Massive nVidia nForce DDR chipset preview

[Eug]

<< Average motherboard now-120
GeForce 2 mx-------------80
TB Santa Cruz------------80
nic----------------------10
===========================
total--------------------290

nforce mobo--prolly under 200 >>



Hmmmm... If $199 US it's far too expensive. For the low-end market a US$80 integrated board is fine. For the mid-end market and up I'd say it has to stay below $150, and even then the presence of the Geforce2 MX level video for many of us here (not that we are the majority of the purchasers) is almost irrelevant, except that it makes the system cost more. This board with it's specs seems best suited for the lower mid-end non or very light gamer type, and hopefully the price will reflect that. Remember that right now, very few people on this forum ever even recommend buying a Geforce2 MX, because it is simply too slow. If aiming for the higher end, hopefully the added multimedia stuff would not make it too expensive. Price still matters in the higher end.

I am impressed by the specs, but like I said earlier, I reserve judgement at this time.

 

[GTaudiophile]

Think about it, though, for $200, you can barely get a retail GF2MX and SB Live!. If you add in on-board LAN and what not, it's certainly a deal!

 

[Eug]

I agree, I like the concept of the sound features, but the quality may or may not be Live! quality, depending on the mobo maker. And while the &quot;freebee&quot; Geforce2 MX is a nice bonus, I don't want to spend $25 more if I don't have to, because it's useless to me.

 

[Wingznut]

Actually Starcutter, no. I could've just as easily quoted the positive points of that article, but that was already done a few times over.

Everyone just seems to be noticing the good points about the board. I was surprised that particular quote didn't bother anyone. It's not too much different than when the Kyro2 preview came out. Everyone saw how it beat the GF2 Ultra in a couple spots, but nobody seemed to notice the negative parts of the write-up. Two months later, nobody is all that excited about the Kyro anymore.

 

[Alekz]

nForce GPU has less bandwidth than a TNT1?

The &quot;internal AGP 6X interface with 1.5GB/s bandwidth&quot; between GPU and SIA (Single Intelligent Arbiter) is cool, but isn't the traffic between GPU and RAM also through this interface? Even if it isn't, I assume that the frame buffer is not divided between the two memory banks, although textures might well be. That would mean another bottleneck, this time 2.1GB/s.
That fits in well with the claims of NVIDIA that nForce (with 128-bit memory) is 20-30% faster than the MX200, not twice as fast.

Some other peak bandwidths for comparison:
MX200: 1.33 GB/s
TNT1: 1.76 GB/s
Original GF2MX, MX400: 2.66 GB/s
TNT2 Ultra: 2.93 GB/s

BTW, AGP 6X would correspond to 1.6GB/s, not 1.5GB/s.

 

[Gstanfor]

<< Actually Starcutter, no. I could've just as easily quoted the positive points of that article, but that was already done a few times over.

Everyone just seems to be noticing the good points about the board. I was surprised that particular quote didn't bother anyone. It's not too much different than when the Kyro2 preview came out. Everyone saw how it beat the GF2 Ultra in a couple spots, but nobody seemed to notice the negative parts of the write-up. Two months later, nobody is all that excited about the Kyro anymore >>





<< Doesn't this part of AnandTech's article concern anyone?

&quot;Working samples were available to play with in private rooms at Computex; although we've been told performance and stability still need quite a bit of work, both in terms of motherboard and chipset designs.&quot;

This chipset does sound like it has some very good ideas going. I can see how it would make a good low-cost integrated solution. But most people here want top of the line, better than GTS graphics. Will the sound be better than the Santa Cruz. I would be shocked if it were.

But it's still much too early to be jumping on that bandwagon. Look how many members here are still reeling from the injuries related to leaping off the Kyro2 bandwagon.

4-layer PCB? That's not necessarily a good thing. Sure, it lowers the cost. But it can also potentially lower the stability.

Sure, I'm skeptical. But look at all the other &quot;previewed&quot; hardware that comes across these boards, only to be a letdown when they are actually mainstream >>



Okay Wingznut PEZ, you are determined to make this into an issue, I'll indulge you... you &quot;forgot&quot; to quote all the relevant information.


<< Apparently development of nForce boards has been quite rushed as we heard numerous times that designers started with essentially nothing about five weeks ago. Working samples were available to play with in private rooms at Computex; although we've been told performance and stability still need quite a bit of work, both in terms of motherboard and chipset designs. Fortunately, however, the word we're getting is that NVIDIA has been quite helpful in the design process and fully intends to have the boards be rock solid at the launch. >>



You may want to read the Inquest preview also - they had approx 200 hours to play with the boards and the only issue they came across (with the graphics) was fixed with a bios update.

What's wrong? Has the seating at Intel warmed up a degree or 3 lately?

Greg

 

[Wingznut]

&quot;What's wrong? Has the seating at Intel warmed up a degree or 3 lately?&quot;

Heh, no it's a comfortable 72F in the Fab... As always.

But it's very typical of you (and no surprise) that you can't separate Wingznut The Computer Enthusiast vs Wingznut The Intel Employee. I was a enthusiast (and AT forum member) long before I got the job at Intel.

 

[Mookow]

<<
Heh, no it's a comfortable 72F in the Fab... As always.
>>


LOL

 

[Nelmster]

Gstanfor, please don't lower your reputation by making this personal. This was a wonderful, objective discussion until you threw that comment in. If, perhaps, it was a joke (without an emoticon), then I retract my statement and apologize.

 

[greenehorn]

I don't think there's any way this board comes in under $200. Certainly not at the launch. It might get down to $200 by Christmas. Think about it from Joe Public's perspective. All he needs is this mobo, a chip, ram, a hard drive and CD, and he's golden. Like it or not, they aren't going to price this sucker for those of us who don't NEED the video and such. They'll charge for what's on there because most people will need it. These boards would be making the OEMs (Dell, Compaq, etc.) drool more than us, if it weren't for the crappy economic situation they're in.

Tweakers like us will build boxes with this once for ourselves, and then for our parents and non-techie friends.

 

[Eug]

<< Think about it from Joe Public's perspective. All he needs is this mobo, a chip, ram, a hard drive and CD, and he's golden. Like it or not, they aren't going to price this sucker for those of us who don't NEED the video and such. They'll charge for what's on there because most people will need it. These boards would be making the OEMs (Dell, Compaq, etc.) drool more than us, if it weren't for the crappy economic situation they're in. >>

Like I said before, from Joe Public's perspective, it should be under US$100 because perfectly functional and stable solutions are available with both video and sound for $70 right now. The 3D video sucks in comparison to the even the MX200, but that's not of concern to 90% of the Joe (or Jill) Publics. I highly doubt it will be under $100, but I suspect things will be problematic for this chipset if the motherboards launch at much higher than $200.

 

[Akaz1976]

<< . Look how many members here are still reeling from the injuries related to leaping off the Kyro2 bandwagon. >>



From what i have read people are pretty satisfied with Kyro2! Its a good speed card which beats Ultra in couple of areas/benchmarks only. for a card thats half or a third the price of ultra thats not too bad. I havent really seen kyro 2 owners going on saying 'what a piece of crap i just bought'. mostly i have read that it blows every thing in its price class away and more!!

but then again i could be wrong, just my 2 cents

Akaz

 

[Wingznut]

I'm sorry, I didn't mean that people were unhappy about it. Or that it's not a good card.

I just remember how many people were so very excited about it one week, and the next week some shortcomings came to light, and everyone jumped off the bandwagon.

 

[Akaz1976]

heh,

i guess people who thought they could chuck $300 Ultra and get same performance from $150 Kyro2 were a little disappointed



Akaz

 

[Wingznut]

Heh, yeah that's pretty much the group that I was referring to.

 

[bluemax]

My friend inside nVidia who's directly related to sending out evaluation products has spoken to me. I'm not under any non-disclosure but I didn't learn much new. Here's what I know:

1) It's not released yet, still classified as &quot;under development&quot; so no review boards are going out to anyone.
2) I'll be getting one when it does.
3) You guys'll get a review.
4) You'll be happy!

 

[BD2003]

Does it have tv-out? If it does, I'm selling my dvd player.

 

[Remnant2]

What I do find curious about it is all the people here saying &quot;this might be ok for a low end solution&quot; ..

Do those people read the articles? The whole point is that this (at least so far) looks to be an integrated board that is designed for the high end. Who gives a crap about the onboard video -- most of us will disable it -- what I care about is the chipset functionality that holds the promise to be a vastly better performer than the other DDR chipsets on the market.

There were some stream scores posted at one of the other review sites. In the stream copy64 bandwidth tests, the dual channel DDR board got within long spitting distance of the P4's scores -- something I never, ever, thought I would see.


edit: the test referred to is here

 

[pidge]

NVIDIA has included the video presentation on their website. You can view it from:

nForce

 

[Eug]

<< Do those people read the articles? The whole point is that this (at least so far) looks to be an integrated board that is designed for the high end. >>

MMM... maybe, maybe not. My guess is that nVidia is going for the one size fits all chipset. High end AND low end, and that can be left up to the motherboard manufacturer. However, my argument is that so far it's just hype. Exciting hype, but hype nonetheless.

The question however is it's suitability for the various markets. Is the design good for the low end? Probably not, at least initially, due to cost considerations unless nVidia pursues pricing aggressively. Mid end? Maybe. High end? Maybe.

We shall see.

In fact, I hope nVidia succeeds. I want to upgrade my computer by the time the New Year rolls around.

 

[Degenerate]

i believe the high end will not have the on board grapgics.

 

[Valinos]

SiS735 here. I could care less about integrated video and sound. I have a Geforce2MX in my other comp, and I'm not very impressed compared to my GTS in this one. As for sound, unless nVidia can make something that sounds as good or better than the SB Live! or Game Theate I won't get it.

 

[theplanb]

As for me, this is THE chipset I want.
I'm using.. 1meg video and have never played a 3d game..
I got no sound because my old SB16 went nuts.
Have cable, but need a modem for some other purpose.
Want a dvd and tv-out. Now I'm not sure nforce will have them.