I don't know, I have the demo, but haven't gotten around to beating it, too much like the old game I guess.
Two of two reviews I've read showed Radeons far outperforming FXs (Snowman posted the H review, and here's NordicHardware's numbers). Given the level of (im)maturity you've displayed so far compared to that shown by the authors of both of those reviews, I'm more inclined to believe that you're doing something wrong than that nVidia dramatically improved performance with later drivers.
Still, it's possible that, at your settings, your 5950 may look better than your 9800P did. What resolution are you playing at, with what level of filtering (AA & aniso), and did you use the same settings with both cards? Maybe MP2 has an "extra high res" textures mode for 256MB cards?
OT: I thought the idea behind red was that it caught your eye more than other colors, not that it made you thirstier.
Edit: Make that five reviews, with four showing a decisive ATi advantage. NH posted a 5900XT vs. 9600XT review with newer drivers that still shows both cards about even, with a 9800 far ahead. DriverHeaven has two differing results: one showing a 9600XT far outpacing a 5900XT, and another showing a 5950U about even with a 9800XT. I tend to trust DH less in terms of reviewer competence (some oversights in the former review, and no mention of the MP2 performance between the two reviews), but I can't really dismiss Veridian's results outright. Maybe he just used two very different sections of MP2.
Further Edit: Hmmm, just saw this link at NVN. A 5700U is fairly close to a 9600XT there, again using FRAPS. I don't know what to think, particularly since I don't know what drivers were used for the 5700U (the most current set used in the other reviews was 53.xx, IIRC). Hopefully Brent will bench MP2 in his upcoming 5950U vs. 9800XT review using the latest Forceware set, and we can see if newer nV drivers (significantly) upped performance.
Still, it's possible that, at your settings, your 5950 may look better than your 9800P did. What resolution are you playing at, with what level of filtering (AA & aniso), and did you use the same settings with both cards? Maybe MP2 has an "extra high res" textures mode for 256MB cards?
OT: I thought the idea behind red was that it caught your eye more than other colors, not that it made you thirstier.
Edit: Make that five reviews, with four showing a decisive ATi advantage. NH posted a 5900XT vs. 9600XT review with newer drivers that still shows both cards about even, with a 9800 far ahead. DriverHeaven has two differing results: one showing a 9600XT far outpacing a 5900XT, and another showing a 5950U about even with a 9800XT. I tend to trust DH less in terms of reviewer competence (some oversights in the former review, and no mention of the MP2 performance between the two reviews), but I can't really dismiss Veridian's results outright. Maybe he just used two very different sections of MP2.
Further Edit: Hmmm, just saw this link at NVN. A 5700U is fairly close to a 9600XT there, again using FRAPS. I don't know what to think, particularly since I don't know what drivers were used for the 5700U (the most current set used in the other reviews was 53.xx, IIRC). Hopefully Brent will bench MP2 in his upcoming 5950U vs. 9800XT review using the latest Forceware set, and we can see if newer nV drivers (significantly) upped performance.
How exactly have I displayed immaturity? All I did was say how better it looked and how much faster it played. For settings I used 1280x1024 w/ no AA and 8xAF on both cards and I could careless about your reviews you just wasted time.
there's ANOTHER immature post.. directed at a guy who's probably about as objective as anyone here. you sure won't get much credibility with those type of responses.
Seriously, your reply was as good an example of immaturity as any of your posts, PCT5. Are you young or just rude?
As long as I'm complaining, let me ask you to try to reduce the number of lines in your sig. Do you really need 11 lines to tell us your PC config? Can't you reduce it to three line breaks (one following your PC config, your 3DM scores, and your Heat)?
As long as I'm complaining, let me ask you to try to reduce the number of lines in your sig. Do you really need 11 lines to tell us your PC config? Can't you reduce it to three line breaks (one following your PC config, your 3DM scores, and your Heat)?
I can understand some of PCTweakers frustration. He buys a new high end card, and he gets told "I hope you got a good deal because the value is dropping fast" and "Your card gets stomped by 9800 Pros".
ATI is turning into a fricking cult like 3dfx was, people hammering away about little differences in AA quality and framerates for effects that make both cards too slow. It's pretty sad.
ATI is turning into a fricking cult like 3dfx was, people hammering away about little differences in AA quality and framerates for effects that make both cards too slow. It's pretty sad.
I am nowhere near as rude as many of the people (like you) that post here. And those "immature" comments are just my way of fighting back, while that may not be the best thing to do its the ones who start the fights that take the credit on being immature.
Rollo, I guess the truth hurts sometimes, no? Both of your quotes seem to be valid statements, and I'm not sure how his striking out at every other reply as that of a "fanboy" is in any way justified. If he's got the money, then I don't think suggestions from a free message board should make any difference. If he's counting on his investment lasting a long time, no doubt it will, albeit at perhaps a lower IQ than a comparable ATi card. But it just doesn't seem wise to pay $380 now, considering much faster cards are due out in a matter of weeks. I'm not talking a little bit faster, but both ATi and nV are bandying about "at least 2x faster" in newer games, where the 5950U and 9800P could use the extra speed.
PCT5, can you point out where I was rude to you, let alone anyone else?
PCT5, can you point out where I was rude to you, let alone anyone else?
Don't you think PCT should have atleast known a few simple facts about MP2 and even glanced at benchmarks on any site before asking a question on an online forum, which would probably take more time and be more frustrating to get straight answers then just doing everything himself? And saying the opposite of what the simple facts, benchmarks and pictures say isn't really helping his credibility, especially after making other posts just like this one
You are unaware of the situation I was in which led me to the purchasing the 5950 Ultra. I was not going to wait more than a month without a computer just so I could get some probably mid-ranged card from Nvidia. If you cant see past your assholish remarks then thats your problem and I dont care if you continue to act "mature" Im not going to keep arguing about this. You guys just cant believe that the real world gameplay of ATI can be beat.
I guess it was somewhat rude of me to doubt you right off the bat, considering your OP was reasonable. I apologize for my condescending initial post. But your subsequent "fanboy" name-calling led me to assume I was dealing with PEBCAK rather than a reproducible advantage for nVidia, given the majority of other benchmarks. When you said I wasted my time posting benchmarks, I guess I should have realized you didn't really want a discussion, just agreement. Well, I'm sure you can get all the unthinking pats on the back you need. When you want to find out why your 5950U so outperformed your 9800P, rather than just pretending to, let me know.
And I was and am aware you needed a card quickly, as I posted in your "help, quick!" thread. I still don't think it was wise to pay $380 for the 5950U, rather than $160-180 for a 5900XT that you could sell for a smaller loss to upgrade to an NV40 (particularly since you're playing at only 12x10 and without AA, where the extra 128MB of memory is virtually useless).
And I was and am aware you needed a card quickly, as I posted in your "help, quick!" thread. I still don't think it was wise to pay $380 for the 5950U, rather than $160-180 for a 5900XT that you could sell for a smaller loss to upgrade to an NV40 (particularly since you're playing at only 12x10 and without AA, where the extra 128MB of memory is virtually useless).
The truth runs roughshod over me daily Pete.
That's why I cancelled my order on the 5900U and opted to stick it out with the 9800Pro. Hopefully ATI and nVidia pull off April launches so we can compare.
PCTweaker5 -
I am not sure if you are aware of this, but the term "fanboy" implies that a person believes in a certain technology blindly, a groundless belief in a technology that is not based in facts. Having said that, your tirades about NVIDIA being superior to ATI are, in fact, baseless (thus making YOU a fanboy)... especially since more than one user has posted factual data showing that in most cases the 5950 downright sucks... and in a certain review approaches closely in performance of the 9800. Therefore, at worst the 5950 performs like a 9600XT in Max Payne2 and at best it performs ON PAR with the 9800. If you cannot accept these Facts, then YOU are the fanboy.
I am not sure if you are aware of this, but the term "fanboy" implies that a person believes in a certain technology blindly, a groundless belief in a technology that is not based in facts. Having said that, your tirades about NVIDIA being superior to ATI are, in fact, baseless (thus making YOU a fanboy)... especially since more than one user has posted factual data showing that in most cases the 5950 downright sucks... and in a certain review approaches closely in performance of the 9800. Therefore, at worst the 5950 performs like a 9600XT in Max Payne2 and at best it performs ON PAR with the 9800. If you cannot accept these Facts, then YOU are the fanboy.
Never have I said Nvidia was superior to ATI, I just talked about my experience with a certain game with both brands of cards. As for being a fanboy, I dont really consider myself one I just prefer stability over performance. I dont brag to anyone how good Nvidia is or isnt, I just tell people about my experiences and opinions. So it seems as though all of you guys are the ATI fanboys by jumping so quick to bite my head off just because I said my 5950 Ultra plays MP2 better than my 9800 Pro which indeed it did and still does.
Ahem... again, the review with MP2 is running AA+AF, the 5950 probably is faster without AA+AF enabled...
Some blind people in here?
Some blind people in here?
Not to mention that whole review is Kyle gunning for "can nVIDIAs Det50 drivers magically make it faster than ATi in our specifically tailored benchmarks running insane levels of AA+AF" methodology. Hes gunning for nVIDIA in the entire review which is very clear
Yeah, MaxPayne2 was fun for the whole 5 hours it took to beat it. It looked good on a GF4 but was so lame that my 9800Pro will never see it.
MaxPayne2 was not exactly a videocard torture test. LOL
MaxPayne2 was not exactly a videocard torture test. LOL
Just like to point out that the NH(DH is a joke, they show what they want to show as you pointed out) review you linked to has one of the boards we are looking at just under 80FPS with the other just over 90FPS, a ~10FPS difference running 12x10x4x8- not exactly enormous and a more demanding setting then what he was using(where the 5950 should be able to perform closer to the R9800Pro). Also- it isn't unthinkable that the 256MB parts are using higher quality textures then the 128MB parts, Remedy has made it very clear that MP2 should not be used as a benchmark because of how many things it changes from board to board(although I didn't see them explicitly state different texture levels, it wouldn't shock me). Then you have the fact that he was running with 8x AF and nVidia still has an edge there in terms of quality.
Acanthus, you call 55fps in a single player game on a $350 board "insane?" That's a respectable score at that setting, it just so happens that ATi scores better. If the 5950U was getting 30fps, then I'd question what Brent was thinking benching at that setting.
Ben, OK, but that last review I linked showed a 9600XT 25% faster than a 5700U at 12x10 no AF. I haven't seen nV take a smaller hit with AF yet (THG's VGA Charts III shows Radeon far in front of FXs with AF), so I'm going to assume ATi maintains (and possibly even lengthens) its lead with AF. I'm just surprised by PCT's claim that his 5950U not just looks but plays better than his 9800P, given the evidence against it.
Again, the IQ improvement may just be down to higher-quality textures/filtering. Brent's first two screenshots do show some differences in the reflections. The car reflection near Max is sort of brighter in the first shot, and the pipes are shinier/use higher-res textures in the first two shots. It's almost as if the 9800P is AA'ing or otherwise filtering those reflections and the 5950U isn't, though it's hard to tell from a static screenshot. It's probably more likely, however, that ATi's AF algorithm is using lower-res MIP-maps for the pipes (because of their "odd" angles). I don't see any differences in texture quality on his coat, though.
PCT's hiccups are also strange, given that he wasn't using AA, and MP2's highest texture setting appears to be just "High," not something like "Extra High." The better IQ is probably down to better AF, and possibly due to more texture memory, but the faster performance and lack of "hiccups" seems strange. Oh well, place this one in the unsolved bin for me. I don't doubt that MP2 looks and plays better for PCT on his 5950U, I just think that maybe there was something amiss with his 9800P to cause it to perform slower than his 5950U.
Ben, OK, but that last review I linked showed a 9600XT 25% faster than a 5700U at 12x10 no AF. I haven't seen nV take a smaller hit with AF yet (THG's VGA Charts III shows Radeon far in front of FXs with AF), so I'm going to assume ATi maintains (and possibly even lengthens) its lead with AF. I'm just surprised by PCT's claim that his 5950U not just looks but plays better than his 9800P, given the evidence against it.
Again, the IQ improvement may just be down to higher-quality textures/filtering. Brent's first two screenshots do show some differences in the reflections. The car reflection near Max is sort of brighter in the first shot, and the pipes are shinier/use higher-res textures in the first two shots. It's almost as if the 9800P is AA'ing or otherwise filtering those reflections and the 5950U isn't, though it's hard to tell from a static screenshot. It's probably more likely, however, that ATi's AF algorithm is using lower-res MIP-maps for the pipes (because of their "odd" angles). I don't see any differences in texture quality on his coat, though.
PCT's hiccups are also strange, given that he wasn't using AA, and MP2's highest texture setting appears to be just "High," not something like "Extra High." The better IQ is probably down to better AF, and possibly due to more texture memory, but the faster performance and lack of "hiccups" seems strange. Oh well, place this one in the unsolved bin for me. I don't doubt that MP2 looks and plays better for PCT on his 5950U, I just think that maybe there was something amiss with his 9800P to cause it to perform slower than his 5950U.
On the 9800 Pro it was fast and I loved it but on the 5950 Ultra it seems noticeably faster and nicer looking, thats all no biggie.
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