Martial Arts vs. UFC style fighting

[Looney]

Originally posted by: MindStorm

You're probably use to seeing kids fight in a school yard and haven't seen a real bar or street fight. Anything, and everything can be use as a weapon... and anything, and everything, does happen. You'll be a fool to want to grapple...

Yup, I've been considering taking up Arnis (or Escrima...not sure if they're the exact same but they're both Philipino stick fighting arts). When those Spaniards invaded the Philipinnes with their mighty guns and bullets, they still had a hell of a time fighting off the stick wielding Philipinos. You can find a stick almost anywhere and those bolos (not too sure on my weapons vocabulary) can be easily hidden in a backpack or sports bag. I would say it's one of the more effective martial arts considering the pragmaticism of fighting with sticks vs other weapons or unarmed arts. Not everyone wants to carry a gun; and the legal repurcussions of using one to defend yourself can land you in jail (such as shooting a mugger in the back who just grabbed your purse and ran away) and obviously a well trained grappler will get his head beaten in against someone who knows who to fight with sticks, even if he's an amateur.

OMG i love arnis... i've had to learn on my own, but it's nowhere near where i want to be. There was a guy that came to challenge my old school, and he was a black belt in Shotokan karate and highly skilled in Arnis.. he was from Detroit, and was thinking about starting a school here in Arnis. I don't know what happened to him (he got schooled by our brown belts in Karate), but i told him i would enlist with his school if he taught the fighting sticks.

 

[Koing]

Originally posted by: Moralpanic

Do you think you could bite someone? If so I'm sure he'll happily punch your face or what not. If hes got mount your almost dead.

Um, if you're already in a real fight, he's going to happily punch your face anyways, so what's the lost in biting?

mma guy wins in a 1v1 fight with no outside interference quite easily.

This discussion is going nowhere because you guys keep repeating the same stuff over and over. MMA is a sport... they don't deal with REAL fighting you find in the streets. If you think taking a fall to hard concrete is easy, you try it. I'm not talking about just tripping over, but with another weight ontop of you... even if you're ontop of somebody, you're going to hit your knees or elbows good. And then add in no-holds bar such as biting, hairpulling, eye gouging, and you're not going to want to go to the ground.

So who has a better advantage when all else is equal, weight, skill, years of training, etc... a thai kickboxer or MMA? in a real street fight, that MMA isn't going to purposely go for the ground if he's smart, so he'll be standup fighting most of the time... so that 'quite easily' isn't quite as clear anymore.

You guys are nothing but armchair fighters, who really have no clue as to what you're talking about. Go to any reputable MMA school, and ask them to teach you self-defense. They don't teach self-defense, because that's not what it's about. It's a SPORT, and they realize it.

Hey so you fail to read this bit then?

In a real fight its very *dodgy* to ground. Not so much the hard concrete ground, sure its going to hurt but you can take it. As long as there are not blades on the ground or glass. The dodgy thing is him not biting you. Do you think you could bite someone? If so I'm sure he'll happily punch your face or what not. If hes got mount your almost dead.

The MAIN thing about going to ground in a real street fight is the chance of his *friends* or what not kicking you or nailing you with a bottle when your fighting a guy. You can't defend well if his mate comes to smash a bottle over your head.

I didin't say going to ground in a REAL fight wouldn't have it problems. I did say them here.

The biting bit I was refering when you had mount. Its going to be hard for him to bite you. If he does then it doesn't stop you from punching in the face repeatedly also does it? That was my point. Not what was the lost in biting.

This discussion is going nowhere because you guys keep repeating the same stuff over and over. MMA is a sport... they don't deal with REAL fighting you find in the streets. If you think taking a fall to hard concrete is easy, you try it. I'm not talking about just tripping over, but with another weight ontop of you... even if you're ontop of somebody, you're going to hit your knees or elbows good. And then add in no-holds bar such as biting, hairpulling, eye gouging, and you're not going to want to go to the ground.

I *know* mma is a sport but in real situations I'd still favor the mma guy over most martial arts. That my opinion about it.

And I'm no armchair fighter. I train and I spar weekly.

So who has a better advantage when all else is equal, weight, skill, years of training, etc... a thai kickboxer or MMA? in a real street fight, that MMA isn't going to purposely go for the ground if he's smart, so he'll be standup fighting most of the time... so that 'quite easily' isn't quite as clear anymore.

You know that the Thai kick boxer if he doesn't cross train will have NO GROUND SKILLS AT ALL. Thai kickboxing doesn't teach to grapple on the ground or defense. As SOON as he is on the ground he would be totally out of depth. The fight WILL go to the ground and so what if the mma guy takes a few knocks with concrete? You think the other guy isn't going to hurt also? The mma guy will win. But in a more real situation the thai kickboxer guy *could*have a friend come up and also attack the mma guy. So going to ground in an un even fight wouldn't be smart.

I'm just saying in a 1v1 real fight completely no rules apart from it has no outside interference the mma would win in my opinion. The Thai guy knows no ground moves or subs to help him. Remember you can do anything. But if the mma wasn't to go down then he would be at a disadvantage. But he *can* go to tackle and fight on the ground though.

 

[Gyrene]

Tackling is way to sloppy of a way to get someone to the ground. Simple redirection, and your tackler is on the ground by himself. If you face someone highly adept in his or her martial art, assuming it surrounds all aspects from punches to redirection, then getting them to the ground is extremely difficult. Don't underestimate martial arts because of what you see most people practicing over here. It's a extremely passified version of true martial arts.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: dtyn
Tackling is way to sloppy of a way to get someone to the ground. Simple redirection, and your tackler is on the ground by himself. If you face someone highly adept in his or her martial art, assuming it surrounds all aspects from punches to redirection, then getting them to the ground is extremely difficult. Don't underestimate martial arts because of what you see most people practicing over here. It's a extremely passified version of true martial arts.

tackling is a real dumb way to get someone down. Now a good high 1 leg where you actually pick them up and slam them down works wonders. granted on someone who knows wrestling or most martial arts this wont work.

i was in a fight about 5 years ago and all i did was a single leg where i picked him up and drove him to the ground. it knocked the air out of him and gave me enough time to get the few hits i needed.

 

[FacelessNobody]

Good Lord!

Moralpanic is the only one who posted who has an idea of what real combat is. This is all arena fighting that you guys have been talking about, little of it applies to your own personal survival. Martial arts vs. MMA? What you've been discussing here is sport fighting. Any real combative school will practice everything--"stand-up fighting", "ground fighting", weapons training, etc. Many concepts unify them all, anyway, and it's foolish to even categorize them (except for reference's sake). Mass? Size? Means little relative to skill and attitude, and matters even less when it comes to your own survival. I'd rather be very flexible at 5' 10" than be massive at 6' 3". The bigger me might be more of a deterrent, but someone who truly wants to take me out isn't gonna care how large I am, what gender I am, or what my martial arts background might be. I'm sure many of you realize this, though. For your own safety, please realize the style vs. style argument is bunk and that real combat never takes place in an arena. Personally, if I went out each day facing imminent danger, my preferred style would be "ching-pow" 🙂, just like our brave law enforcement officers prefer.

Edit: Sorry, didn't see yours dtyn!

 

[QueHuong]

Don't underestimate martial arts because of what you see most people practicing over here. It's a extremely passified version of true martial arts.

Yeah, very true also. This isn't from personal experiences but I've read about training in Japan vs training here...and they take it freaking seriously. It's sad most martial arts here are watered down to accomodate everyone to make more money. I would say my Tae Kwon Do school teaches more self defense than most other TKD schools, which focus on the sports aspects so I think mine's better in terms of learning how to defend yourself. But even then, I get frustrated at times of all those safely rules. But I like my art, I like my instructors and fellow students so I'm fiercely loyal to my school.

Mass? Size? Means little relative to skill and attitude, and matters even less when it comes to your own survival. I'd rather be very flexible at 5' 10" than be massive at 6' 3".

LOL...who's that loser who started talking smack because he happened to be big? It was in that thread with a martial art video. Oh man...reading his posts was hilarious. "I don't care how fast you are..I'll rip your arms out of your shoulders." Hahaha.

 

[FacelessNobody]

LOL...who's that loser who started talking smack because he happened to be big? It was in that thread with a martial art video. Oh man...reading his posts was hilarious. "I don't care how fast you are..I'll rip your arms out of your shoulders." Hahaha.

Oh HELL! I JUST saw that guy's name in another post but I can't remember where! 🙂

 

[Marshallj]

Originally posted by: Moralpanic

You have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. Your entire knowledge of MMA comes from watching a few UFC fights it seems like.

How come every one of your posts is immature and inflammatory?

With an attitude like that, I'm surprised you haven't been to prison. Oh wait, that's right, you HAVE been to prison. What a surprise.

 

[Koing]

Originally posted by: dtyn
Tackling is way to sloppy of a way to get someone to the ground. Simple redirection, and your tackler is on the ground by himself. If you face someone highly adept in his or her martial art, assuming it surrounds all aspects from punches to redirection, then getting them to the ground is extremely difficult. Don't underestimate martial arts because of what you see most people practicing over here. It's a extremely passified version of true martial arts.

Oh so you don't call a single a take down? Okay sorry I should have used the word *take down*or *shooting for the legs* instead of tackle. In the way I meant *tackle* I meant *any means to get the guy down*. They are many ways of getting a guy down.

A *simple redirection* isn't so simple and the other guy wouldn't be on the ground by himself. He will have a hold of you and will eventually get you to ground. So you haven't seen the *numerous* take downs and tackles that have been done in UFC/Pride or any mma event then? You think it would be simple to get out of the way? Sure it happens but its hard to avoid going to ground.

tackling is a real dumb way to get someone down. Now a good high 1 leg where you actually pick them up and slam them down works wonders. granted on someone who knows wrestling or most martial arts this wont work.

i was in a fight about 5 years ago and all i did was a single leg where i picked him up and drove him to the ground. it knocked the air out of him and gave me enough time to get the few hits i needed.

So what are you chatting about? A tackle doesn't just mean that. When you went for the one leg you don't call this a form of a tackle? Anyway I should have used the phrase *shooting in* instead. By your own admission its *easy* to get someone to the ground. Thats my point. Its easy to get someone to the ground. From there you have a hudge advantage.

DON'T kid size means little to relative skil and attitude. It does. Obviously I'm saying it doesn't matter but it does. A lot of things matter.

I'm flexible at 5"10 and very strong. I've trained in a variety of styles and now focus more on grappling.

Of course I know training in the east is much different.

The thing that annoys me is that people think they can take care of themselves but have no grasp of ground fighting and grappling. They learn the lesson when they get in to a grapple they go to ground and they can't kick or punch well. And get beat. Simple as that.

So who wants to spar then? 😀:evil: 😉

 

[Looney]

You know that the Thai kick boxer if he doesn't cross train will have NO GROUND SKILLS AT ALL. Thai kickboxing doesn't teach to grapple on the ground or defense. As SOON as he is on the ground he would be totally out of depth. The fight WILL go to the ground and so what if the mma guy takes a few knocks with concrete? You think the other guy isn't going to hurt also? The mma guy will win. But in a more real situation the thai kickboxer guy *could*have a friend come up and also attack the mma guy. So going to ground in an un even fight wouldn't be smart.

I'm just saying in a 1v1 real fight completely no rules apart from it has no outside interference the mma would win in my opinion. The Thai guy knows no ground moves or subs to help him. Remember you can do anything. But if the mma wasn't to go down then he would be at a disadvantage. But he *can* go to tackle and fight on the ground though.

I never said the thai kickboxer would win... i just said the 'quite easily' win of the MMA isn't quite as clear as you might think.

Thai kickboxing doesn't teach to grapple on the ground or defense. As SOON as he is on the ground he would be totally out of depth.

This is where you're wrong... and this is where you're ignorant. What you see is the BEST OF THE BEST fighting when you watch Pride and UFC. Unfortunately, MMA is a professional sport, with no amatuer league just yet. If you go and watch an 'amature' fight, you'll see how long a fight last. You'll see a BJJ fighter against a muay thai fighter, and you'll see how long it really takes a BJJ fighter to submit the kickboxer... if he does. You're basing your entire knowledge on what you see on TV... go to a real MMA fight, and then come back and argue. It's not so easy getting a submissive lock as one might think... especially when the other person is desperate to escape.

 

[Looney]

For your own safety, please realize the style vs. style argument is bunk and that real combat never takes place in an arena.

Exactly! Take real combat, and it really is a toss up. ANY style, if you train properly, can easily overcome an untrain individual... whether it's Tae Kwon Do, Hapkido, Kung fu, wrestling, jjs, etc... but when you come face to face with a trained individual in a REAL no hold bar fight, there is no 'ultimate' style. MMA may come close, but it's nowhere the 'clearly' superior style that some of you claim.

Having said that, having a good standup fight and ground fighting experience is essential if you want to be a well rounded fighter.

 

[Looney]

DON'T kid size means little to relative skil and attitude. It does. Obviously I'm saying it doesn't matter but it does. A lot of things matter.

I've done BJJ... and i LOVE it. It's a different form of fighting than your average sparring and ring fighting, and really does work the cardiovascular system more than standup fighting. But when it comes to jujitsu, size DOESN'T matter... it's clearly obvious you have no experience in it if you think it does. Why else do you think Royce Gracie beat so many people larger than him? Infact, a skilled jjs fighter would rather fight a larger opponent, because it's much easier to get in close and stay close, and let the larger guy tire himself, than it is fighting somebody the same size. But that's only for jjs fighting with rules. When you get into MMA fightin such as Pride, where there are less rules than traditional jjs fighting, and things such as knees to the head is allowed, size will matter. But the 'size matters' isn't due to jjs, but due to just plain dirty fighting... which is what street fighting is.

The thing that annoys me is that people think they can take care of themselves but have no grasp of ground fighting and grappling. They learn the lesson when they get in to a grapple they go to ground and they can't kick or punch well. And get beat. Simple as that.

And the thing that annoys me is people that watch UFC and think groundfighting is all it takes to be a complete fighter. IF you had to choose one style, you'll be dumb if you choose ground fighting. Groundfighting in a real life situation is much more limited than standup fighting. BUT if you want to be a complete fighter, or want to compete in MMA, you'll need to know both. Look up the Gracies, and you'll see they've started incorporating Thai Kickboxing into their regiment... and that's because they know that groundfightin in itself isn't enough.

 

[Koing]

This is where you're wrong... and this is where you're ignorant. What you see is the BEST OF THE BEST fighting when you watch Pride and UFC. Unfortunately, MMA is a professional sport, with no amatuer league just yet. If you go and watch an 'amature' fight, you'll see how long a fight last. You'll see a BJJ fighter against a muay thai fighter, and you'll see how long it really takes a BJJ fighter to submit the kickboxer... if he does. You're basing your entire knowledge on what you see on TV... go to a real MMA fight, and then come back and argue. It's not so easy getting a submissive lock as one might think... especially when the other person is desperate to escape.

I know its not easy to get a lock or sub on a person. I do spar weekly and know it takes longer sometimes or it doesn't happen. We spar with 5 minute rounds as I'm looking to go in to mma competitions and fighting. I know there is no 5 minute round in real life. I train to 5 minute rounds as I want to compete.

I'm not ignorant. I did highlight the pit falls of going to ground earliler.

The whole thread was Martial Arts Vs MMA. I just stated my opinion on the topic.

Unfortunately, MMA is a professional sport, with no amatuer league just yet. If you go and watch an 'amature' fight, you'll see how long a fight last.

I go and see amateur fights and events. They are not pro fighters but they aren't bad either. You would will not find a guy doing one perticular style either. No style is complete. You take the best bits that work for you and mix and match. Then you will be a more rounded fighter.


I know its not fast to get a sub on in a fight, the other person doens't just let you pull it on. You work for your subs and you wait but thats the beauty of it. You have the advantage and you can pick your time. The thai guy could kick the BJJ guy in the head when getting close to shoot in. The thai guy could turn and give his back = dead. But you know more often then the Thai guy will get to ground.

Sometimes you get a quick sub and sometimes it takes longer. When I spar it depends what the other guy presents to me. If hes got a better defence hes not sloppy and will be harder to sub. If hes sloppy it will be over quick.

when you come face to face with a trained individual in a REAL no hold bar fight, there is no 'ultimate' style. MMA may come close, but it's nowhere the 'clearly' superior style that some of you claim.

I don't say its *clearly* suprerior for the pitfalls of another attacker and such. But you said it yourself *it may come close* so I'd take mma over a single Martial Art that doesn't focus on ground fighting/grappling myself. Others would take a Muai Thai which I personally think is very good also for both sport and fighting.

Having said that, having a good standup fight and ground fighting experience is essential if you want to be a well rounded fighter.

Something we agree on 😀

(me is off to sleep now)

 

[Gyrene]

Originally posted by: Koing
So what are you chatting about? A tackle doesn't just mean that. When you went for the one leg you don't call this a form of a tackle? Anyway I should have used the phrase *shooting in* instead. By your own admission its *easy* to get someone to the ground. Thats my point. Its easy to get someone to the ground. From there you have a hudge advantage. DON'T kid size means little to relative skil and attitude. It does. Obviously I'm saying it doesn't matter but it does. A lot of things matter. I'm flexible at 5"10 and very strong. I've trained in a variety of styles and now focus more on grappling. Of course I know training in the east is much different. The thing that annoys me is that people think they can take care of themselves but have no grasp of ground fighting and grappling. They learn the lesson when they get in to a grapple they go to ground and they can't kick or punch well. And get beat. Simple as that. So who wants to spar then? 😀:evil: 😉

I'm not going to brag about my body size/strength/flexibility/mobility/whatever, nor am I going to brag about the style/styles that I have trained in. I'm not going to brag about all/none of the fights I've participated in and won/lost. I'm simply going to say that people who think that grappling and ground fighting win out punching and kicking all the time have simply not gained the necessary experience to make that call. Take two serious, equal fighters, one trained in <your pick> of Gung Fu (I used Gung Fu as most styles are well rounded), the other trained in <you pick> of grappling and ground fighting, and I will place all of my money on the practitioner of Gung Fu. Simply because of the mental and physical adeptness he has gained, and the encompassing skills he practices. I make this call through my personal experiences of real fights and competitive fights. You may say whatever you wish, but my mind will not change until I am shown otherwise.

 

[Looney]

Originally posted by: Marshallj

Originally posted by: Moralpanic

You have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. Your entire knowledge of MMA comes from watching a few UFC fights it seems like.

How come every one of your posts is immature and inflammatory?

With an attitude like that, I'm surprised you haven't been to prison. Oh wait, that's right, you HAVE been to prison. What a surprise.

Awwww, did i hurt your feelings again? Are you going to challenge me to a real fight again?

 

[Greyd]

Originally posted by: Moralpanic

Originally posted by: Greyd

Originally posted by: Moralpanic

Originally posted by: Greyd
Silva is a monster, as the fights with Sakeraba have show. But he's still kinda weak on the ground stuff. Did anyone see the fight where Silva threw Sakuraba down and dislocated his collarbone or something. That was a interesting rematch. I like Silva, but he needs to get smarter and not just rely on brute strength

Follow the link... it explains what he broke. I remember the first fight they had, when knees to the head while on the ground was reinstated... and boy did Sak take a beating... but he didn't tap out.

Like i said, we're seeing a big change in MMA again with all the standup fighters such as those in K1 crossing over. It's much more exciting now.

Ahhh.the clavicle. Yeah the first fight was just sad. Silva kept kneeing him to the head. Why are the people in K1 going to Pride?

Money! There's been quite a few crossovers already. Most notable Bob Sapp going to K1, and CroCop going from K1 to Pride. I think it also has to do they just want to be a well rounded fighter, so they do both. People are bigger, meaner, and more skilled... just makes for better watching.

I don't know about it being sad the first fight. Silva is an animal. He has the look of a psycho, and when he fights, he fights like one.

Heh..i meant sad for Sakuraba. He got wasted by those knees to the head.😛

 

[Koing]

Originally posted by: dtyn

Originally posted by: Koing
So what are you chatting about? A tackle doesn't just mean that. When you went for the one leg you don't call this a form of a tackle? Anyway I should have used the phrase *shooting in* instead. By your own admission its *easy* to get someone to the ground. Thats my point. Its easy to get someone to the ground. From there you have a hudge advantage. DON'T kid size means little to relative skil and attitude. It does. Obviously I'm saying it doesn't matter but it does. A lot of things matter. I'm flexible at 5"10 and very strong. I've trained in a variety of styles and now focus more on grappling. Of course I know training in the east is much different. The thing that annoys me is that people think they can take care of themselves but have no grasp of ground fighting and grappling. They learn the lesson when they get in to a grapple they go to ground and they can't kick or punch well. And get beat. Simple as that. So who wants to spar then? 😀:evil: 😉

I'm not going to brag about my body size/strength/flexibility/mobility/whatever, nor am I going to brag about the style/styles that I have trained in. I'm not going to brag about all/none of the fights I've participated in and won/lost. I'm simply going to say that people who think that grappling and ground fighting win out punching and kicking all the time have simply not gained the necessary experience to make that call. Take two serious, equal fighters, one trained in <your pick> of Gung Fu (I used Gung Fu as most styles are well rounded), the other trained in <you pick> of grappling and ground fighting, and I will place all of my money on the practitioner of Gung Fu. Simply because of the mental and physical adeptness he has gained, and the encompassing skills he practices. I make this call through my personal experiences of real fights and competitive fights. You may say whatever you wish, but my mind will not change until I am shown otherwise.

I just state an opinion and a arguement. If it makes an impression so be it if not then thats that. I'm not out to make everyone love grappling or what not.

 

[Koing]

Originally posted by: Moralpanic

Originally posted by: Marshallj

Originally posted by: Moralpanic

You have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. Your entire knowledge of MMA comes from watching a few UFC fights it seems like.

How come every one of your posts is immature and inflammatory?

With an attitude like that, I'm surprised you haven't been to prison. Oh wait, that's right, you HAVE been to prison. What a surprise.

Awwww, did i hurt your feelings again? Are you going to challenge me to a real fight again?

Hey so whats the story behind this? You guys fought?

Hey are you in England? If so I'd like to spar with you sometime if possible. But I guess you live in the states.

 

[Koing]

But when it comes to jujitsu, size DOESN'T matter... it's clearly obvious you have no experience in it if you think it does. Why else do you think Royce Gracie beat so many people larger than him?

He beat them because they had no idea how to fight on the ground and defend. Most of his fights were in the early days and most of the fighters were not as rounded and aware as submissions and ground fighting as they do now. Now most of the fighters know about subs, shooting for the legs, grapples etc.

Back then they stuck with their style and they lost.

This in no way discredits Roryce Gracie as I think the guy is AMAZING.

Also Helio was fought a Japanese guy in JJ and he lost. He had a feeling he would lose because the Japanese guy was quite a lot bigger then him. Helio was very good and did ver well but he did *lose* to the bigger guy. They are both experts at what they do and know how to grapple and fight. The bigger guy won here. Not always the case. But here you see you use BJJ which is a form grappling/ ground fighting and where most UFC/Pride subs and such has taken from.

 

[Looney]

Originally posted by: Koing

Originally posted by: Moralpanic

Originally posted by: Marshallj

Originally posted by: Moralpanic

You have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. Your entire knowledge of MMA comes from watching a few UFC fights it seems like.

How come every one of your posts is immature and inflammatory?

With an attitude like that, I'm surprised you haven't been to prison. Oh wait, that's right, you HAVE been to prison. What a surprise.

Awwww, did i hurt your feelings again? Are you going to challenge me to a real fight again?

Hey so whats the story behind this? You guys fought?

Hey are you in England? If so I'd like to spar with you sometime if possible. But I guess you live in the states.

Naw, i'm in Canada... Cambridge, Ontario.

The story behind us? He couldn't argue with me successfully with words, so he started challenging me to a real fight. Said he'll drive up here and meet me. LOL I don't care, i'm sure we'll have a Toronto ATOT meet soon, and he can come then and show his muscles. Of course i think he's nothing but all talk.

Anyways, i would agree, to be a well rounded fighter, you need to have both a good standup game and a ground game. But in a real fight, the ground game isn't as important as some people claim. The ground is the LAST place where you want to be in a real fight, even for an MMA. There are just too many unknowns... will he bite, will he have a weapon, will he have a friend jump in, etc.

 

[Looney]

I really don't care what people take... since if they really think ground fighting is that important, it only benefits me. But i hate to see new people who want to join for the self-defense aspect of martial arts, be taken in by the attention that ground fightin has gotten. If a new person came to me, and knew NOTHING of martial arts, and wanted to learn something basic for self-defense, i would pick a standup art like karate or kickboxing for them. To me, it's much more important to learn how to throw a proper punch and kick, and learn to take a punch and kick, than to roll on the ground. Think about this, if you had to teach your daughter, gf, or wife, a limited amount of self-defense, what would you teach her? I would teach them how to disable an attacker quickly and easily, and that includes punching to the bridge of the nose, strikes to the throat, and kicks to the groin. IT IS NOT TO ROLL ON THE GROUND WITH THE RAPIST.

 

[Koing]

IF you had to choose one style, you'll be dumb if you choose ground fighting. Groundfighting in a real life situation is much more limited than standup fighting. BUT if you want to be a complete fighter, or want to compete in MMA, you'll need to know both. Look up the Gracies, and you'll see they've started incorporating Thai Kickboxing into their regiment... and that's because they know that groundfightin in itself isn't enough.

Funny then that Gracie Jiu Jitsu has done so well hasn't it?

So you haven't seen the numerous fights the Gracie family have had between them? The real ones not inside a ring where they had disputes and such in the beach? Where anything could of went? They took the guy down and well what happened? He schooled the guy.

Ground fighting has been enough for GJJ for the past 75 years. Now its time to change it a bit and incorporate other things they deem worthy for addition in to it.

I'm a big GJJ fan. A style that openly accepts fights from any other style. Got to respect that.

 

[Looney]

Originally posted by: Koing

IF you had to choose one style, you'll be dumb if you choose ground fighting. Groundfighting in a real life situation is much more limited than standup fighting. BUT if you want to be a complete fighter, or want to compete in MMA, you'll need to know both. Look up the Gracies, and you'll see they've started incorporating Thai Kickboxing into their regiment... and that's because they know that groundfightin in itself isn't enough.

Funny then that Gracie Jiu Jitsu has done so well hasn't it?

So you haven't seen the numerous fights the Gracie family have had between them? The real ones not inside a ring where they had disputes and such in the beach? Where anything could of went? They took the guy down and well what happened? He schooled the guy.

That's because they've been fighting unskilled people. Any blackbelt in any style can school the average guy on the street... or at least i certainly hope so, if they're wearing a blackbelt. But take a look at the MMA and how the Gracies are doing... they're getting their ass whopped. And it's for a reason... because standup fighting is much more important now. Really, if you've followed any of the last few Gracies fight, you'll see commentary that they've started training thai kickboxing... and it's for a reason.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: Koing

Originally posted by: dtyn
Tackling is way to sloppy of a way to get someone to the ground. Simple redirection, and your tackler is on the ground by himself. If you face someone highly adept in his or her martial art, assuming it surrounds all aspects from punches to redirection, then getting them to the ground is extremely difficult. Don't underestimate martial arts because of what you see most people practicing over here. It's a extremely passified version of true martial arts.

Oh so you don't call a single a take down? Okay sorry I should have used the word *take down*or *shooting for the legs* instead of tackle. In the way I meant *tackle* I meant *any means to get the guy down*. They are many ways of getting a guy down.

A *simple redirection* isn't so simple and the other guy wouldn't be on the ground by himself. He will have a hold of you and will eventually get you to ground. So you haven't seen the *numerous* take downs and tackles that have been done in UFC/Pride or any mma event then? You think it would be simple to get out of the way? Sure it happens but its hard to avoid going to ground.

tackling is a real dumb way to get someone down. Now a good high 1 leg where you actually pick them up and slam them down works wonders. granted on someone who knows wrestling or most martial arts this wont work.

i was in a fight about 5 years ago and all i did was a single leg where i picked him up and drove him to the ground. it knocked the air out of him and gave me enough time to get the few hits i needed.

So what are you chatting about? A tackle doesn't just mean that. When you went for the one leg you don't call this a form of a tackle? Anyway I should have used the phrase *shooting in* instead. By your own admission its *easy* to get someone to the ground. Thats my point. Its easy to get someone to the ground. From there you have a hudge advantage.

DON'T kid size means little to relative skil and attitude. It does. Obviously I'm saying it doesn't matter but it does. A lot of things matter.

I'm flexible at 5"10 and very strong. I've trained in a variety of styles and now focus more on grappling.

Of course I know training in the east is much different.

The thing that annoys me is that people think they can take care of themselves but have no grasp of ground fighting and grappling. They learn the lesson when they get in to a grapple they go to ground and they can't kick or punch well. And get beat. Simple as that.

So who wants to spar then? 😀:evil: 😉

heh when you said tackle i think of some idiot jumping on/diving on someone and hoping the momentum or weight will take them down.

A good ankle pick or a single/double leg is not a tackle (at least I have never heard it called that) its more of a ?shoot in? then tackle.

But yeah I agree with what you are saying.

 

[waggy]

edit: stupid double post. i think my computer is slow and now i need to upgrad! yeah thats it! 😀