Market Down, Again

[cubby1223]

tacks major modifications where all 20 previous FAA funding extensions were passed without any problem at all.

Isn't this the whole point of the Democratic Party? I heard all the time that the government cannot keep doing the same things and expect different results. The time for change is now!

 

[Thump553]

DOW keeps tanking in real terms, was 45-to-1 with gold in 2000, now only 7-to-1 with gold. May get to 1-1 again like in 1980.

Tell me, what was gold like for the rest of the 1980s and 1990s? Anyone that bought in 1980 lost their shirts many times over-and that bubble is going to burst again, it's just a matter of time.

 

[spidey07]

Tell me, what was gold like for the rest of the 1980s and 1990s? Anyone that bought in 1980 lost their shirts many times over-and that bubble is going to burst again, it's just a matter of time.

That's what folks were saying a year ago, and now look at it.

As long as the dollar keeps tanking it's going to go up. And right now there is nothing coming from the white house that isn't making it worse. QE3 is coming.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Isn't this the whole point of the Democratic Party? I heard all the time that the government cannot keep doing the same things and expect different results. The time for change is now!

So you think it's better to put 74,000 people out of work and then take a 5 week vacation instead of passing a short term extension and dealing with things when you get back or just fixing it before you leave?

As soon as the debt limit debacle was done everyone was yelling. JOBS JOBS JOBS. Bullshit! They put 74K people out of work and cost the Government $200M in weekly revenues that would have been taken in.

 

[theeedude]

That's what you get when you teabaggers ram an austerity bill through in the middle of a recession. Guaranteed double dip. The markets are just pricing it in.

 

[cubby1223]

So you think it's better to put 74,000 people out of work and then take a 5 week vacation instead of passing a short term extension and dealing with things when you get back or just fixing it before you leave?

As soon as the debt limit debacle was done everyone was yelling. JOBS JOBS JOBS. Bullshit! They put 74K people out of work and cost the Government $200M in weekly revenues that would have been taken in.

Life ain't fair. And it's been proven time and time again that our government is not capable of correcting anything unless one side does something dramatic. Both parties know this. Both parties engage in this. And both parties bitch at the other party every step of the way. And even then it rarely does any good. Look at the debt limit debacle, "compromise" led to more of the status quo. Taxes are not raised, and spending will not be cut. Kick the can down the road. Just pass a short term extension and deal with things later.

And, to play the partisan hackary game, that $200m/week is stimulus in the hands of American citizens to use and spend on other goods and services as they see fit 😛

 

[ayabe]

Why are we talking about American politics, the Dow's problems right now (today and yesterday) are much more about the looming European financial meltdown than anything that's been going on here in the US. The fact that Italy is about to implode certainly isn't bolstering the international economic outlook.

because it's harder to blame that on Obama.

 

[the DRIZZLE]

That's what you get when you teabaggers ram an austerity bill through in the middle of a recession. Guaranteed double dip. The markets are just pricing it in.

So the markets are pricing it in today, days after it was passed? I don't think you understand market efficiency. Just because you think the solution is infinite spending, that doesn't mean everyone else does.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Life ain't fair. And it's been proven time and time again that our government is not capable of correcting anything unless one side does something dramatic. Both parties know this. Both parties engage in this. And both parties bitch at the other party every step of the way. And even then it rarely does any good. Look at the debt limit debacle, "compromise" led to more of the status quo. Taxes are not raised, and spending will not be cut. Kick the can down the road. Just pass a short term extension and deal with things later.

And, to play the partisan hackary game, that $200m/week is stimulus in the hands of American citizens to use and spend on other goods and services as they see fit 😛

That's not partisan hackery that's just trying to speak from a poorly informed position.

The airlines are still charging a comparable amount to travellers. They upped their fares to keep ticket prices level and are pocketing the difference instead of forwarding it off to the government.

 

[Jaskalas]

That's what you get when you teabaggers ram an austerity bill through in the middle of a recession. Guaranteed double dip. The markets are just pricing it in.

The brilliance of Dems: Spend Spend Spend!

As if money grew on trees, and you could just keep stimulating after the first few failures. As if deficits and debts do not matter. As if people will keep loaning, as if AAA credit is guaranteed. As if going broke and defaulting is not possible.

Oh, that's right, in order to Spend Spend Spend! you're going to Print Print Print! Yes, your answer to 'austerity' is to simply destroy the dollar and make everyone pay more for everything. That is how you would not default, by using economic murder.

I'm glad we've got your position on quote, it's quite a jewel.

 

[a777pilot]

The airlines are still charging a comparable amount to travellers. They upped their fares to keep ticket prices level and are pocketing the difference instead of forwarding it off to the government.

LOL!

Good for them!

 

[umbrella39]

Posted in a clueless ghost of PJabber hack troll thread where the topic smells like shit, just like the upper lip of the person crying....

 

[umbrella39]

Getting all your fillings re-done?

Fillings require teeth.

 

[theeedude]

The brilliance of Dems: Spend Spend Spend!

As if money grew on trees, and you could just keep stimulating after the first few failures. As if deficits and debts do not matter. As if people will keep loaning, as if AAA credit is guaranteed. As if going broke and defaulting is not possible.

Oh, that's right, in order to Spend Spend Spend! you're going to Print Print Print! Yes, your answer to 'austerity' is to simply destroy the dollar and make everyone pay more for everything. That is how you would not default, by using economic murder.

I'm glad we've got your position on quote, it's quite a jewel.

That's right, the economy is sustained by Spend Spend Spending.
The debt deal is going to destroy the dollar, because it leaves only one stimulus option on the table: Quantitative easing.
If you want to save the dollar, you will need to tax and spend on infrastructure to make US more productive.

 

[theeedude]

So the markets are pricing it in today, days after it was passed? I don't think you understand market efficiency. Just because you think the solution is infinite spending, that doesn't mean everyone else does.

Markets are pricing in the fact that we still have economic problems, but don't have the political will in Washington to deal with them, instead choosing to create new problems. And they started pricing it in before the debt deal passed, in case you haven't noticed.

 

[the DRIZZLE]

That's right, the economy is sustained by Spend Spend Spending.
The debt deal is going to destroy the dollar, because it leaves only one stimulus option on the table: Quantitative easing.
If you want to save the dollar, you will need to tax and spend on infrastructure to make US more productive.

That's fine in principle, but that's not what we spend on. Whether or not you feel entitlements are a moral imperative, they don't make us economically more competitive.

 

[PokerGuy]

That's what you get when you teabaggers ram an austerity bill through in the middle of a recession. Guaranteed double dip. The markets are just pricing it in.

Hey moron, there's no "austerity" of any kind. The mad spending will continue until the printing presses run out of ink. That's the reality, and that's what the markets are worried about.

 

[PingSpike]

Are Obama and the Dumbocrats responsible for ANYTHING? If we are just going to blame the Republicans for everything perhaps the Dems should just resign? The most intelligent President to ever serve and hold office is unable to convince the public that its the R's causing the issue? Not only that, he couldn't convince the American people but they wildly swung from pro-Dem to pro-Rep is the last election.

Maybe the American people realized if they're going to have a shitty Republican president no matter what they might as well get on the winning team and vote for one. 😛

 

[werepossum]

That's what you get when you teabaggers ram an austerity bill through in the middle of a recession. Guaranteed double dip. The markets are just pricing it in.

The debt ceiling bill was a compromise allowing us to raise our borrowing to more than our GDP and leave absolute record government spending in place in return for yet another commission promising future spending cuts. That even the dullest knife in the drawer could call this an austerity bill just shows how truly screwed we are.

Some here are claiming that the markets are dropping because of concern about Europe. I find that unconvincing. The USA's 2011 deficit as a percentage of GDP is about as high as or higher than that of Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Belgium, Greece, and Spain. Our debt as a percentage of GDP is already higher than Spain's or Belgium's, and we're quickly catching up to the others. Our debt is massively larger in absolute magnitude than all the others combined, and per capita is almost twice as large. And we have no healthy economies such as France and Germany to bail us out. We ARE Ireland and Portugal, we're worse than Spain, and we're rapidly gaining on Greece. In short, the USA represents everything fiscally bad in the EU without the fiscally good things in the EU. Europe is adopting actual austerity measures; America is operating business as usual and calling it austerity.

The only bright side I see is that with control of the world's reserve currency, our fed can create new money, which its member banks then loan to the government on the cheap.

 

[theeedude]

Hey moron, there's no "austerity" of any kind. The mad spending will continue until the printing presses run out of ink. That's the reality, and that's what the markets are worried about.

B.S. This red ink was already projected while market was going up up up.
It's the reduction in future spending that is making it tank. Layoffs will follow.
Prepare for a horrible 2012, and even worse 2013, when the actual cuts from this debt ceiling suicide pact start kicking in.

 

[Bitek]

So if a devalued currency is so bad, why do we complain about China doing it? Oh, because it makes their exports more competitive and all the jobs and money flow from us to them.

So far all the HYPERINFLATIONOMGzWTF!!!1 has been Wrong Wrong Wrong!

Consumers/everybody are awash in debt and trying to deleverage. No spending, no buying, only saving. Ergo no business growth, no jobs, no wage growth.

Inflation and/or weak dollar are bad if you are interested in overconsumption. Want strong $ to buy cheap gas to drive around in huge steel monstrosities. Want cheap Chinese shit to fill your 5000sqft McMansion built by Mexicans all bought on credit, refi's and home equity loans.

We've had that. Has to go the other way to correct. Need to be more competitive and have better trade balances. Inflation would help drive down real costs of our debts.
We can do it the hard way, or the really awful way.

 

[Bitek]

Hey moron, there's no "austerity" of any kind. The mad spending will continue until the printing presses run out of ink. That's the reality, and that's what the markets are worried about.

Part true if you were talking about Europe. US bonds tell a different story.

Crazy tho how austerity led to -%GDP growth, led to higher bond %'s and debt, which led to more bailouts, which led to more austerity, which led to -%GDP growth, led to higher bond %'s and more debt, which led to more bailouts...
Greece, Ireland, Italy, Spain... same thing. Rinse and repeat. Same in UK, but at least they had the good foresight to not jump off the Sterling.


The US has not passed much austerity, but no stimulus either. Instead we have policy paralysis where we are spending shit tons of $ on things that will have little help on the economy (wars, overly generous Medicare + partD plans, taxcuts, other bureauractic BS) all the while not investing in things that could be job creating (infrastructure, aid to states, mortgage mods.)

We are at a stalemate which is worst of both worlds, no likelihood of getting any better.

 

[matt0611]

So if a devalued currency is so bad, why do we complain about China doing it? Oh, because it makes their exports more competitive and all the jobs and money flow from us to them.

So far all the HYPERINFLATIONOMGzWTF!!!1 has been Wrong Wrong Wrong!

Consumers/everybody are awash in debt and trying to deleverage. No spending, no buying, only saving. Ergo no business growth, no jobs, no wage growth.

Inflation and/or weak dollar are bad if you are interested in overconsumption. Want strong $ to buy cheap gas to drive around in huge steel monstrosities. Want cheap Chinese shit to fill your 5000sqft McMansion built by Mexicans all bought on credit, refi's and home equity loans.

We've had that. Has to go the other way to correct. Need to be more competitive and have better trade balances. Inflation would help drive down real costs of our debts.
We can do it the hard way, or the really awful way.

Lower priced energy and goods?
Oh no! Who would want that!

Increase prices please!

The Swiss Franc has increased dramatically against the dollar in the past year, yet they have 4-5% employment, how can this be?

Good thing I'm holding on to my guns and gold, they get more valuable every day.

 

[Phokus]

Teahadists

This is fucking brilliant.

 

[MooseNSquirrel]

Remember everyone, you need to memorise the mantra.

Clinton was successful BECAUSE of the Republicans.

Bush failed BECAUSE of the Democrats.

Obama is failing DESPITE the Republicans.