknyc]

Can someonje post the article. I cant seem to read it from the lab computers.

Thanks in advance..

 

[jinsonxu]

Maximum PC
True Gamers or Corporate Puppets?
October 30, 2000, by Mr PC Pro



When I first decided to take on this report one of my forum members was completely shocked! Debunking someone's test results is not a fun task, and I wouldn't do it unless I felt the results presented were so tainted it's insulting. The other reason behind my decision to create this report is simply that Maximum PC has a huge audience of readers, most of whom will take their results and say, &quot;THIS MUST BE RIGHT, IT'S IN MAXIMUMPC&quot;. Hmm, I sometimes wonder if these are the same people who subscribe to Ziff Davis magazines. Nobody is perfect, but you need to be able to determine if a company shows favoritism towards their sponsors, did not take the time to do a good review, or posted results honestly and to the best of their ability. Before we begin, let me show you an e-mail one of my team members sent me after reading my article:

Carlos I don't think that you went far enough!!! Since the loss of Andrew Sanchez, and Brad Dosland the reporting has been a joke. The legacy of Boot magazine has NOT been carried to the present. I started with Boot #8 and let my subscription die this year in Feb. This was in disgust with the reporting and reviews. Gordon Mah Ung is, in my opinion, on the Intel payroll. Jon Phillips just does not have the chutzpah, or the cajonies that Brad Dosland had, and Andrew Sanchez was as objective in his reviews as you can get. MAXIMUM BS minimum PC is just an Intel rag. That Duron vs. Celeron THING had me seeing red!
Jerry's(UOF) first e-mail.

Jerry's second e-mail ----

Let me explain a few things. The loss of Andrew Sanchez, the hardware editor for BOOT and MAXIMUMPC magazines, was due to an untimely death at the age of 29. He had by far the most objective reviews in the computer magazine industry, if something was a POS, he called it a POS, but in language appropriate for a magazine. If somebody else reviewed a piece of hardware or software, he made sure that objectivity was the number one criteria.


Brad Dosland was the Editor in Chief; he kept everything going at a slow boil. It was his stated policy to never favor any manufacturer or software publisher. Due to this policy BOOT magazine did not have a whole lot of advertising. I believe that this is what forced BOOT to become MAXIMUMPC. This was a business decision, I can understand that, but with the name change, the hunt for the advertising dollar became more important than objectivity. After Andrews death Imagine Publishing Inc. moved Brad Dosland out of the position of Editor in Chief. With this MAXIMUMPC, in my opinion, started its slide into becoming just another Intel rag.

An example of this was when MAXAMIMPC did a motherboard roundup, there were five or six Intel chip set motherboards and only ONE SS7 motherboard, and that was a FIC VA 2013, which had known problems with the AMD K6-2 and the K6 III. There was no mention at all about the SS7 motherboard from EpoX, TYAN, DFI, AUSUS, AOPEN, etc. The EpoX MVP3G-M series was arguably one of the best SS7 motherboards ever released, it was available and reviewed by others many months before the MAXIMUMPC article, magazine lead time was not an excuse. When the Athlon was first reviewed by MAXIMUMPC they benched it faster by far over anything Intel had, yet they still recommended the PII or P!!! over the Athlon. The reason was that it did not do Photo Shop as fast as the Intel CPU; Photo Shop had been optimized for Intel's SSE instruction set and NOT for AMD's 3DNOW! instruction set! There are many other instances of Intel bias by MAXIMUMPC, to many to list.


It is truly a shame that BOOT magazine has degraded into MAXIMUMPC. The current staff has lost the vision, and the ideals that made a good magazine GREAT!
UOF

We share your pain Jerry!

When I read my first copy of Boot Magazine (&quot;MaximumPC&quot I was really amazed at how cool these guys came off. They used words like &quot;Kick Ass&quot; and &quot;Sexy&quot;, to describe computers. It was even fun to see them overclocking just about anything they could get their hands on. With MPC magazine I came to realize that this is what being an extreme gamer is all about! To top everything off, the magazine comes with a cd containing benchmarking software, and game demos. What else can there be in life? I never really paid attention to the fact that Dell © always has an advertisement on the front cover or back page of their magazines. I figured MPC has to pay their employees, and for their computers somehow! The problem is to what extent do you try to keep your sponsors happy.

Hey, Dell is the certainly the biggest name in buying computers direct from the manufacturer. Intel lovers scream for joy at the fact that Dell refuses to use AMD processors in their systems. Government, corporations, and educational institutions sign big contracts and supposedly get great deals on computers. MaximumPC editors and employees are no dummies. I'm sure the attitude at MaximumPC must be like, &quot;watch what you say about Dell or Intel. Otherwise, we'll have to start buying our computers at full price!&quot; Do you think I'm crazy? Probably, but take at look at these quick facts:

1. Go to MaximumPC review database and type in Dell in the company box. Results? In the past 3 years 7 out of 12 Dell systems reviewed scored a 9 and 2 systems captured a 10 (1 notebook, 1 Tower system). 2 systems received an 8 and the lowest score ever received was a 6. Not including the 6, the average score in the past 3 years has been a 9! Here is something funny I noticed about the system that received a 6:

It's categorized as a software review
In the September 2000 issue, the system reviewer for the lowest scoring Dell system was Geoffrey Visiglio. In October, the only review that Geoffrey did was for a printer! Talk about payback.
Online, you can't even see an image of this system in their review. (are they that embarrassed!)
2. What company makes MaximumPC's test bed system? I'll give you a hint, it uses a PIII 733 and it reads D***. I guess they couldn't build their own.

3. In the last 3 years only a Dell system has ever scored a perfect 10. In 1997 Micron did receive a 10, but that's it.

My intent is not to make an accusation, simply observing some facts that I've noticed.


Anyway, just because you don't plaster your name all over their magazine doesn't mean you can't get a high marks through some other methods. This is just speculation, but after reading their review of the HP 8700 DV Studio, it makes me wonder what their bonus check from HP must look like. Just go to the August 2000 edition of their magazine and look at the pics (sorry, the pictures I'm referring to only appear in the magazine).

1. Look at the location of the power supply. It blocks access to every PCI slot in the system. Of course that wasn't enough for HP because even the AGP slot is blocked by the stupidly placed power supply.

2. What about cabling inside the system? That system is scary inside and almost suffocates from all of the wires dangling around the case. This has to be the worst designed system I have ever seen, and it actually scored a 9. The article even states &quot;Although the Pinnacle Firewire card and Studio DV software are both fine products, their inclusion in this system is actually what prevent it from winning a Kick Ass award.&quot; Are they kidding me?

Just think back to October 1999 where Cybermax submitted a work of art in cabling and design. Here is a quote from the review &quot;Wiring this clean should be displayed in a museum.&quot; The Cybermax system broke just about every benchmark record they had. Yet somehow both of these systems scored a 9. Why was Cybermax denied a 10? Here is the answer direct from the magazine &quot; it's glaring lack of a mounted fan to blow out hot air cost the Cybermax a verdict point in the final tally.&quot; If Cybermax lost a point for no fan, how many points should the HP System loose for:

1. a poorly placed power supply,
2. a cramped case,
3. the need to remove just about every internal part just to access any peripherals,
4. HP bundling a pair of junk speakers like the Polk Audio AMR2 with a $3K system

On page 80 of August 00 edition, two pages ahead of their HP review, MPC criticizes Sony for using horrible sounding speakers. But just listen to the Polk Audio AMR2 speakers and you'd swear they use these speakers to torture captives in a Turkish prison. Just to put an end to this point, read page 69 of the October 00 issue to see what it says. Here is a quote from their review of the Axis Terra AXA &quot;A fan to move air out of the case would be nice, but it's not necessary.&quot; Simply Insulting!

In my opinion, the best way to read a MaximumPC magazine is by going to your local Barnes and Noble and reading it inside the store. Can you imagine paying $7.99 for junk reviews? At least if you go to an online hardware review site you're not paying for their opinions. There has to be guidelines for making a review. You can't simply apply stricter rules to certain companies, and speak wonders about a company because they provide you with other services. If expandability, design, speed, ease of use, warranty, are all part of your final verdict than apply those rules to every system or peripheral you review. Than make it clear to the user on how you tally your points. You also need to remember that a review is only the experience of 1 person. Rarely will you find more than1 person has reviewed a system, let alone including user feedback into a review.

Well, you are still not convinced that there is something strange about the way MaximumPC presents their benchmark results. Maybe I'm only one voice shouting in the wilderness. I think this bit of information will help you make up your decision.

Recently AMD released their &quot;Duron&quot; processor and it has created some waves in the budget computer industry. What's amazing about this processor is that you can buy 650Mhz of processing power for about $50. Duron's design is based on the Athlon's 7th generation core, and dollar for dollar is the fastest processor you can buy. Every reviewer has clearly shown that when it comes to budget processors there is none faster than Duron by a wide margin. Well everyone except, you guessed it, MaximumPC. The results they obtained, or published at least, were absurd. They even used a motherboard with an 815E chipset, which is definitely slower than a motherboard using a BX chipset, and still achieved unbelievable results.

Here are some of the ridiculous remarks from their review:

&quot;The best we could comfortably muster with our Duron machine was a pathetic 714 on a 102mhz bus. It looks like Intel is further along with it's process than AMD&quot; -MPC

Can you swallow this and not choke? Everyone on the Internet has been raving about overclocking their Durons past 900MHz, and the supposed &quot;Kings of Extreme&quot; can't get theirs past 714MHz. Than they blame AMD for a weak overclocking VIA chipset as though AMD manufacturers it. To top it all off, they say &quot;Looks like Intel is further along with its process than AMD&quot;. I can't stop laughing at this article, or the fact that people pay to read this junk. I guess nobody at MPC read about Intel having production problems and the lack of availability of their processor all over the world. Did they also forget the fact that Intel recently recalled almost 1 million motherboards? How about Intel pulling the 1.13GHz P-3 processor off of the market because it was unstable? Sounds like Intel is further along to me!

So MaximumPC's reviewers really aren't that good with overlocking.,Yet somehow they encounter no diffuculties with PCI devices running on a 41MHz bus, thanks to their much more reliable Celeron motherboard. It's also nice to note that they tossed the 815 motherboard for a Soyo Sy-7VCA. Apparently their 815 isn't good for overclocking! The guy who did this review doesn't know jack about overclocking. Just read what this joker stated regarding overclocking :

&quot; We were able to cajole the 700MHz Celeron all the way to 872 without experiencing immediate problems.&quot;- MPC

Well I overclocked my Athlon 650 to 1GHZ and I was almost able to load windows. Since my system didn't suffer problems &quot;immediately&quot; according to MaximumPC I can consider it a successful overclock. If you can't run your system for at least 24 hours without experiencing problems, you have not successfully overclocked your system. You also need to run benchmarks, especially Quake 3, in a loop for about 24 hours to see if your system is stable. I won't even get into this topic.

Here is another famous quote from this review:
&quot;AMD simply took the basic core of it's celebrated Athlon, moved it to a new 0.18-micron process, reduced its L2 cache size, and called it &quot;budget&quot;- MPC

Is this supposed to be a bad thing? So what is a Celeron than? Is it some new design that Intel came up with after years of research to make a budget processor? if you read MaximumPC's description of the Celeron they make it sound as though Intel went to great lengths to design it. I don't think so. Folks, AMD just did what Intel has been doing successfully for years, selling you virtually the same product, crippled in some areas, selling it under a different name and calling it budget. However, when AMD does it, it's inferred as being bad, but when Intel does it it's labeled &quot;a bargain-basement powerhouse&quot; or &quot;Celeron is essentially a P-III.&quot;

Here's another:

&quot;Unfortunately, to ensure that the chip is inferior to the new Thunderbird Athlon, AMD trimmed the Duron's L2 cache to 64K. &quot;- MPC

So what did Intel do? Let's see a PIII has 256K of L2 cache and a Celeron has 128K of L2 cache. Gee, I'm straining myself to think of what Intel did to cripple the Celeron. Besides stripping some cache away to make the Celeron, the Celeron is still stuck on a 66MHz-bus speed. However, MPC doesn't dare accuse Intel of intentionally crippling the Celeron so that it doesn't compete with the P-III. Instead they say

&quot;More cynical observers believe Intel is intent on making sure the Celeron doesn't steal the P-III's thunder&quot; Talk about a gutless maneuver! &quot; -MPC

Honestly, I can be here forever telling you about how this article stinks. Instead, I've decided to provide you with links to read about how a Duron compares with a Celeron:

Sharky Extreme
http://www.sharkyextreme.com/hardware/articles/duron_vs_celeron_oc/11.shtml
Review Zone
http://www.review-zone.com/hardware/processors/duron_roundup/page5.shtml
Anandtech
http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1336&amp;p=8
TomsHardware
http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/00q2/000619/duron-08.html
Firing Squad
http://firingsquad.gamers.com/hardware/cel600vsdur600/page3.asp
ZDNet (PC Magazine)
http://www.zdnet.com/pcmag/stories/reviews/0,6755,2618390,00.html
Overclockers.com
http://www.overclockers.com/articles195/


I'll finish this report by saying &quot;I wish the old Boot Magazine guys would come back&quot;. Listen, if you like Intel, AMD, Dell, or HP than just say so. Take for example AMDzone, 3dnow.net, 3dnow.org, can you guess what cpu these guys like? Than look at the Intel sites: Sharky's Extreme, Ziff Davis, MaximumPC. No clear indication of who they support, but everyone knows these magazines are the voice of Intel and Dell. I'll leave the closing statements to another member of my staff, David(Defender).

&quot;Nothing really to add, but I do think that problem isn't just with Maximum PC...but also PCGamer, CGW, and a few others out there that have Dell as a major backer. I can't think of any ZD magazine out there that doesn't pray to Intel/Dell.&quot; - Defender.

I think Defender's statement summarizes my report nicely.

Mr PC Pro

 

[Jonny]

I didn't read the whole article, but just from their last months magazine, I know they are full of sh*t.

They said the Duron was faster, but only a LITTLE WEE bit, and for those who plan to overclock, the celeron is a better option.


Sad, really sad.

 

[Rogue]

My subscription will die a terrible death. I almost loathe seeing it in my mailbox now. Oh how the mighty have fallen. Boy, seems like everyone with any sort of investment in Intel is losing badly.

 

[Cknyc]

Thanks for posting jinsonxu. Those are some pretty bold accusations. I use to read tha magazine way back when it was boot. The final magazine I read was the p3 vs athlon one. I noticed the same thing the author of this report did. I wonder if MaximumBS will reply to this..

 

[Cknyc]

Here is MAximumBS's attempt to correct their mistake.

 

[Stark]

They have some interesting ideas, but not the talent to pull off great articles. The latest issue with the home theatre system was a joke. Sure pioneer gave them a pretty plasma display to play with, but they mentioned nothing about the os they were using.

It turns out the system they built will work fine for 98/ME, but anyone trying to use Win2000 will be screwed once they try finding drivers. The AIW radeon only offers beta drivers and dvd player, the utobia dvd motion mpeg-2 decoder doesn't have 2000 drivers available at all.

Second &quot;bank-account saver&quot; choices? Anand's review shows that the V3 3500 is a poor choice for dvd playback. And RealJukebox Plus for the mp3 software? I think charges of corporate sell-out may be justified.

 

[snow]

Their reporting is crap and their reviewing is centered around a curve of 9. Cancelled my subscription long ago.

 

[JaiKnight]

Same as jinsonxu, used to read Boot all the time before Internet, and now all this, it's sad... don't even bother with the magazines much anymore, they're usually out of date (not really their fault compared to Internet sources), and/or they're biased (is their fault in many cases).

 

[RagingGuardian]

It's a good thing my subscription was free. I would've been stabbing myself if I was paying for their crap reviews and !ntel bias.

 

[Vrangel]

Since the death of 'PC accelerator' theres nothing left really...

 

[andylawcc]

ditto Vrangel...

 

[Madcowz]

What caught my attention even more so was the Athlon Pisses All Over P-4 in forum topics. I couldn't help but click on it only to await more laughs... &quot;Athlon beats P4 in urinating contest&quot;

&quot;If they think this compares to Athlon they are joking. At 1.5GHz the P4 is outperformed by a PIII 933, never mind an Athlon 1GHz which urinates in rather copious quantities over the oversized, overcomplicated piece of silicon.&quot;

Asked if this would affect the company's plans to build P4 systems, your man replied:

&quot;We will sell them, because the Intel marketing machine will generate demand.&quot;


I just love the correlation made w/ urination... now THAT'S funny!

 

[LXi]

Who still reads paper??

This is me 3 years ago:

PC Magazine
PCComputing(now renamed SmartBusinesses)
PC World
Windows(closed)
Home PC(bought by Maximum BS)
Maximum PC


This is me now:

Maximum PC 1 yr left

 

[NFS4]

I used to read PC Gamer and MaximumPC/Boot...not anymore

 

[Modus]

I get physically sick just thinking about the thousands of people reading Maximum PC and other mainstream computer magazines thinking that they offer some semblance of the truth. I'm serious. I feel nauseous right now.

There is not a single print magazine offering its subscribers anything remotely accurate concerning computer hardware. The editors of PC Magazine, PC World, Maximum PC, et all, should be lined up and shot on Internet simulcast, for perpetuating two great myths about the current state of affairs:

- that an informed consumer should even consider a name brand PC over cheaper, faster clones from respected resellers

- that some one, some where, might have a valid reason to use an Intel CPU in a new computer

Only with their deaths will my stomach turn over to its correct position.

Modus

 

[nEoTeChMaN]

I've stopped reading it 3 years ago.

 

[HaVoC]

Ugh...Maximum BS indeed! I'm glad I cancelled my MPC subscription a few months back. Only mag I get is MAXIM which is actually fun to read and does not raise your blood pressure with bias.

 

[steverama]

Don't know about the rest of you, but I don't buy PC mags anymore. At the price they're asking, I'll buy a six pack instead, sit in front of my computer, and enjoy these forums! No way does ANY computer magazine offer anything close to the massive amount of information that can be found on tech sites and forums like this one! Also, I find MOST magazines to be extremely biased and tend to mislead the readers. For example, a couple of weeks ago, a friend of mine argues with me that the better video card to buy is an ATI Rage Fury Pro! With all the latest cards that have cropped up in the last 2 months???? Come on! Most magazines are full of BS and should be used ONLY when you run out of toilet paper.

 

[Passions]

Wow I totally agree. I used to read boot in high school and I looked forward each month readin that kick ass mag, but MPC just isnt the same. When you read it, you can tell the pro-intel biased all over the place and it just lacks compleltely.