Marine sniper credited with longest confirmed kill in Iraq

[Tommunist]

Originally posted by: Mookow

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
I don't think firing at someone who doesn't even know your there at 1000 yards wouldn't be much different then a firing range. Especially a competitive match like Camp Perry.

Camp Perry is firing at a stationary target in full view at a known distance. Field shooting is a little different, even if they dont know you are there at the time.

I would think you would be under a lot more pressure in the field as well. This may help or hurt depending on the kind of person you are.

 

[Geardo]

Originally posted by: B00ne

Originally posted by: Geardo
I'm missing out on all the killing

:|

How sick a brain does one need to have be sad of not being able to murder (without legal repercussion)? Perhaps you should go kill a few rats before your urge to kill humans gets to strong and breaks out in an amok run.

Killing terrorist's isn't murder!

 

[cwjerome]

Haven't you been banned yet?

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: kage69

Well, if age is the measurement, then I started big game hunting at 12. I guess you lose again.

No, I don't. Just illustrating I'm not a noob, one not interested in pissing contests at that.

I've also hunted Elk, Moose, and Bear in Canada. When you come out and do some plains hunting then tell me about bragging about "shooting prowness".

Now you're assuming I've never hunted outside of Maine, not sure why the rest is relevent. "Shooting prowness"? Ok.

I'm just stating th facts as I know them. If you think that's bragging that's fine with me.

I didn't accuse you of bragging, I just kinda chuckle when threads like this come up and all of a sudden the place is loaded with expert hunters who pull amazing shots all the time. Sorry, but at first your post appeared to be one. I've just known too many people who talk big about shooting, but at the range or quarry they can't hit milk jugs at 50yds.

If you will note, it was a question, not a statment.

My apologies, I should have said, what makes you think I haven't taken a few long shots?
My disdain for shooting at those ranges has less to do with my abilities to do so, but rather more with it 1.) being unnecessary the majority of the time, 2.) the presence of trees, and 3.) even larger, faster rounds lose tons of kinetic energy past 800yds resulting in less of a knockdown punch. When I kill, it's for meat and I prefer it to be as close to instantaneous as possible. I remember back in 93, my dad took a record black bear (at the time it was officially the 3rd largest ever taken in the state) at a distance of 60yds with a .375H&H (lung shot), and the damn thing took off instead of dropping! It was almost dark, and neither of us were keen on the thought of searching for an irrate wounded bear in the woods at night, we ended up coing back the next morning with shotguns and found it about 300yds from where it took the bullet. Cardiovascular traits of bear and deer are different obviously, but I think you get my point.


That's awesome about the pheasants though, always liked taking the dogs out chasing birds. In Maine we have mostly partridge and woodcock, I've only come across pheasant once (but it was tasty!) Do you let people roam, or do you do guided hunts?

I shot my bear on a steep side hill about 150 yards away. I was using my .300 mag with a max load of powder and a Nosler 220 grain partioned bullets. When i shot it the dirt on the other side of the bear must have flown 8 feet in the air and the bear took off like a shot!! I pumped another round into the magazine and touched off another shot, but just as I squezzed it off, the bear just dissapered from the scope. It was right on the edge of the clearing and thought he must have gotten into the woods. I thought to myself (I was alone) OMG, did I wound him and now have to track a wounded bear?? When I dropped my rifle down, I could see a black spot just on the other side of a fallen tree on the edge of the clearing. I carefully made my way over there and he was dead as a doornail, shot thru the heart. Boy, can those things run!! WhooHooo!! He hit the tree and that was it for him.

I have three groups of pheasant hunters come and I just let them hunt, that is the way they like to do it, as would I. I only take one group at a time so they no everyone in their hunting party. One of the groups aren't very good hunters and I usually end up helping them the last day or two so they can go home with their limit. One of the hunters from that group brings two basset hounds with him. He spends most of his time following his dogs because they are chasing rabbits. I swear to god he doesn't come to hunt, he's just taking his dog's on a vacation, hehe.

 

[Train]

I've never been hunting, (well, fishing, if that counts) I grew up in the inner city, our wild life was stray cats and pigeons. Got good with rifles after going through a hell of a lot of marksmanship training. from my expirience, breathing control and a smooth trigger pull is key, scope doesnt help nearly as much, IMO, as a steady hand, and a calm and concentrated composure. I would like to see what I could do with a higher caliber, all my point target shooting has been 5.56 (basically a high power 223) I've even considered transfering to the sniper unit in my battalion (I've got good enough marks to apply) Some of the snipers in my unit have the .50 cal bolt action (Drool) I'm not sure what the spec'ed range is, but I'd bet these things could take your head off at 2 miles on a good day

I probably couldnt bring myself to shoot many animals, maybe a deer if I was going to eat as much of it as possible. It just doesnt feel right shooting something as innocent as a deer. Hell I feel bad when I see a squashed squirrel in the road. Though if I were in the snipers position, and had a lead on someone lobbing mortars on my Marines, I'd put one between thier eyes without missing a beat. I've met a lot of guys who feel the same way, they would rather kill a human (that is a threat) than an animal any day.

 

[Ozoned]

Originally posted by: Train
I've never been hunting, (well, fishing, if that counts) I grew up in the inner city, our wild life was stray cats and pigeons. Got good with rifles after going through a hell of a lot of marksmanship training. from my expirience, breathing control and a smooth trigger pull is key, scope doesnt help nearly as much, IMO, as a steady hand, and a calm and concentrated composure. I would like to see what I could do with a higher caliber, all my point target shooting has been 5.56 (basically a high power 223) I've even considered transfering to the sniper unit in my battalion (I've got good enough marks to apply) Some of the snipers in my unit have the .50 cal bolt action (Drool) I'm not sure what the spec'ed range is, but I'd bet these things could take your head off at 2 miles on a good day

I probably couldnt bring myself to shoot many animals, maybe a deer if I was going to eat as much of it as possible. It just doesnt feel right shooting something as innocent as a deer. Hell I feel bad when I see a squashed squirrel in the road. Though if I were in the snipers position, and had a lead on someone lobbing mortars on my Marines, I'd put one between thier eyes without missing a beat. I've met a lot of guys who feel the same way, they would rather kill a human (that is a threat) than an animal any day.

Its not just a job, its a way of life🙂

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Train
I've never been hunting, (well, fishing, if that counts) I grew up in the inner city, our wild life was stray cats and pigeons. Got good with rifles after going through a hell of a lot of marksmanship training. from my expirience, breathing control and a smooth trigger pull is key, scope doesnt help nearly as much, IMO, as a steady hand, and a calm and concentrated composure. I would like to see what I could do with a higher caliber, all my point target shooting has been 5.56 (basically a high power 223) I've even considered transfering to the sniper unit in my battalion (I've got good enough marks to apply) Some of the snipers in my unit have the .50 cal bolt action (Drool) I'm not sure what the spec'ed range is, but I'd bet these things could take your head off at 2 miles on a good day

I probably couldnt bring myself to shoot many animals, maybe a deer if I was going to eat as much of it as possible. It just doesnt feel right shooting something as innocent as a deer. Hell I feel bad when I see a squashed squirrel in the road. Though if I were in the snipers position, and had a lead on someone lobbing mortars on my Marines, I'd put one between thier eyes without missing a beat. I've met a lot of guys who feel the same way, they would rather kill a human (that is a threat) than an animal any day.

I read an article someplace that did a study on marksman. They said that a world class marskman not only controls his breathing but actually stops his heart when he pulls the trigger. How cool is that. 🙂

As far as deer being innocent, i know of people killed in deer collisions. I know it's not the deers' fault, but if their population isn't controlled through hunting they will get so thick that they will die of disiese and starvation, not to mention being road hazards. It amazes me how man people from the big cities don't realize that. They also carry ticks that are carriers for a rather serious ailment know as lyme's disease.

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvbid/lyme/

And of course, squirrels are just rats with tails, so don't worry about them. There cute, but not cuddly.
The only things I would feel bad about killing would be domesticated animals that are pets. Dogs, cats, horses, etc.

 

[Whaspe]

Here's that long shot Canadians in Afghanistan. Now if only the Canadian government would fund these guys like they deserve.

 

[IAteYourMother]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: kage69

You must not be too experienced of as hunter if you haven't taken a few long shots?

What brings you to that conclusion? I'm unaware of a correlation between shooting distance and hunting/woodsmanship ability. I started hunting white tail and black bear when I was 14. Seeing as how my dad runs a commerical hunting and fishing camp in the boonies of Maine, I'd like to think I have a fair amount of experience. The woods in Maine are very thick, not too many open vistas in which to lay out super long shots. The farthest I've ever had to throw lead was 600yds with a .308Mag. I've heard of having to shoot that far when teh hunter is after say, big horn sheep, just not deer. If you can't approach within 400yds of a deer, prolly shouldn't be out in the woods! I guess some people just like to talk about shooting feats though.

Well, if age is the measurement, then I started big game hunting at 12. I guess you lose again. 🙂 I've also hunted Elk, Moose, and Bear in Canada. When you come out and do some plains hunting then tell me about bragging about "shooting prowness". I'm just stating th facts as I know them. If you think that's bragging that's fine with me.

When I'm meat hunting, I won't generally shoot at anything much over 300 yards and I usually take my does at 50 to 150 yards, but if I get a chance to shoot old mossy horns at 600 yards, I'll take that shot just about everytime (if he's standing still). It's really tough to get on a big buck in this open country unless you get lucky and someone runs one right by you. I spot them from the high points and stalk them, but sometimes there just out in open country and you can't even get close enough for a 600 yard shoot.

I farm and also run a pay pheasant hunting operation of strictly "wild" birds. I've been thinking of trying to start a small bow hunting operation because Out-of-State hunters (about the only ones willing to pay for a hunt) have a very hard time getting a rifle license and don't have enough lead time to get/plan for a hunt, but they can get bow licenses easily.

But you're from South Dakota, so you lose no matter what 😉

 

[Train]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Train
I've never been hunting, (well, fishing, if that counts) I grew up in the inner city, our wild life was stray cats and pigeons. Got good with rifles after going through a hell of a lot of marksmanship training. from my expirience, breathing control and a smooth trigger pull is key, scope doesnt help nearly as much, IMO, as a steady hand, and a calm and concentrated composure. I would like to see what I could do with a higher caliber, all my point target shooting has been 5.56 (basically a high power 223) I've even considered transfering to the sniper unit in my battalion (I've got good enough marks to apply) Some of the snipers in my unit have the .50 cal bolt action (Drool) I'm not sure what the spec'ed range is, but I'd bet these things could take your head off at 2 miles on a good day

I probably couldnt bring myself to shoot many animals, maybe a deer if I was going to eat as much of it as possible. It just doesnt feel right shooting something as innocent as a deer. Hell I feel bad when I see a squashed squirrel in the road. Though if I were in the snipers position, and had a lead on someone lobbing mortars on my Marines, I'd put one between thier eyes without missing a beat. I've met a lot of guys who feel the same way, they would rather kill a human (that is a threat) than an animal any day.

I read an article someplace that did a study on marksman. They said that a world class marskman not only controls his breathing but actually stops his heart when he pulls the trigger. How cool is that. 🙂

As far as deer being innocent, i know of people killed in deer collisions. I know it's not the deers' fault, but if their population isn't controlled through hunting they will get so thick that they will die of disiese and starvation, not to mention being road hazards. It amazes me how man people from the big cities don't realize that. They also carry ticks that are carriers for a rather serious ailment know as lyme's disease.

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvbid/lyme/

And of course, squirrels are just rats with tails, so don't worry about them. There cute, but not cuddly.
The only things I would feel bad about killing would be domesticated animals that are pets. Dogs, cats, horses, etc.

Ya I was going to mention the heart thing but thats pretty advanced, getting in tune with your own hearbeat is tough, often it requires some training with a biofeedback machine. And in combat, trying to calm your heart is quite a feat.

As for the deer population, you are right, I live in Michigan now, and its funny when the animal activists say that the deer population is in trouble because of urban sprawl and hunting. But the truth is the deer population here is larger than it ever was when this was a completely unsettled state. (it's been said that a squirrel could go from lake erie to lake michigan without touching the ground in the 1800's) Deer dont live in a forest, they live on the edges of forests, the medium sized brush that thrives between thick forests and openings, which there is more of now than ever. Hunting is a neccecity to keep the population down, you just wont find me out there shooting them. I've also heard from a lot of hunters around here that hunting season is getting overun by inexpirienced hunters, guys who shoot at anything that moves, dont practice proper safety, take the right classes, etc. Hunters are in more danger of shooting eachother these days. guys like you who were raised with a rifle and taught properly how to handle a weapon don't worry me, its these weekend wannabes that are ruining it for everybody. They are part of the reason Ohio doesnt allow rifle hunting anymore.

 

[Train]

Originally posted by: Ozoned
...

Its not just a job, its a way of life🙂

...

the fighting fifth! that regiment has some great history, I keep meaning to add thier book to my library.

 

[kage69]

Here's that long shot Canadians in Afghanistan. Now if only the Canadian government would fund these guys like they deserve.

Thanks, that's the one I was looking for. I was under the impression the Canadian military takes great care of their sniper teams; up until very recently they were afforded larger budgets and better equipment than even American sniper teams (I don't think this is the case anymore though). Where did you hear that?

 

[desy]

I think after Afghanistan the US realized the huge contribution snipers made, I think I read somewhere sniping accounted for more opposing combatant death than the artillery.
So they redirecting a lot more funding these days, cause its a load cheaper than feild peices.
CDN snipers are still treated bout the same, I think they are all members of JTF2?

 

[Train]

Originally posted by: kage69

Here's that long shot Canadians in Afghanistan. Now if only the Canadian government would fund these guys like they deserve.

Thanks, that's the one I was looking for. I was under the impression the Canadian military takes great care of their sniper teams; up until very recently they were afforded larger budgets and better equipment than even American sniper teams (I don't think this is the case anymore though). Where did you hear that?

I dont knw where you heard that, but American special forces literally have an UNLIMITED budget for gear.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: Train
I dont knw where you heard that, but American special forces literally have an UNLIMITED budget for gear.

We can tell, how much have they pissed away now in the failure they call iraq?

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: IAteYourMother


But you're from South Dakota, so you lose no matter what 😉

Ha!! It sure seems that way most of the time. We just convince ourselves that were winning, 🙂

A few years back we changed the name of the state from the Sunshine state (Florida had that one) to the Coyote state. They opened it up for suggestions, so I suggested we call it "The Next Year" state, buecause by god next year it's going to be different, LOL.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Train
I've also heard from a lot of hunters around here that hunting season is getting overun by inexpirienced hunters, guys who shoot at anything that moves, dont practice proper safety, take the right classes, etc. Hunters are in more danger of shooting eachother these days. guys like you who were raised with a rifle and taught properly how to handle a weapon don't worry me, its these weekend wannabes that are ruining it for everybody. They are part of the reason Ohio doesnt allow rifle hunting anymore.

Which is exactly why pay hunting works.

I for one don't like hunting crowded brushy areas. My wife is from southeren Minnesota. There not forests, but they are hilly and have trees growing around the edges of every river and steep draws. They only allow shotgun hunting there also. I think it is a good law too. I always tease my brother-in-laws about how their state won't trust them to hunt with a rifle. 🙂

I prefer to hunt out here in the wide open plains where the deers best cover is unharvested corn feilds. Good old corn fed deer is good eating. Yummy.

 

[Pliablemoose]

Obligatory SD pic: home

 

[Grunt03]

Way to go " Devil Dog "!!!!!!!

 

[ntdz]

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
Obligatory SD pic: home

I wonder what it'd be like to just stand out there knowing you are the only human within several miles. Something I probably won't experience living in Cali 🙂

 

[ajskydiver]

Originally posted by: Train
Firing on a range is a lot different than firing in falluja during combat. On a range you know exact distance, you have time to adjust for wind, temp, get your zeros, etc.

21" bullseyes is nothing special, I've nailed 6" bulls at 500 yards consistently. With just an M16, Nato 5.56, no scope

How can you even see a 6" target at 500 yards without any sort of magnification?

I've read a lot of exaggerations around here...but c'mon...this is really (really) hard to believe.

~AJ

 

[bjc112]

Originally posted by: nick1985
:thumbsup:

 

[Train]

Originally posted by: Aj_UF

Originally posted by: Train
Firing on a range is a lot different than firing in falluja during combat. On a range you know exact distance, you have time to adjust for wind, temp, get your zeros, etc.

21" bullseyes is nothing special, I've nailed 6" bulls at 500 yards consistently. With just an M16, Nato 5.56, no scope

How can you even see a 6" target at 500 yards without any sort of magnification?

I've read a lot of exaggerations around here...but c'mon...this is really (really) hard to believe.

~AJ

I never said I could "see" it. Hitting it is pretty common actually, its a man sized target, the 6 inch circle itself you cant see (its black on black anyways, only a thin white cirlce seperates the body from the inner circle), often its not on there so we draw them with chalk and a circle peice of cardboard. You just have to know its right in the middle of the chest. last time I was on the range, I had maybe 7 out of my 10 shots near dead center from the 500, and I was only "above average" of the Marines out there that day, there were quite a few getting scores higher than me. The center circle (or the head as some guys go for) isnt worth any more points, its just bragging rights.

heres a image I found with the target thats used at the 500 pic

And heres what the 500 yard looks like, notice there are no scopes on the rifles you can see in the pic, the targets are the itty-bitty white things in the background, yes its frikkin hard to see, but it wouldnt be any fun if it was easy. pic

 

[ajskydiver]

Hitting a target center mass is one thing...your post made it sound as if you were specifically hitting a 6" target at 500 yards -- but now that you've clarified, I understand what you meant. Thanks for the explanation...

I'm not sure if it was my interpretation or your original post - but either way, good shooting.

Leave it to Marines to brag about "head shotting"/center circle a silhoutte target at >300M (and keeping score when you can't see it? Sheesh 😉 ) - 'cause at that range, the front post is bigger than the target itself and it takes skill to hit the target but (for me) I don't believe you can say you intentionally hit anything if you can't actually see it - eg You know the target has a head, but you can't see it at 500 yards...just estimate where it would be.

~AJ

 

[imported_Condor]

Beautiful