Hey Gonad, if time is that precious to you, maybe it would be better spent elsewhere. I would go on to explain what I meant (seeing as you must have misunderstood) but I'm not going to bother unless you can free up some time in your busy schedule to listen. Otherwise it becomes a waste of my time as well.
<< My answer to your question is that history has shown that good usually wins out over bad. We are one country, indivisible (or so they taught me in school), and if half the country is exploiting human life it's up to the other half to set them straight. Laws are not the ultimate authority. If breaking some to ensure that freedom for all people is guaranteed, then it's well worth it.
Say England would have been able to retain the US as part of the Empire? For one, there would never have been a WWII. A British Superpower might have gotten into WWI. but then would have devastated their foes and brought lasting peace to Europe. Once the traitors were dispatched, those who were now in charge in the Colonies would have praised being British. After the parlimentary reforms, people would say how a revolution in the Colonies was such a waste. It was, after all, about money. The rich wanting to not pay taxes. No British textbook would tell the tale of Liberty that we learn in school The victor would write the history. Such as happened to the glorious South.
Because some good comes out of evil doesn't make the evil less repugnant. The 50,000 non-coms who died during Sherman's "March to the Sea" would cry against the policy of Total War that has been the US standard since. Prior to this point we did not wage war against women and children.
Sherman wrote his wife in 1862 that it would take the "extermination, not only of soldiers alone, that is the least of the troubles, but the people ..."
And to Secretary of War Stanton, on June 21, 1864, Sherman wrote, "There is a class of people, men, women and children, who must be killed or banished before you can keep peace and order."
I was taught these things in school as a child. My grandchildren are being taught that the d@mned Lincoln was a saint. The blood of the 600,000 soldiers who died needlessly cry out against him, as do the countless civilian casualties of Total War.
Sorry about the ranting.
John >>
No problem... you are obviously passionate about history, and I'll be the first to admit that it is one area in which I have only a basic interest (hey, can't spread myself too thin). I hear what you're saying and even agree to a point. I never maintained that the north didn't do anything underhanded. However, here's my point for what it's worth.
The civil war was a tragic time in this country's history (you will find that most countries have had their fair share of tragedy... compared to most we've been damn fortunate). Loss of life is a given in this world--happens every day. This very moment, wars are raging--have been since humans first began to lose the ability to relate to each other.
So given that war is a pathetic fact of life in this world (and a constant reminder that we've got a long way to go as a race), and that loss of life is a reality of war, you've got to look beyond the details of this war to the ultimate result. One country, certainly the most powerful currently in existence, the abolishment of slavery and the civil rights movement--championing the cause of freedom and equal rights for all people for the entire world.
History buffs love to examine "what if" scenarios in relation to historical events. It can be a fun exercise (I guess), but it's of little practical use because no one knows with any certainty what "could" have happened "if". All we have to go on is what DID happen, and the consequences (good and bad) of what DID happen are what we have to live with. I look at all the positives that came from that terrible time... that I can work in the state next door without having to show a passport, that I was taught to see black people as my equals instead of my subordinates, that this country is so strong, that I'm even sitting here typing this, etc. etc. etc.
War is hell... that is always the case. But it happened. Let's not forget, but let's also not dwell on it. This country is very strong, due in no small part to the fact that it is united. We could speculate all day as to what could have been if the south had won, but what use is it? No one knows what would have resulted... they didn't and that's that. Lincoln may have been an angel or the devil himself... what does it matter? I'm sure the guy did one or two good things in his life (as has even the most vile, hated people). I don't worship the guy, nor do I villify him. I won't pretend that that north didn't engage in any mispropriety, but at the same time the outcome of the war was good for this country.
As for me, I'm more interested in the progress we can make in the present rather than expending my energies on past events. The civil war did a hell of a lot of good for this country and the rest of the world, but I look around and we've got so far yet to go. History is there to teach us from letting it repeat itself. But there reaches a point when you have to let the past alone and concentrate on what can be done in the here and now.
l2c
