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Mark Sanford wins, democracy shamed

Stephen Colbert's sister, Elizabeth Colbert-Busch, has lost in her race against Mark Sanford in a conservative district.

Sanford defeated 15 competitors in the primary to be the Republicans' choice.

As a reminder who this guy is, a bit of trivia: as Governor, he opposed the 'faith-based' state license plates being offered, but allowed them to pass without his signature.

He commented on them: "It is my personal view that the largest proclamation of one's faith ought to be in how one lives his life."

He'd get an irony of the month award from me were he a poster here.

Politicians can be narcissistic, but this guy.

John Edwards fell for a woman he worked with enough that she had his child. He cared a lot about Americans, but was pretty despicable to his wife. He's ruined politically.

Mark Sanford has about at least that level of behavior, but without the 'good side' caring about the welfare of citizens much as Edwards did. When he fell for someone, for a week, he simply disappeared to sleep with her as governor - leaving his wife and state police responsible for him with no idea where he was. It's so bogglingly narcissistic and irresponsible, it just stands out among bad sex scandals for politicians.

For comparison, New Jersey Jim McGreevey resigned as governor basically for being gay - like many gay men, with great intolerance, he had married a woman and had an affair with a man. For that he had to go. He's still out of office. He seems like a pretty great guy, other than having limited options and choosing a bad one that let him be accepted but hurt the woman he married. Had he not and been honest, shamefully for our society, he could not have been elected governor.

Anyway, the icing on the cake of who Sanford is is really shown by the narcissism that when he decided his district couldn't find a better member of Congress than him, he asked the wife he had cheated on - who had left him - to run his campaign. She was shocked and said no.

This conservative district that will eat up talk of morals and family values and respecting marriage (if you're straight) decided, that's our man.

In my opinion, it's just a shameful day for democracy that the voters of a congressional district make such a bad choice. That reflects on them, not Sanford.

It's all who the people want, and who can pay for the campaigns, I guess. A watchdog group that's more liberal had named him while governor one of the nation's 11 worst, in part for ethics violations, while the far-right Libertarian Cato institute named him America's best, for things like being the first governor who said he wanted to turn down stimulus money from the Obama administration for his state.

As far as being especially effective as governor - he vetoed the entire budget, and the legislature overrode his veto, one year.

The man just seems to me to be shameless and have very poor policies, and while I'm all for some 'redemption stories' - and there's no reason to question his statement how he fell in love with the Argentian woman while married, it happens - he was very irresponsible and just bizarre in his doing something like asking the ex-wife to do that. (She also called the police on him for stalking, secretly being in her house and fleeing).

Even if the voters wanted a 'conservative' - not my choice, but their right - they couldn't find a better one? The double standards for different politicians don't help.

David Vitter, caught not only with prostitutes (sorry, Governor Spitzer, that kills your being in office) but *ordering them from the Senate floor* - still a Senator.

OK, one last illustration of Sanford's hypocrisy - when Clinton got a blow job, Sanford said: "I think it would be much better for the country and for him personally [to resign]."

Re-elected.
 
Says more about his opposition than it does about him. If they weren't so distasteful ideologically to the constituents they would have a better chance against such an individual.
 
Says more about his opposition than it does about him. If they weren't so distasteful ideologically to the constituents they would have a better chance against such an individual.

That sounds like speculation. Any evidence to back it up? How do you know why they voted for Sanford? Could it have been more tv ads? They think he's religiously more like them?
 
I am confused at how democracy is shamed. He won an election right? He didn't rig it or cheat right? Seems to me like democracy worked but you are just upset your candidate didn't win.
 
It would have made zero difference either way.

I don't agree at all, but admit not that big a difference - it wouldn't change control.

Then again IIRC the crucial first Clinton budget hiking taxes on the top 2% passed by one vote with zero Republican votes. Obamacare was close, wasn't it?

Who knows what issues might be decided by one vote the next two years?
 
I am confused at how democracy is shamed. He won an election right? He didn't rig it or cheat right? Seems to me like democracy worked but you are just upset your candidate didn't win.

On the one hand, I partly agree with a point you make. There are difference ways for democracy to be shamed; like fraud (2000). This isn't those problems.

On the other hand, it's one thing for me to just prefer one candidate over another. That happens in nearly every race - I prefer this policy, not that policy.

This isn't about that, either, contrary to your speculation.

The fact that I prefer her policies to his is accurate, but not the issue.

Rather, the shame for democracy, in my opinion, comes from just how extremely bad this choice is, beyond the usual reasons of policy.

Look, I support John Edwards' policies. If he got elected president, don't you think some people might feel there was a shame that someone who has behaved like him could win?

Imagine a race where a guy in the KKK runs on a platform of extreme racism, deport all the blacks - and wins. Isn't there some shame that platform can win?

Take the New Jersey governor's race I mentioned above. The gay guy had to go. But - in a point I forgot to finish above - he was replaced by a Wall Street guy who was very wealthy, supporting all kinds of terrible policies of the sort that led to the 2008 crash but his money helped him 'buy the election'. I'd say there's some shame for our democracy there, too.

It's one thing just to say 'my guy won' and 'my gal lost' - I can celebrate the victory of the guy I think has bad policies, as far as celebrating that democracy worked.

It's when the sytem reuslts in what seems like an especially bad choice that shouldn't have been able to get elected, or the fraud you mention, or an eleciton is bought, or other 'bad things' like that, that it seems to me shame becomes an issue for the election. I don't say 'democray is shamed' for over 90% of Republican victories I oppose. Just some exceptional ones.

I felt some shame for California back when we recalled Governor Davis - a fine guy - and actually elected movie star near-billionare Arnold Schwarzeneggar. That was not democracy functioning as the sort of system it's supposed to where people make decent choices using the power of the vote, instead allowing fame, ego and money to defeat better people.
 
Hey if someone can smoke crack on an FBI surveillance tape... go to prison, and get re-elected mayor of a large metropolitan city... I think an adulterer winning a vacant seat is simply par for American politics.
 
This happens with both parties.

We live in an age of celebrity, where people are "famous for being famous" and those with no talent and no accomplishments are worshipped as heroes. Mark Sanford isn't the first despicable individual to win an election based on "name-brand recognition" despite his actions, and he won't be the last.

Compared to Marion Barry, Mark Sanford is an amateur.
 
shrug he had an affair. big woop.

I will say the same thing i said when Clinton did it (btw i don't recall seeing OP flame clinton or call for him to resign). This is between him, his wife and whatever god he prays to.
 
Nate Silver has a good writeup on this.

Bottom line -- his poor behavior did have an impact, just not enough to swing a very conservative district, which of course is likely the reason Sanford ran there.

I find it interesting that this election would be portrayed as representing a shaming of democracy. As I see it, the people who voted for Sanford did so in spite of his flaws, not because of them, and because they felt that despite those flaws, he better represented their views and interests than the Democrat did. Which is entirely reasonable.

I suppose one could criticize the Republicans for choosing him in the primary, but again, I am sure they selected the person they felt had the best chance of winning. It doesn't appear that anyone notable ran against him, and it would have been IMO more irrational for conservatives to vote against Sanford and then end up with a Democrat in the seat.
 
Nate Silver has a good writeup on this.

Bottom line -- his poor behavior did have an impact, just not enough to swing a very conservative district, which of course is likely the reason Sanford ran there.

I find it interesting that this election would be portrayed as representing a shaming of democracy. As I see it, the people who voted for Sanford did so in spite of his flaws, not because of them, and because they felt that despite those flaws, he better represented their views and interests than the Democrat did. Which is entirely reasonable.

I suppose one could criticize the Republicans for choosing him in the primary, but again, I am sure they selected the person they felt had the best chance of winning. It doesn't appear that anyone notable ran against him, and it would have been IMO more irrational for conservatives to vote against Sanford and then end up with a Democrat in the seat.

I've often said that ideology comes before almost any other consideration. Some have objected at least in words to some things Obama has done then went on and defended him ad infinitum because of the "lesser of two evils" concept. Since we have no more than two choices each party can usually count of putting up that yellow dog and having it get votes. This applies to both sides of course. A "feature" of our political system.
 
I've often said that ideology comes before almost any other consideration. Some have objected at least in words to some things Obama has done then went on and defended him ad infinitum because of the "lesser of two evils" concept. Since we have no more than two choices each party can usually count of putting up that yellow dog and having it get votes. This applies to both sides of course. A "feature" of our political system.

Sadly, most people vote by party. They vote either all Republican or all Democrat. Educated voters are the minority.
 
Sadly, most people vote by party. They vote either all Republican or all Democrat. Educated voters are the minority.

It's worse than that. In a perfect two party system where everyone is scrupulous there are only two viable options.

To illustrate- Suppose someone came up with a perfect hamburger, one which everyone agrees is a tasty burger. Another the same with a hot dog.

So you go to McBurp's restaruant. You want a chicken club. No, sorry. You can have a burger or hot dog. Nope, not what you are after.

So you go to Luigi's Pizza. You can have a hotdog or hamburger.

Le Bec Fin. Burger or hotdog.

Just how good does a burger or hotdog have to be to be something else you want?

That's were we are. We don't even get fries with that.
 
It's worse than that. In a perfect two party system where everyone is scrupulous there are only two viable options.

To illustrate- Suppose someone came up with a perfect hamburger, one which everyone agrees is a tasty burger. Another the same with a hot dog.

So you go to McBurp's restaruant. You want a chicken club. No, sorry. You can have a burger or hot dog. Nope, not what you are after.

So you go to Luigi's Pizza. You can have a hotdog or hamburger.

Le Bec Fin. Burger or hotdog.

Just how good does a burger or hotdog have to be to be something else you want?

That's were we are. We don't even get fries with that.
Oh, I know. I am firmly against the two party system, but the system is so entrenched in our politics, no 3rd party can rise until one of the others collapse.
 
Just how good does a burger or hotdog have to be to be something else you want?

I think the part of the analogy that explains the problem is missing here: you like burgers but you really don't like hot dogs. And I like hot dogs and really hate burgers.

So you go in and ask for a chicken club, and the guy says "I don't have a chicken club, but you better eat this burger, because the other guy only serves hot dogs". And I go in and ask for a salad, and my guy says "I don't have a salad, so you should take this hot dog, else you'll be stuck with a burger".

And that's why we always just have hot dogs and burgers.
 
I think the part of the analogy that explains the problem is missing here: you like burgers but you really don't like hot dogs. And I like hot dogs and really hate burgers.

So you go in and ask for a chicken club, and the guy says "I don't have a chicken club, but you better eat this burger, because the other guy only serves hot dogs". And I go in and ask for a salad, and my guy says "I don't have a salad, so you should take this hot dog, else you'll be stuck with a burger".

And that's why we always just have hot dogs and burgers.

Sure you can have a chicken club. Just pay the few billion dollars startup costs. That's the problem. We really do have a practical duopoly. There is no conceivable way that a third party can defeat the Reps or the Dems because the funding situation prevents it. One can talk theory all day, heck in theory a new planet can spontaneously form within our solar system, but I'm not holding my breath. If there were to be finance campaign reform it should include a mechanism where other contenders have competitive chance. That will happen when the Bull Moose Party rises again.
 
Sure you can have a chicken club. Just pay the few billion dollars startup costs. That's the problem. We really do have a practical duopoly. There is no conceivable way that a third party can defeat the Reps or the Dems because the funding situation prevents it. One can talk theory all day, heck in theory a new planet can spontaneously form within our solar system, but I'm not holding my breath. If there were to be finance campaign reform it should include a mechanism where other contenders have competitive chance. That will happen when the Bull Moose Party rises again.

It is funny because Ross Perot still had the highest chance of winning as an independent.
 
This happens with both parties.

We live in an age of celebrity, where people are "famous for being famous" and those with no talent and no accomplishments are worshipped as heroes. Mark Sanford isn't the first despicable individual to win an election based on "name-brand recognition" despite his actions, and he won't be the last.

Compared to Marion Barry, Mark Sanford is an amateur.

You beat me to it. Barry was re-elected after being caught on videotape smoking crack.
 
You beat me to it. Barry was re-elected after being caught on videotape smoking crack.

So is the comparison to Sanford that
1) Smoking crack is less reprehensible than sleeping around😉
2) Barry is from DC - anything is expected to go😎
3) Party affiliation 🙄
4) Pick your poison.:whiste:

😕
 
So is the comparison to Sanford that
1) Smoking crack is less reprehensible than sleeping around😉
2) Barry is from DC - anything is expected to go😎
3) Party affiliation 🙄
4) Pick your poison.:whiste:

😕

Uh no, if anything it's more reprehensible because it's illegal. Adultery is not. My point is that republicans are not the only ones who get a pass for moral wrongdoing.

To tell you the truth, I'm not entirely certain why some like Sanford and Barry get a free pass while others like Edwards do not.
 
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