Marvel/Netflix's Daredevil

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Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,644
10
81
It's only 13 hours of watching sheesh. Split between a Friday or Saturday night the season could easily be watched in a weekend.

It's been out since Friday, even if I just take out sleeping time and work on Friday/Monday there's about 42 possible hours. So no, I did not spend 13 of 42 hours in only 4 days on one this show.

I totally understand how people do, just not me, not this weekend. I'm sure you can grasp the concept.
 

skyking

Lifer
Nov 21, 2001
22,829
6,001
146
got to S1 E4 and I don't think it is for me. Truly gratuitous violence interspersed with really weak characters, foggy in particular. It was good to see Vondie Curtis hall in there, though. He's a great actor.
 

cronos

Diamond Member
Nov 7, 2001
9,380
26
101
got to S1 E4 and I don't think it is for me. Truly gratuitous violence interspersed with really weak characters, foggy in particular. It was good to see Vondie Curtis hall in there, though. He's a great actor.

Yeah if that ending of episode 4 turned you off then it probably isn't for you. There's some more like that throughout the series. I'm guessing you probably don't like Banshee either :)

I don't think any of the characters are 'weak', though. Do you mean the characterization of that person that's weak, or did you literally mean 'weak characters'? The former is kind of subjective, but I will disagree with the latter. Foggy isn't 'weak'. He is clearly not a superhero, but he's got a purpose, and without him the dynamics of the primary characters in the story wouldn't work as well.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
Honestly, when people said that Daredevil was violent ("deserved its R rating"), I expected it to have a lot more gore than it did. Punisher: War Zone and Dredd were both rated R and far more violent than this show.
 

skyking

Lifer
Nov 21, 2001
22,829
6,001
146
Yeah if that ending of episode 4 turned you off then it probably isn't for you. There's some more like that throughout the series. I'm guessing you probably don't like Banshee either :)

I don't think any of the characters are 'weak', though. Do you mean the characterization of that person that's weak, or did you literally mean 'weak characters'? The former is kind of subjective, but I will disagree with the latter. Foggy isn't 'weak'. He is clearly not a superhero, but he's got a purpose, and without him the dynamics of the primary characters in the story wouldn't work as well.

I don't know if it was how the character is written or how it is being portrayed, but foggy just pisses me off. :)
 

cronos

Diamond Member
Nov 7, 2001
9,380
26
101
I don't know if it was how the character is written or how it is being portrayed, but foggy just pisses me off. :)

Ha. That's funny because he's actually one of my favorite characters. Wilson Fisk is my top. I think D'onofrio played him amazingly. Somehow he was able to portray this the sad, lonely, hopelessly romantic person with a tragic childhood that is also this ruthless, violent, sadistic man, and everything else in between. That's some good stuff right there.
 

skyking

Lifer
Nov 21, 2001
22,829
6,001
146
Vincent has the chops for sure.
The whole foggy fiasco: I understand our hero needs a foil.
To me this foggy is the cheap store brand foil you use three layers on, it still busts open and you end up scraping the roast pan for hours, missing your favorite show.
 
Mar 16, 2005
13,856
109
106
FoggyNelson.jpg
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
Ha. That's funny because he's actually one of my favorite characters. Wilson Fisk is my top. I think D'onofrio played him amazingly. Somehow he was able to portray this the sad, lonely, hopelessly romantic person with a tragic childhood that is also this ruthless, violent, sadistic man, and everything else in between. That's some good stuff right there.

What made me not like Fisk in the series was that I was under the impression that this was the origins of Daredevil and his fight against The Kingpin. Now, I think the first part (the origins of Daredevil) is correct, but the latter is not. The reason why I say that is because season one is really the origin story for both Daredevil and The Kingpin. I think that's really symbolized by the end of episode 13 where
you see Fisk sitting in jail with the all-white inmate outfit. Keep in mind that his suits throughout the series were all gray and usually dark shades. Kingpin in the comics pretty much always wears a white suit, and he'd never put up with or apologize to those pathetic cronies.
 

Childs

Lifer
Jul 9, 2000
11,313
7
81
What made me not like Fisk in the series was that I was under the impression that this was the origins of Daredevil and his fight against The Kingpin. Now, I think the first part (the origins of Daredevil) is correct, but the latter is not. The reason why I say that is because season one is really the origin story for both Daredevil and The Kingpin. I think that's really symbolized by the end of episode 13 where
you see Fisk sitting in jail with the all-white inmate outfit. Keep in mind that his suits throughout the series were all gray and usually dark shades. Kingpin in the comics pretty much always wears a white suit, and he'd never put up with or apologize to those pathetic cronies.

From what little I read about the series beforehand, it was the origins of both Daredevil and Kingpin. There was even talk that Kingpin might make the leap to the big screen in one of the MCU movies before Daredevil.
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,562
3
0
What made me not like Fisk in the series was that I was under the impression that this was the origins of Daredevil and his fight against The Kingpin. Now, I think the first part (the origins of Daredevil) is correct, but the latter is not. The reason why I say that is because season one is really the origin story for both Daredevil and The Kingpin. I think that's really symbolized by the end of episode 13 where
you see Fisk sitting in jail with the all-white inmate outfit. Keep in mind that his suits throughout the series were all gray and usually dark shades. Kingpin in the comics pretty much always wears a white suit, and he'd never put up with or apologize to those pathetic cronies.

So, what? You're one of those people who doesn't like a show because the characters don't perfectly match how they're portrayed in the comics? Your complaints in that spoiler tag are almost entirely cosmetic. I'm not a massive Daredevil comic fan, but from what I've seen the show has done so much more with the Kingpin. He's an actual full-fledged and complex character as opposed to just some superpower crime boss who was bullied as a kid and took revenge. I'd go so far as to say D'onofrio is to the Kingpin what Heath Ledger was to the Joker.
 
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Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
So, what? You're one of those people who doesn't like a show because the characters go beyond how they're portrayed in the comics? Your complaints in that spoiler tag are almost entirely cosmetic.

What are you talking about? There are no complaints in that spoiler text. I'm talking about the symbolism in the ending. Frankly, I never once complained while watching or on here about his attire. Yeesh...!

I'm not a massive Daredevil comic fan, but from what I've seen the show has done so much more with the Kingpin. He's an actual full-fledged and complex character as opposed to just some superpower crime boss. I'd go so far as to say D'onofrio is to the Kingpin what Heath Ledger was to the Joker.

Are you implying that Ledger's Joker was a complex character? I really can't agree with that. Now, I want to be very clear that I do not think being a simple character is inherently a bad thing. The Joker in The Dark Knight was simply a chaotic evil character, and what made it really work is that concept defined his entire character. Hell, I'd argue that most comic book characters are not complex, but they have been trying to change that in recent years.

So, what exactly made Fisk a complex character? Are characters suddenly complex because they have some sort of "duality" about them? Is it because he's so stricken by that painting? Is it because he falls in love with a girl that for some strange reason actually likes him? Frankly, based upon her somewhat over-the-top reaction on their first date, you wouldn't expect her to come back.

EDIT:

From what little I read about the series beforehand, it was the origins of both Daredevil and Kingpin. There was even talk that Kingpin might make the leap to the big screen in one of the MCU movies before Daredevil.

Honestly, I was under the impression that he was going to be an existing character. That was probably enforced a bit by the beginning where everyone was so secretive of his identity like he was the kingpin at the top pulling the strings... which he was.
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,562
3
0
What are you talking about? There are no complaints in that spoiler text. I'm talking about the symbolism in the ending. Frankly, I never once complained while watching or on here about his attire. Yeesh...!

Sorry, misinterpreted. Guess I'm used to seeing cosmetic nitpicking on the internet. You know there are people complaining about the new Star Wars Stromtrooper Armor? :p



Are you implying that Ledger's Joker was a complex character? I really can't agree with that. Now, I want to be very clear that I do not think being a simple character is inherently a bad thing. The Joker in The Dark Knight was simply a chaotic evil character, and what made it really work is that concept defined his entire character. Hell, I'd argue that most comic book characters are not complex, but they have been trying to change that in recent years.

So, what exactly made Fisk a complex character? Are characters suddenly complex because they have some sort of "duality" about them? Is it because he's so stricken by that painting? Is it because he falls in love with a girl that for some strange reason actually likes him? Frankly, based upon her somewhat over-the-top reaction on their first date, you wouldn't expect her to come back.

The complexity of Heath Ledger's Joker comes from analyzing the character. Sure he represents chaotic evil, but the duality comes in when you realize that to pull off everything he does requires some very concrete, decidedly non-chaotic thinking. If he was pure chaos as he describes he wouldn't even be functional. Granted we only have one movie's worth of material to analyze, but there's plenty to go on.

I'd say duality is inherently more complex than not, as it typically means the character has some cognitive dissonance and has to devise methods of dealing with it. Being stricken by the painting is IMO just a trigger for his memories of staring at the wall as shown in his flashbacks; those memories are largely responsible for who he is today. I also don't see a woman being attracted to him as strange. He's smart, powerful, has a gentle side and genuinely loved her. Her over-the-top reaction after their first date was just her coming to terms with that brief glimpse of who he really was (a crime boss). Honestly I've seen far stranger reactions and far stranger relationships in real life.
 

Childs

Lifer
Jul 9, 2000
11,313
7
81
Honestly, I was under the impression that he was going to be an existing character. That was probably enforced a bit by the beginning where everyone was so secretive of his identity like he was the kingpin at the top pulling the strings... which he was.

In a way he was. He was around for awhile, just no one knew about it except criminals and dirty cops. No one actually refers to him as Kingpin, and I think that will come in the next season. Heck, it wasnt until the last few minutes of this season that Daredevil got his name. Its really no different than other MCU characters that havent been on TV or film yet. They all exist, just no one knows about them yet. Murdock was actually fighting Kingpin indirectly before the series started, its just that neither of them knew it.

The whole yin and yang for heroes and villains is a fairly common way to introduce comic characters. I think it would have been kinda weird if 'Kingpin' already existed and was not mentioned in any of the other MCU movies. Although the counter point is that they dont really mention other characters that much. Its surprising how the Shitari invasion didnt seem to have a significant impact on the world. Maybe most of the world thinks it was a hoax.
 

TeeJay1952

Golden Member
May 28, 2004
1,532
191
106
It is this weekends schedule!
Crap food run: Check!
Kids out of town: Check!
3 on Friday, 5 for Sat and finish on Sunday: Check!
Now the Man without Sense can meet the Man Without Fear! Check!
 

dainthomas

Lifer
Dec 7, 2004
14,958
3,948
136
Ha. That's funny because he's actually one of my favorite characters. Wilson Fisk is my top. I think D'onofrio played him amazingly. Somehow he was able to portray this the sad, lonely, hopelessly romantic person with a tragic childhood that is also this ruthless, violent, sadistic man, and everything else in between. That's some good stuff right there.

D'Onofio is fantastic in this show. That is how acting is done.
 

Eug

Lifer
Mar 11, 2000
24,174
1,815
126
Never read the comic. However, this show is totally awesome. I've just finished all 13 episodes. Best I've seen in a long time.

When is season 2 out?!?
 

cronos

Diamond Member
Nov 7, 2001
9,380
26
101
Never read the comic. However, this show is totally awesome. I've just finished all 13 episodes. Best I've seen in a long time.

When is season 2 out?!?

It's Netflix, so you can binge watch a full season in a weekend, but then you get to suck on your thumb for a year :D