The same way that having Obama appoint the governors of Republicans states with Democrats would thwart democracy for those states.
The same way that having Obama appoint the governors of Republicans states with Democrats would thwart democracy for those states.
Lupi posted the quote out of context, and it's misleading as written. I asked him in a PM to add back a phrase he deleted that helps with the context and he did not respond or do so.
The original topic was about the right's attacking Obama for getting the Nobel Peace prize for 'just words', complaining that 'just words' are not enough to earn it.
I used Martin Luther King Jr., as a conter example who did deserve it for 'just words'.
Lupi's out of context quoting implies that I was attacking King as undeserving, although he did at least leave in the phrase 'you don't see a lot of criticism he didn't deserve it.'
The point was to make the critics say either that they'd also say King was undeserving for 'just words', or to back off their claim that the prize can't be earned with 'just words'.
Yes, his words helped move people to real change - but that's the point, that the right is wrong to say the prize can't be earned by 'just words'.
Whether it was King as part of the civil rights movement that led to a greater cultural shift to valuaing equality regardless of skin color (not to mention his passionate opposition to the Vietnam war that is far less cited), or Obama's move to put America back on the road of valuing international cooperation and diplomacy rather than the thuggish approach of the rogue Bush administration who had contempt for international cooperation and pursued unilateral militarism, the words helped the world and the cause of peace.
Modelworks
Lifer
- Feb 22, 2007
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I blame things like affirmative action that try to impose equality . It promoted the mindset that the way to change things is by giving rather than earning. That is all the NAACP is doing here. They want things a certain way, not because that is the way they should be, but because they feel it is owed to them.
Actually, you are, but congratulations on not being like most who spell it "your".
Our political system, our democracy, has three tiers of scope - federal, state, and local, in a balance of the power and representation.
The idea that democracy is 51% abusing the other 49% is in part mitigated by this multi-tier setup - you don't get ne national leader who appoints every official below him.
Whether it's a city being deprived of electing its own mayor, and a governor of the opposite persuasion appointing one they don't want, as in the OP, or a state being deprived of electing its own governor, and having one they don't like appointed by a president of the opposite political persuasion, it's the same principle. You disagree with that, because you are an idiot. You didn't actually write a single word to argue your position, because you can't back it up, IMO.
Now, sometimes there are tradeoffs, competing problems - such as democracy being denied either by having an opponent appointed, versus having no one representing the group until an election can be held. In those cases, it's a gray area trying to weigh which is the greater harm to democracy - and yes, politics can play a big role regardless of what's best for democracy.
Neither an opponent appointing someone, nor having no one in office, really serves democracy, and something short of democracy sometimes is the only choice.
Ignorant BS on AA.
AA promotes the idea that the century of racism had long-lasting effects - structural, cultural - that prevent equality of opportunity, and which justice demands are adjusted.
It has nothing to do with promoting what you say.
Now, are you completely wrong? No, sometimes AA can be misused. Sometimes it can have that effect. But it's not what it's about, and your ommissions suggest you are ignorant.
The fact is, that just saying 'no race factors' doesn't do anything about the fact that the last four generations of the white family got to earn more and get better education and leave the white child with a lot more oppportunity than the black family who was denied anything but menial labor living in the slums in poverty.
It's a little like if I kept you locked in a room until age 18 and then said 'ok, no discrimination allowed now, that's the solution to the problem'. Well,no, it's not.
AA is about dentifying situations where there are large-scale, systemic inequities that can be presumed related to the long history of racism's effects on a group.
Where you find that in a population of 100,000, whites are 20 times more likely to be 'qualified' despite non-discrimination laws - because of disadvantes from past racism.
Little doubt you are happy to not do anything about that and use the advantage that comes from the century of unfair discrimination; little doubt you haven't even realized that.
But that's not justice, and addressing it isn't the nonsense you said.
Craig, I'll say it again "you're an idiot." I'll expand on it actually, you're a hypocritical idiot. You can't honestly sit here and think making long winded responses that are full of utter nonsense that has nothing to do with you being pointed out as a hypocritical idiot is a good idea. Please just shut up.
Originally posted by: TheSkinsFan
Originally posted by: TheSkinsFan
LOL! Craig's partisan macro-bot is amazing!
owned.
/crickets
The only crickets are left of your right ear, and right of your left ear.
In principle, unnecessarily appointing an official, with the appointer being at odds with the group involved and appointing someone at odds with the group they'll represent, is against democracy. That's the first quote above. The second quote is putting the issue in perspective in comparison to the other issues mentions, to answer another point. The second situation is a tradeoff between the undemocratic practice of appointment, versus the undemocratic practice of not having anyone represent the people.
I said all along, that the Kennedy situation was basically the Democrats pursuing their political interests - even while those interests are more closely aligned to the people.
What they were doing was based on pursuing power, more than pursuing democracy, but it was a gray area for the reasons stated.
In the Kennedy situation, apparently there was no option to have an election in time for the people to have a vote they wanted on the healthcare bill. In the Maryland situation, an election appears to have been claimed to be an option; if it is an option, then that's more democratic than the appointment by an opponent.
Why don't we say twice is enough, with my repeating that you are an idiot, and we don't need to fill the forum with round 3 of the same. You continue to fail to even try to argue.
Apparently they couldn't help him come up with a way to spin it, so he's now doing the next best thing -- he's pretending it never happened.
Craig, they're more aligned with the interests of people who share similar interests as you. That doesn't change the fact there are OTHER people who have DIFFERENT interests in that area than you. The fact that they had changed it for one reason then want to CHANGE IT AGAIN because they think what they changed it to might backfire on them now is blatant abuse by that political party. Now you're flip flopping? Explain... you can't because you're an idiot who does nothing but gargle the balls in front of you. You're the worst kind of idiot, one who thinks he's actually intelligent.
Modelworks
Lifer
- Feb 22, 2007
- 16,240
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I have a better perspective on it than you realize. I lived in Kenya for two years. I went there at the request from a friend who I met in college. I saw what true discrimination is. People that live here now in the USA have no clue. For all their bickering about inequalities they can't even comprehend what it means to be disadvantaged or discriminated against. People there would kill to have the chances that people here claim they can't be treated fairly without help. It makes me sick really when I see something like what the NAACP is doing. It is like a little kid who skinned his knee crying like he is mortally wounded. Time to pick yourself up , dust yourself off, and work for what you want. Nobody is going to give you anything.
Too bad you don't follow what you say and stop posting more idiocy. Your post is too confused for much response - you bacially say not everyone has the same opinion. Wow.
You don't actually say a word to show one word in my post was not correct. Worse, between your idiotic name calling, you say what I said and pretend you're disagreeing.
I said the Democrats were pursuing their own political power with the rule changes. You can't grasp that, and are arguing with your straw man of something I didn't say.
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: TheSkinsFan
Originally posted by: TheSkinsFan
LOL! Craig's partisan macro-bot is amazing!
owned.
/crickets
The only crickets are left of your right ear, and right of your left ear.
In principle, unnecessarily appointing an official, with the appointer being at odds with the group involved and appointing someone at odds with the group they'll represent, is against democracy. That's the first quote above. The second quote is putting the issue in perspective in comparison to the other issues mentions, to answer another point. The second situation is a tradeoff between the undemocratic practice of appointment, versus the undemocratic practice of not having anyone represent the people.
I said all along, that the Kennedy situation was basically the Democrats pursuing their political interests - even while those interests are more closely aligned to the people.
What they were doing was based on pursuing power, more than pursuing democracy, but it was a gray area for the reasons stated.
In the Kennedy situation, apparently there was no option to have an election in time for the people to have a vote they wanted on the healthcare bill. In the Maryland situation, an election appears to have been claimed to be an option; if it is an option, then that's more democratic than the appointment by an opponent.
HOLY UNADULTERATED BULLSHIT BATMAN!!! :laugh:
I said it before, your partisan macro-bot is f'n amazing!
I may or may not disagree with you, that changes nothing. Also, I've never said I wasn't an idiot, in fact I could very well be one. That might be why it is so easy to point out one of my own.
You are making a big fallacy in bringing in the irrelevant issue of the problems in Kenya to a discussion of the injustice in the US.
At a human level you are right about problems in Kenya, and they might make you indeed change your perspective on problems here in our rich nation, but you are wrong to say that that actually addresses the issue. If that were the case, then to any wrong in our society, I'll simply say it's nowhere near as bad as the Holocaust was, so shut up.
The proper position IMO is to understand appreciate the very real issues with the history of racism here, and why proper AA is helping justice, and at the same time to recognize the huge problems elsewhere in the world that need to be addressed, such as the ones you mention - without conflating them that the problems in Kenya make US race injustice ok to ignore. They're not mutually exclusive issues, and it's unfortunate you try to make them so.
There are people who are so wrongheaded that you want them on the other side. I'm not sure if you understand your disagreeig is reassutring, not concerning.
It is interesting how consistently such wrongheaded people fail to even *attempt* an argument to actually support their position, though. You post irrational nonsense. In caps.
You did make a special fool of yourself though with the post that you can say what I'll post. People who say that I find can barely speak for themselves. Stick to trying to do that.
The entity that should be color blind when it comes to the EQUAL treatment of people is the United States Government, AA goes directly against that.
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