Massive dips in transfer rate on Seagate HD

vj8usa

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Dec 19, 2005
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I've had this hard drive (250GB 7200.9) for over 2.5 years now, and started to notice that my load times in games were annoyingly long. I ran HD Tune, and this was my result. It starts off reasonably fast (65MB/s) but it constantly dips wayy down.

Is this just because my drive is aging, or is there something I can do to fix it? I reformatted a few weeks ago, and I'm currently using about half of the drive.
 

SunnyD

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Jan 2, 2001
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That definitely looks like block remaps, and a lot of them. My guess is that it's mostly due to age. That reminds me, I need to check my drives (2x 7200.8's).
 

Yellowbeard

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Sep 9, 2003
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I have no idea if it would help but you could also blow away the partition and also use the SeaTools to "zero" the drive.
 

Fallen Kell

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Originally posted by: Yellowbeard
I have no idea if it would help but you could also blow away the partition and also use the SeaTools to "zero" the drive.

Or if you run linux, just use "dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/<whatever your hard drive is, sda, sdb, etc., etc.,>" That will blow away the MBR, partition tables, and do a low level zero fill to the entire disk. You can then re-partition the disk and make new filesystem(s). I recommend using something like the "System Rescue" linux distribution (which runs from a CD).
 

SunnyD

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Originally posted by: Fallen Kell
Originally posted by: Yellowbeard
I have no idea if it would help but you could also blow away the partition and also use the SeaTools to "zero" the drive.

Or if you run linux, just use "dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/<whatever your hard drive is, sda, sdb, etc., etc.,>" That will blow away the MBR, partition tables, and do a low level zero fill to the entire disk. You can then re-partition the disk and make new filesystem(s). I recommend using something like the "System Rescue" linux distribution (which runs from a CD).

That will only do a block level format of the drive, not a full low-level format. Basically it won't handle any sort of sector remaps the drive hardware has done already. The only way to do a true low-level format as far as I know is possibly through the drive diagnostic software, and even that may be possible. Generally once a drive starts remapping sectors, the drive is doing it for a reason.
 

vj8usa

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Dec 19, 2005
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Originally posted by: SunnyD
That will only do a block level format of the drive, not a full low-level format. Basically it won't handle any sort of sector remaps the drive hardware has done already. The only way to do a true low-level format as far as I know is possibly through the drive diagnostic software, and even that may be possible. Generally once a drive starts remapping sectors, the drive is doing it for a reason.

Ah, thanks. I take it there's no way to fix this then? Also, what do you mean by block remapping, and why does this happen?
 

Quiksilver

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Jul 3, 2005
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I suggest trying using dBan and letting it do it's default hard drive wipe (I forgot what it was called), it takes about 4 hours for me at least. Then giving it another re-install of your OS and app's and see if it helps.

Also just for something to compare it to, I got a 250GB Seagate as well, but it's a 7200.8; still better than nothing to compare it too.
http://i34.tinypic.com/30c6hc9.jpg
 

SunnyD

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Jan 2, 2001
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Originally posted by: vj8usa
Originally posted by: SunnyD
That will only do a block level format of the drive, not a full low-level format. Basically it won't handle any sort of sector remaps the drive hardware has done already. The only way to do a true low-level format as far as I know is possibly through the drive diagnostic software, and even that may be possible. Generally once a drive starts remapping sectors, the drive is doing it for a reason.

Ah, thanks. I take it there's no way to fix this then? Also, what do you mean by block remapping, and why does this happen?

All hard drives now have internal mechanisms to detect and compensate for errors on the drive media. This is particularly true of IDE and IDE-derived (SATA) hardware (which most modern "consumer" SCSI drives are actually IDE drives with a SCSI<->IDE interface on them). A drive's physical capacity is generally 10-20% more than its specified capacity, specifically for the reasons of fault tolerance and remapping.

This hardware based fault tolerance is handled by the drive itself, and there is absolutely no way outside of the factory to override this - read: there is NO Windows/*nix program that can truly "low-level" format a drive the way the factory does it. What happens is when the drive encounters a weak or bad physical sector on a disk, it makes note of this and verifies that this particular sector on the disk is weak and/or bad, and then remaps that particular location to the "spare" area on the disk. Since Windows/*nix/Whatever OS generally access the disk through a block device driver, the OS is oblivious to the change because the OS doesn't access the drive on a physical level.

Crude diagram alert:

Physical disk "sectors": 1-->2-->3-->4-->5-->.......(N-1)-->(N)-->(N+1)-->(N+2)-->etc.
OS disk LBA sectors : 1-->2-->3-->4-->5-->.......(N-1) (end of disk)

On the physical disk, (N) is the start of the "spare" area left over for error corrections by the disk hardware. The OS never sees this area. It's not a true 1 to 1 mapping, but for simplicity's sake let's assume that the OS sectors match up with the physical disk sectors. All of a sudden the drive hardware sees that physical sector 3 is going bad, so what it does is that it makes a copy of the data (if possible) from sector 3 and copies it to the first available spare area sector, in this case (N), and updates the chain accordingly.

The physical disk now looks like:
1-->2-->(N)-->4-->5-->.......(N-1)-->(N+1)-->(N+2)-->etc.

The OS on the other hand still looks the same, because the LBA sector is really just a translation done by the drive hardware, so when the OS calls sector 3, the drive looks up where sector 3 is in the chain and it just so happens to point to (N) now, so it seeks to (N), reads the data, gives it to the OS, and the OS is non-the-wiser. The key is that the OS never ever knows what's going on behind the scenes, and there's absolutely no way outside of the factory to "fix" this issue. All you know is that the drive itself is trying to maintain your data integrity as best as possible. Once a drive flags a sector as bad and remaps it, there's no getting it back.
 

vj8usa

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Dec 19, 2005
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Thanks for the explanation, SunnyD. That was very informative.

Quiksilver: Wow, your 7200.8's holding up significantly better than my 7200.9 is. Maybe I got unlucky with my drive. At any rate, I guess I should start saving for a new HD.
 

SunnyD

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Originally posted by: vj8usa
Thanks for the explanation, SunnyD. That was very informative.

Quiksilver: Wow, your 7200.8's holding up significantly better than my 7200.9 is. Maybe I got unlucky with my drive. At any rate, I guess I should start saving for a new HD.

I wouldn't say that - I've been having intermittent issues with the drives, one of them has been randomly disconnecting from the bus, and I can't figure out which one. When it happens, I can't do any diagnostics at all as it takes the whole system with it. Then again, it may be the new motherboard at fault.

In any event, I ran HDTune on my primary drive (the one I think is okay) and I had a drop from about 68MB/sec all the way down to 6MB/sec, just about falling through the floor. Ironically, I ran the test again the next day, and it flattened out significantly for some reason. I'll put up a screenshot of the original test as soon as I'm done formatting the second drive.