Mass Effects vs. Lost Odyssey

[oznerol]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: ducci
Japanese RPGs are a dying breed. Get used to the Oblivion/Mass Effect style of game - they are here to stay.

That is not true at all. There is still tons of money to be made if JRPGs. The numbers are proving themselves. You need to realize that despite the differences in current popularity, both of these styles of RPGs have huge fan bases. The popularity also differs a whole lot depending on what part of the world we are talking.

Outside of Japan, find me a recent, non-Final Fantasy, traditional JRPG that has been both a critical and commercial success.

The western video game market is growing. Those looking for a more traditional RPG experience seem to be turning to MMORPGs. Microsoft is desperately trying to gain interest in the Japanese market with Final Fantasy clones (Lost Odyssey), but it's really all on Sony to breathe life back into the JRPG market. And outside of Japan, I just don't see it happening.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: ducci

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: ducci
Japanese RPGs are a dying breed. Get used to the Oblivion/Mass Effect style of game - they are here to stay.

That is not true at all. There is still tons of money to be made if JRPGs. The numbers are proving themselves. You need to realize that despite the differences in current popularity, both of these styles of RPGs have huge fan bases. The popularity also differs a whole lot depending on what part of the world we are talking.

Outside of Japan, find me a recent, non-Final Fantasy, traditional JRPG that has been both a critical and commercial success.

The western video game market is growing. Those looking for a more traditional RPG experience seem to be turning to MMORPGs. Microsoft is desperately trying to gain interest in the Japanese market with Final Fantasy clones (Lost Odyssey), but it's really all on Sony to breathe life back into the JRPG market. And outside of Japan, I just don't see it happening.

You can't just dismiss Japan or any part of the world for that matter when it comes to the success of a game. Money is money no matter how you slice it. If people will buy, then there will be those that will sell. JRPGs including LO are selling "well enough" in the US.

 

[oznerol]

Originally posted by: Xavier434
You can't just dismiss Japan or any part of the world for that matter when it comes to the success of a game. Money is money no matter how you slice it. If people will buy, then there will be those that will sell. JRPGs including LO are selling "well enough" in the US.

Well I'm not dismissing Japan. But "marketability" is why games are made. Japan has a fair share of RPGs which will never see the light of day in the states - and for good reason - they won't sell.

This is why there's such a large number of Halo clones. The western market demands sci-fi FPS's.

Even Mass Effect, a successful modern RPG, fits the mold. And if it isn't a sci-fi shooter, it's a Warcraft-like, dungeons and dragons fairy tale, ala Oblivion.

I can see you're a fan of the traditional RPG - I used to be as well. But the times they are a-changin'.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: ducci

Originally posted by: Xavier434
You can't just dismiss Japan or any part of the world for that matter when it comes to the success of a game. Money is money no matter how you slice it. If people will buy, then there will be those that will sell. JRPGs including LO are selling "well enough" in the US.

Well I'm not dismissing Japan. But "marketability" is why games are made. Japan has a fair share of RPGs which will never see the light of day in the states - and for good reason - they won't sell.

This is why there's such a large number of Halo clones. The western market demands sci-fi FPS's.

Even Mass Effect, a successful modern RPG, fits the mold. And if it isn't a sci-fi shooter, it's a Warcraft-like, dungeons and dragons fairy tale, ala Oblivion.

I can see you're a fan of the traditional RPG - I used to be as well. But the times they are a-changin'.

Ok, that doesn't mean JRPGs are a dieing though. It just means there are genres in the states which happen to make more money than most JRPGs. You don't need to be in the top 10 in order to make a profit.

 

[oznerol]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: ducci

Originally posted by: Xavier434
You can't just dismiss Japan or any part of the world for that matter when it comes to the success of a game. Money is money no matter how you slice it. If people will buy, then there will be those that will sell. JRPGs including LO are selling "well enough" in the US.

Well I'm not dismissing Japan. But "marketability" is why games are made. Japan has a fair share of RPGs which will never see the light of day in the states - and for good reason - they won't sell.

This is why there's such a large number of Halo clones. The western market demands sci-fi FPS's.

Even Mass Effect, a successful modern RPG, fits the mold. And if it isn't a sci-fi shooter, it's a Warcraft-like, dungeons and dragons fairy tale, ala Oblivion.

I can see you're a fan of the traditional RPG - I used to be as well. But the times they are a-changin'.

Ok, that doesn't mean JRPGs are a dieing though. It just means there are genres in the states which happen to make more money than most JRPGs. You don't need to be in the top 10 in order to make a profit.

Yes, you do.

And I would say that is the definition of a dying genre. It is far past its SNES/PSX/PS2 prime. Less games of its type are being made, and the ones that are aren't doing as well as their western competitors.

Once we see a Square game being made with a space marine shooting a plasma rifle, we will know the end has come.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: ducci

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: ducci

Originally posted by: Xavier434
You can't just dismiss Japan or any part of the world for that matter when it comes to the success of a game. Money is money no matter how you slice it. If people will buy, then there will be those that will sell. JRPGs including LO are selling "well enough" in the US.

Well I'm not dismissing Japan. But "marketability" is why games are made. Japan has a fair share of RPGs which will never see the light of day in the states - and for good reason - they won't sell.

This is why there's such a large number of Halo clones. The western market demands sci-fi FPS's.

Even Mass Effect, a successful modern RPG, fits the mold. And if it isn't a sci-fi shooter, it's a Warcraft-like, dungeons and dragons fairy tale, ala Oblivion.

I can see you're a fan of the traditional RPG - I used to be as well. But the times they are a-changin'.

Ok, that doesn't mean JRPGs are a dieing though. It just means there are genres in the states which happen to make more money than most JRPGs. You don't need to be in the top 10 in order to make a profit.

Yes, you do.

And I would say that is the definition of a dying genre. It is far past its SNES/PSX/PS2 prime. Less games of its type are being made, and the ones that are aren't doing as well as their western competitors.

Once we see a Square game being made with a space marine shooting a plasma rifle, we will know the end has come.

Well, then we can agree to disagree. Numbers do not lie. Profit is profit no matter how you slice it. If you want some material to work with then Google LO's sales up to this point. It is doing just fine. It is definitely doing well enough for future releases of quality JRPGs in the US.

 

[bigpow]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: bigpow

Originally posted by: warcrow

Originally posted by: bigpow
I heard LO battle animation is long and can't be skipped - that's the only thing preventing me from getting it.
ME on the other hand, is too linear - all the discussions and choices you make, won't affect the way the game is progressing.

Which RPG have you played?
I think you'd be able to decide based on your past experience.

For me, I've played Oblivion, Blue Dragon, & Eternal Sonata.
Blue Dragon was the best IMO. True classic and complete JRPG.

Heh--wait a second:

What exactly are you referring to when you say "battle animation". As in, when they perform the move you've selected, or are you refering to the winning battle animations/ wrap up? The wrap up takes maybe 4-5 seconds, and that includes the loot screens and such. Are you really that pressed for time?

So ME is linear? Define "linear" please. I've played through the game twice. Once as a good guy (Paragon) and again as an evil guy (Renegade). I would hardly define both experiences as linear. I had many many situations between the two play-throughs that had completely different outcomes and effects, especially including the ending--it was far from linear. Also, the discussions and choices you make "dont effect the outcome"? What? Have you even played the game?

The end portion of the game itself has two sequences where you make choices and the choices that become available to you are completely dependent on what you have done up to that point. There are 3 or 4 endings (not sure on how many but I know there is multiple and atleast two).

warcrow, I'm about to find out for myself.
I never said I played the game, I only said "I heard ..."

But thanks to your argument, I've purchased the game.
Hopefully it won't dissappoint.
Now my question to you, have you played any other RPG games (such as those I mentioned)? Maybe you would be kind enough to give a short comparison review.

LO is next on my list, I sure hope you guys know your RPG.
I'm always up to the challenge of "tasting" new RPG games.

The sooner everyone stops comparing Action RPGs to JRPGs the better. The two genres offer such different kinds of gaming experiences that I believe the only real thing they have in common is that they are both listed as "RPGs". When it comes to the comparison of LO and ME particularly, if your goal when it comes to the comparison is to figure out which you will like more then you are going about it the wrong way. Instead, compare you past experiences with KOTOR and any one of the better FF games. The comparison between those experiences will provide you with a much better estimation about which game you will enjoy more. Getting advise over the internet is ok, but keep in mind that JRPGs and Action RPGs tend to attract very different audiences so you will be gettign a ton of biased opinions. You are better off using the net to gather facts about the games such as how the battle system and character progression systems work than you are using it to gather opinions about "quality".

I thought that was exactly what I said?
Anyway, I enjoy both J-RPG and US-RPG genre. I agree that they're two different genre that fits into one RPG mold.

That aside, I'm going to find out the old fashion way - just bought LO as well.
I'll keep what I like and I'll sell what I don't. Simple.

warcrow, you still owe me your review of Blue Dragon and Eternal Sonata 😀

Sadly, this doesn't answer OP's original question.

 

[pmark]

Sadly, this doesn't answer OP's original question.

Heeheehee, you're right, but I have been enjoying this discussion. It's a very hard decision when I only have time for one of them!

 

[warcrow]

Originally posted by: bigpowI thought that was exactly what I said?
Anyway, I enjoy both J-RPG and US-RPG genre. I agree that they're two different genre that fits into one RPG mold.

That aside, I'm going to find out the old fashion way - just bought LO as well.
I'll keep what I like and I'll sell what I don't. Simple.

warcrow, you still owe me your review of Blue Dragon and Eternal Sonata 😀

Sadly, this doesn't answer OP's original question.

Eternal Sonata is still in my pile of shame and needs to be played. I did pop it in to check out the visuals first hand and they certainly are impressive, but my experience ended there.

BD was great! I really liked the game despite it's slow moving start and featuring one of the most annoying characters in the history of gaming--Marumaro (he kinda grows on you to the point of tollerance though). It pales in comparison to LO overall, in my opinion, as I just prefer the more mature, serious tone of the story. The gameplay in LO is just more interesting too.

More info here: http://playedpodcast.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1188486195
and here towards the end of the podcast: http://www.playedpodcast.com/2...-28/played-episode-30/

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: pmark

Sadly, this doesn't answer OP's original question.

Heeheehee, you're right, but I have been enjoying this discussion. It's a very hard decision when I only have time for one of them!

Actually, I think it kind of does answer the question. The answer is that there is no direct answer. It is too difficult to fairly compare the two games because they are so different from each other yet both are so very well done at the same time. Beyond that knowledge, it is simply a matter of either choosing the one which is more like the RPGs you have enjoyed playing in the past or just saying the hell with it and buy both. 😀

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: warcrow
Eternal Sonata is still in my pile of shame and needs to be played. I did pop it in to check out the visuals first hand and they certainly are impressive, but my experience ended there.

I hate, hate, hate the battle camera in Eternal Sonata.

Sadly, it is in my very large pile of shame as well :laugh:.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: warcrow
BD was great! I really liked the game despite it's slow moving start and featuring one of the most annoying characters in the history of gaming--Marumaro (he kinda grows on you to the point of tollerance though). It pales in comparison to LO overall, in my opinion, as I just prefer the more mature, serious tone of the story. The gameplay in LO is just more interesting too.

I've gotten about 10 hours into BD since picking it up at Target on clearance. You're right about the slow moving start. I wanted to poke my eyes out when a dozen or so Mecha-Robos suddenly pop out right after you get your Shadows and you're trying to escape. Yeah, it was cool to see your Shadow decimate a Mecha-Robo in one swipe the first couple times but then it just got to be a chore after that.

Now that I've added Marumaro to my group, the plot seems to finally be moving along at a decent pace with more interesting battles. I think the flamingly gay sidekick at the start of Enchanted Arms was far more annoying than Marumaro though.

 

[warcrow]

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: warcrow
BD was great! I really liked the game despite it's slow moving start and featuring one of the most annoying characters in the history of gaming--Marumaro (he kinda grows on you to the point of tollerance though). It pales in comparison to LO overall, in my opinion, as I just prefer the more mature, serious tone of the story. The gameplay in LO is just more interesting too.

I've gotten about 10 hours into BD since picking it up at Target on clearance. You're right about the slow moving start. I wanted to poke my eyes out when a dozen or so Mecha-Robos suddenly pop out right after you get your Shadows and you're trying to escape. Yeah, it was cool to see your Shadow decimate a Mecha-Robo in one swipe the first couple times but then it just got to be a chore after that.

Now that I've added Marumaro to my group, the plot seems to finally be moving along at a decent pace with more interesting battles. I think the flamingly gay sidekick at the start of Enchanted Arms was far more annoying than Marumaro though.

Sounds like Enchanted Arms was a good miss for me. 🙂

The game gets better and better and eventually pays off in the end, so stick with it if you can. I like the fact that you can see the monsters on the battlefield and can choose how to attack them (protip: go out of your way to get as much XP as possible to avoid frustration later on). After playing LO, I look back on the game and really appreciate the frame rate.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: warcrow

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: warcrow
BD was great! I really liked the game despite it's slow moving start and featuring one of the most annoying characters in the history of gaming--Marumaro (he kinda grows on you to the point of tollerance though). It pales in comparison to LO overall, in my opinion, as I just prefer the more mature, serious tone of the story. The gameplay in LO is just more interesting too.

I've gotten about 10 hours into BD since picking it up at Target on clearance. You're right about the slow moving start. I wanted to poke my eyes out when a dozen or so Mecha-Robos suddenly pop out right after you get your Shadows and you're trying to escape. Yeah, it was cool to see your Shadow decimate a Mecha-Robo in one swipe the first couple times but then it just got to be a chore after that.

Now that I've added Marumaro to my group, the plot seems to finally be moving along at a decent pace with more interesting battles. I think the flamingly gay sidekick at the start of Enchanted Arms was far more annoying than Marumaro though.

Sounds like Enchanted Arms was a good miss for me. 🙂

The game gets better and better and eventually pays off in the end, so stick with it if you can. I like the fact that you can see the monsters on the battlefield and can choose how to attack them (protip: go out of your way to get as much XP as possible to avoid frustration later on). After playing LO, I look back on the game and really appreciate the frame rate.

Yeah, it was kind of meh. I thought the use of Golems kind of like Pokemon was interesting but the story was meh, getting past the first part of the story was a PITA especially with the annoying sidekick (who thankfully dies off) and then the random encounters every 5 seconds turned me off.

I'm getting into almost every fight I can in Blue Dragon so I can build my XP for pretty much the reason you stated.

Funnily, my son started playing BD and he somehow made it from the part where you crash the airship at the beginning to the boss fight with the Dinoram while barely getting into any fights! He came to me for help and I saw that his character levels were really low and he had somehow set them all to the same skill type as Shu. He couldn't even touch the Dinoram. :laugh: I had to sit down with him for a while and show him how to play.

 

[bigpow]

Forgot about Enchanted Arms.. 🙂
Yeah, I didn't like that one, only played to see the ending. Final boss fight was super long (even longer than FF-X, believe it or not).

BD is awesome, it's a "whole" game IMO.
I put around 120hours total, to get all players to lv-99 and all shadows to max.