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Mario Galaxy 2: 5/23/10

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Actually my biggest issue with SMG in general are that the levels are too small and sort of linear.

The levels are (IMO) not that much smaller than those from M64, when you add together all the different star deviations. The throwback level is evidence of this.

Plus there are a lot more of them.

If you like playing the same levels over and over then M64 is more for you liking, due to a larger number of stars being in each level. However, I think variety is a key asset and keeps SMG from getting nearly as boring and tedious as M64, where I kept thinking "hey, I'm playing this level for the thousandth time".

As far as linearity, they are both have about the same amount of openness - they just express it differently.

M64 gives you more open levels, but to pursue each star you just have a take a certain path in that level. There is no real non-linearity, as you have to tackle each star in a certain way.

SMG breaks the levels into chunks so only the relevant parts are shown to you for each star. They also revamp the reused parts, to keep things fresh. I think this adds a lot of spice and gets rid of the repetition M64 had.
 
Actually, I prefer SM64 on a certain level too. IMO, SMG1 & 2 have overall superior platforming, but the games feel less cohesive and more tedious than SM64.

This makes sense, since there are a larger number of more diverse levels in SMG than in M64. I disagree with your tedious assertion, as replaying the same few levels over and over against in M64 got a lot more tedious than the more varied level design on SMG.

My biggest gripe is probably the overall level design. Yes, there are some very creative levels in SMG, but they are very linear. In Mario 64 there were a lot more "open world" type levels. When you entered a world you were given a hint like you are in SMG, but in many cases you could actually collect any star in that level. If you happened across another star while going after the hint star you could collect it. In SMG this is largely untrue because the levels are altered, often dramatically, to funnel you to the hinted star. There are exceptions (e.g. some hidden stars), but overall this is true.

While the world appears more open, like I said above, you still have to tackle each star a certain way. There is no real added non-linearity. SMG just breaks levels up into each star section, which does funnel you towards the targeted star, but also provides a more focused gameplay experience where you don't have to go through the same areas 6 or 7 times.

Also, and maybe related, I'm not a huge fan of these levels with random chunks of the level floating everywhere. Maybe the linearity and these random floating chunks of land is what gives them more flexibility in the level design, but the levels just don't feel much like actual worlds... if that makes sense? Every level, and thus the entire game, sort of feels like a hodgepodge of arena-like challenges rather than cohesive worlds. Sort of like if SM64 had had some DLC challenge levels you might end up with crazy nonsense like in the SMG games.

I know what you mean. There are a lot of levels consisting of small planetoids or sections in SMG, although there are more open worlds too. But it definitely is a different feeling than M64.

I also HATE the star bits. Hate them. Collecting that crap is tedious and doesn't fit the game at all IMO.

More tedious than collecting 100 coins in each M64 level? I think not. Not only are they much easier to collect and can be collected on the side while hunting stars, but you don't even have to walk up to them! Just moving the cursor over star bits collects them, making collecting much, much less tedious.

Not only do I hate collecting them, why can I, the user, shoot star bits out of the sky like I'm the hand of God? I know Mario games are crazy and pretty much make no sense at all, but this really bugs me for some reason. It really creates a clear separation between Mario the on-screen character and me as the player. I'm sure most people won't care, but it bugs me.

I agree with you hear. I rarely use the feature for that reason.

I also hated the hub world in SMG1. There was something somewhat fascinating about getting to explore the castle in SM64, but that didn't apply to SMG1. SMG1's hub was boring, tedious, and just flat out annoying. Thankfully, Starship Mario and the map access to levels fixes that problem in SMG2.

Yeah, the hub in SMG1 was poorly designed. SMG2's hub is better, but still doesn't match the awesome castle of M64.

Overall I really am enjoying SMG2, much more so than even SMG1, but I still long for the SM64 at times. Because as noted above, sometimes SMG just doesn't feel like a true SM quest... it just feels like a random collection of crazy platforming challenges with wildly fluctuating difficulty to boot.

Your points are valid, but I still find it hard to believe that someone who hasn't played M64 first would like it significantly more than SMG. I think that nostalgia has a strong power over perception of video games.
 
116 stars. Finished the game and I'm now playing Super World (eg world 6). There are some really difficult stars here. Especially some of the purple coin commet levels like the Luigi purple coin and rainbow slide purple coin ones!! Almost finished but the last few levels are going to be a pain in the ass I can see. Wonderful game though!
 
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I agree that M64 was a lot more tedious. Just look at the throwback level in SMG 2 it's a pain to play this level compared to the rest of the game!
 
all BS aside, i still think the (first) water level in M64 is probably one of the best levels i've ever played in a game with the best music as well.
 
This makes sense, since there are a larger number of more diverse levels in SMG than in M64. I disagree with your tedious assertion, as replaying the same few levels over and over against in M64 got a lot more tedious than the more varied level design on SMG.

It's a combination of things that makes SMG feel more tedious to me. For one, I really enjoyed hunting the stars in the M64. Yes, there are many hidden stars in SMG, especially SMG2, but there was just something appealing about actually needing to read the hint for most of the stars in M64. The hints aren't really hints at all in most cases with the SMG games. Just keep moving forward and you'll get to the next star. I think this is largely what kept the M64 worlds feeling fresh for me.... the hunt. Just about the time I was getting tired of a level it was time to move on anyway.

While the world appears more open, like I said above, you still have to tackle each star a certain way. There is no real added non-linearity. SMG just breaks levels up into each star section, which does funnel you towards the targeted star, but also provides a more focused gameplay experience where you don't have to go through the same areas 6 or 7 times.

I disagree with this. Yes, stars are in specific locations with often specific ways to acquire them. But within each world it was definitely largely non-linear. In most cases you could get any star in any order and more or less had to hunt them down. In the SMG games, you just keep going forward and the game will force you to the next star. You may have to hunt for some of the hidden stars, but unless you're actually going for all the stars you can stick with the main listed stars and have enough to keep progressing in the game... at least as far as I've played thus far.

More tedious than collecting 100 coins in each M64 level? I think not. Not only are they much easier to collect and can be collected on the side while hunting stars, but you don't even have to walk up to them! Just moving the cursor over star bits collects them, making collecting much, much less tedious.

Well, admittedly, that was tedious at times too. But I still prefer that over the star bits. For one, collecting coins has been a Mario staple from the beginning. Two, it's me playing as Mario collecting the coins. In SMG it's me, the player as the hand of God waggling the stupid star cursor all over the screen, collecting most of them. That just serves to separate me from the game, and as mentioned before, that really bugs me. Plus, I don't like having to collect some obscene amount at once to feed those hungry Lumas. Also, you didn't need to collect any of the coins in M64, that was just the way to get one of the stars in each level. At times in SMG you must have a large number of star bits to advance down a path to new levels. It's the difference between getting a single star in a level and just gaining access to worlds with multiple stars. I'd simply prefer that they weren't in the game or that they were at least not required to advance to certain levels.

Your points are valid, but I still find it hard to believe that someone who hasn't played M64 first would like it significantly more than SMG. I think that nostalgia has a strong power over perception of video games.

I'm sure nostalgia plays a role, but I still prefer the level structure of SM64. The SMG games have better graphics and a lot of new creative platforming elements, but they still feel like I'm playing a collection of random arena challenges on floating junk rather than a cohesive Mario adventure set in Mario worlds. I think you could take many of the platforming elements found in SMG and use them in a more open M64-like level structure. That's all I'm really saying.

Also, despite my tone at times, I really do enjoy SMG2. I bailed on SMG1 half way through due to boredom and tedium, but that doesn't seem to be happening with SMG2. BTW, I LOVE the side scrolling levels. That's my preferred method for linear Mario levels. I think those plus the much improved level navigation is what's making the difference for me with SMG2. I could still do without the star bits, but so far I've simply lived with it because the platforming is so solid.
 
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Mario 64 and sunshine are the outliers in the mario series. Mario has always been about small, linear levels.

The open world with stars format was created in Mario 64 so they could reuse the same levels over and over, and still have a decent length game despite the storage limitations of the cartridge and inexperience of the programmers with 3D. Get a single star and you get shot back to the beginning. The 100 coin, the red coin stars....sigh. All tricks to get you to enjoy playing the same thing over and over. I found it exhausting and annoying, even back then.

Those limitations no longer exist, and the shorter linear levels allow for a return to tradition, not to mention keeps everything fresh because youre not constantly going through the same stuff. They still reuse the levels with the comets, but at least that changes it up.

There was something likable about the exploration in M64/Sunshine, but SMG is what mario is and always has been all about.
 
Mario 64 and sunshine are the outliers in the mario series. Mario has always been about small, linear levels.

The open world with stars format was created in Mario 64 so they could reuse the same levels over and over, and still have a decent length game despite the storage limitations of the cartridge and inexperience of the programmers with 3D. Get a single star and you get shot back to the beginning. The 100 coin, the red coin stars....sigh. All tricks to get you to enjoy playing the same thing over and over. I found it exhausting and annoying, even back then.

Those limitations no longer exist, and the shorter linear levels allow for a return to tradition, not to mention keeps everything fresh because youre not constantly going through the same stuff. They still reuse the levels with the comets, but at least that changes it up.

There was something likable about the exploration in M64/Sunshine, but SMG is what mario is and always has been all about.

The being able to see but not reach until you get item X appeals to a large number of gamers 🙂 The Zelda series does this well.
 
The being able to see but not reach until you get item X appeals to a large number of gamers 🙂 The Zelda series does this well.

I've had my fill of that sort of thing. I found something once, having to remember what I saw, redo everything I did, and hope that I see it again next time annoys me.
 
The being able to see but not reach until you get item X appeals to a large number of gamers 🙂 The Zelda series does this well.

But there are no situations like this in mario games. I agree with you, but I dont understand what you're getting at. Every star in Mario 64/Sunshine was available in each level from the start, you were just forced to go back to the beginning every time you collected one.
 
But there are no situations like this in mario games. I agree with you, but I dont understand what you're getting at. Every star in Mario 64/Sunshine was available in each level from the start, you were just forced to go back to the beginning every time you collected one.

that's not totally true SMW for SNES was the King of backtracking after you got powerups that allowed you to do things
 
131 stars. Finished the game and beat Bowser twice and I'm now on the Green star Challenge. These ones are hidden or hard to find. I bet some of these are going to be really tricky.
 
Damn ... nice work Locut0s ... I'm at 90 stars as of last night, but just haven't been able to dedicate much time to it in the last week or so. I did bump off a couple of the purple coin levels that I didn't particularly enjoy last night though, so the next session should be into all new stuff 🙂
 
WOOT. beat bowser and onto world S i only have 79 stars. man some of them are hard to get.

i hate useing yoshi and the damn pepper. bah
 
WOOT. beat bowser and onto world S i only have 79 stars. man some of them are hard to get.

i hate useing yoshi and the damn pepper. bah

I love Yoshi and the peppers... crazy fun, but it can get frustrating at times.

This is just a terrific game.
 
107 stars...

I really hate the motion-controlled minigames. They feel so tacked on and leave me thinking, "hey, this would be so much more fun and easier if I could just use a damn joystick".

Bah, the downfall of playing a Wii game. They have to shove in shitty motion controls somewhere.
 
107 stars...

I really hate the motion-controlled minigames. They feel so tacked on and leave me thinking, "hey, this would be so much more fun and easier if I could just use a damn joystick".

Bah, the downfall of playing a Wii game. They have to shove in shitty motion controls somewhere.

I don't mind motion controls in general, but there were some parts in this game that got me soooooo frustrated b/c of it. ie. the first platform flipping (blue and red) stage. I would jump, waggle, and the colors would not change correctly...leading to my death.
 
Stop playing for about 2 weeks. Started again today. I think I have about 153 stars now. These green stars can be a challenge indeed. Most of then aren't too hard to find but some of them require some really difficult jumps. Luckily you can hear a tinkling sound when they are nearby.
 
Picked it up for 43 bucks at Costco. It's Mario so of course it is super fun. I'm really enjoying it and am only at 25 stars or so. Haven't had this much fun with a game in a long time but I also love platformers. It's one of those games I simply can't stop playing. Highly addictive.

Just one more star, then I'll stop. Ok, just one more star then I'll stop. 4 hours later...ok! This is the last star then I'll stop.

Agree that the new galaxy navigation is MUCH better than the last. I don't get the purpose of the banktoad though.
 
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Picked it up for 43 bucks at Costco. It's Mario so of course it is super fun. I'm really enjoying it and am only at 25 stars or so. Haven't had this much fun with a game in a long time but I also love platformers. It's one of those games I simply can't stop playing. Highly addictive.

Just one more star, then I'll stop. Ok, just one more star then I'll stop. 4 hours later...ok! This is the last star then I'll stop.

Agree that the new galaxy navigation is MUCH better than the last. I don't get the purpose of the banktoad though.

The only useful think banktoad offers is sharing starbits between accounts...and that isn't even really useful.

I've been giving him startbits so that he keeps buying new equipment (spear+shield, pickaxe).

EDIT: So there is use for banktoad:
Apparentally you have to max out banktoad at 9999 to unlock the final star
 
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Stop playing for about 2 weeks. Started again today. I think I have about 153 stars now. These green stars can be a challenge indeed. Most of then aren't too hard to find but some of them require some really difficult jumps. Luckily you can hear a tinkling sound when they are nearby.

Yeah, I'm at 173 now. Those green stars can sometimes be difficult to get. They also offer a lot more non-linear option, to those who were complaining about the "funneling" effect of SMG.
 
I'm up to star 51 and frankly some of the imagination and creativity that went into making these levels blows me away.

Frankly other game developers should be embarrassed.
 
I got all 242 a few days after my last post.

The last star was a huge PITA.

Great game, overall.
 
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