Marijuana Significantly Increases a Person's Risk for Schizophrenia

[OOBradm]

Originally posted by: PHiuR
marijuana is a powerful drug...and this can defintely happen.
I get very self conscious when i smoke, maybe it's early signs of schizo?

your crazy

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: Armitage

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: Crono

Originally posted by: wkabel23
responsible drug use is possible (and it won't ruin your life!)

You're joking, right? Maybe it's possible for a drug like marijuana to not completely ruin your life, but there is no such thing as "responsible drug use" for the heavier stuff (I'm assuming you mean illicit drugs).

Sure there is. You just don't hear about it much because responsible drug users are not stupid. They realize what they do is illegal, so they aren't exactly going to talk about it often. Coke, meth, pills, etc don't have the acceptance of marijuana, but I can assure you they have do have responsible consumers out there. You'll meet some everyday, but you'll never know they are one.

Yea, but it's kind of a crap shoot now isn't it? Like playing russian roullete - but you don't know how many bullets are in the gun. Because addiction is a chemical/physical phenomena, and everybody has different addiction thresholds. And you develop tolerance to the drug so you have to keep taking more. And you never know quite how strong a particular batch is until you try it.

Sounds pretty fvcking stupid to me. I've seen enough otherwise "responsible" people get screwed up on drugs.

Of course it is. But I'm just letting the poster know that everyone is different.

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: Armitage
I've been doing some research on Schizophrenia and came across this bit. I'm sure it will kick up a firestorm here, so I'm just going to drop this one in here and run.

http://www.schizophrenia.com/prevention/cannabis.marijuana.schizophrenia.html

Overview: Use of street drugs (especially marijuana/hash/cannabis) have been linked with significantly increased probability of developing schizophrenia. This link has been documented in over 30 different scientific studies (studies done mostly in the UK, Australia and Sweden) over the past 20 years. In one example, a study interviewed 50,000 members of the Swedish Army about their drug consumption and followed up with them later in life. Those who were heavy consumers of cannabis at age 18 were over 600% more likely to be diagnosed with schizophrenia over the next 15 years than those did not take it. (see diagram below). Experts estimate that between 8% and 13% of all schizophrenia cases are linked to marijuna / cannabis use during teen years.

A recent Dutch study showed that teenagers who indulge in cannabis as few as five times in their life significantly increase their risk of psychotic symptoms.

"People with such a vulnerability (a family history of mental illness) should avoid cannabis like the plague," he said.

nah, it's just that schizoids tend to smoke pot. :laugh:

 

[aidanjm]

this is old news, and not really sufficient justification to criminalize use of dope in my opinion

 

[imported_booradley]

Originally posted by: Titan
One simple question. Was this study independently verified? As in did another, unassociated lab conduct it as well?

If not, it is worth questioning the motives of the single lab.

Exactly. Scientific bias FTL.

EDIT:

Originally posted by: aidanjm
this is old news, and not really sufficient justification to criminalize use of dope in my opinion

Just for the record (and this is for everyone), "dope" is not marijuana, but in fact herion. The term is misued constantly, and I really feel the early Y2K and late 90's drug commercials are to blame. What a better way to put a bad stigma on a drug than to use the slang name of herion for it...

 

[Armitage]

Originally posted by: Accipiter22
and no, a lot of researchers are in a huirry to have their name's published. I coudl've my junior year of college if i wanted to. Just because it's a published peer-reviewed study doesn't mean it's proof. I hate garbage like that original study in the OP

Over 30 studies from several different countries - some of which have much more liberal drug laws then the US (ie. Holland). But whatever helps you sleep at night I guess.

Cigarettes don't cause cancer either - it's all a conspiracy.

 

[eits]

ok? this isn't exactly new news.

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: Titan
One simple question. Was this study independently verified? As in did another, unassociated lab conduct it as well?

If not, it is worth questioning the motives of the single lab.

nih published this a LOOONG time ago... of course it's a verified study.

like i said, this is all old news.

 

[Malak]

Originally posted by: Armitage

Originally posted by: Accipiter22
and no, a lot of researchers are in a huirry to have their name's published. I coudl've my junior year of college if i wanted to. Just because it's a published peer-reviewed study doesn't mean it's proof. I hate garbage like that original study in the OP

Over 30 studies from several different countries - some of which have much more liberal drug laws then the US (ie. Holland). But whatever helps you sleep at night I guess.

Cigarettes don't cause cancer either - it's all a conspiracy.

Armitage, there is a saying that is great for times like this. Let the dead bury the dead. If people want to ignore the risks of using drugs(both legal and illegal), let them kill themselves and their patriots bury them. Say what you want to say, and leave it at that. You can only warn, and hope to convince, but don't waste time arguing with them.

 

[etalns]

Originally posted by: LadyBuggy

Originally posted by: MixMasterTang
Maybe people that are likely to already have early signs of schizophrenia are 600% more likely to smoke marijuana than people without early signs of schizophrenia.

I was thinking along the same lines. Correlation /= causation. Maybe there's some other connection.

Precisely so!

 

[CKent]

Research often has conflicting findings. This is because it's a thankless field where researchers get paid to find what their grantors want them to. No, there's not a thing wrong with unchecked capitalism... but I digress. The point is don't put much faith in study findings unless they're repeated often by researchers with varied agendas and little evidence to the contrary is found.

Originally posted by: Malak
Armitage, there is a saying that is great for times like this. Let the dead bury the dead. If people want to ignore the risks of using drugs(both legal and illegal), let them kill themselves and their patriots bury them. Say what you want to say, and leave it at that. You can only warn, and hope to convince, but don't waste time arguing with them.

Are you trying to take credit for mBg's work? Certainly seems that way based on your sig.

 

[Krazefinn]

Originally posted by: Atheus
connection != causality

"In reply to the "responsible drug use" with "heavier stuff", it is most definately possible, I know from experience. People do not recognise that many of the drugs prescribed by doctors are illegal drugs by another name. If you go into hospital and have morphine for pain you are getting heroin, it's the same thing, and it doesn't ruin the lives of the people given it. Similarly many children are prescribed amphetamines for ADD - that's the same amphetamine as in methamphetamine or 'meth'. I believe that the correlation between mental illness and drug use is primarily due the fact that mentally unstable individuals are more likely to abuse drugs, not the other way round. This abuse will likely worsen their illness, but if a normal person uses a drug reponsibly, they will not suddenly become mentally ill."
__________________________________________________________________________
Meth (aka crystal meth, etc) is a hallucinogenic amphetamine.... actually quite unrelated to adderal or ritalin.

 

[tweakmm]

Originally posted by: Krazefinn

Originally posted by: Atheus
connection != causality

"In reply to the "responsible drug use" with "heavier stuff", it is most definately possible, I know from experience. People do not recognise that many of the drugs prescribed by doctors are illegal drugs by another name. If you go into hospital and have morphine for pain you are getting heroin, it's the same thing, and it doesn't ruin the lives of the people given it. Similarly many children are prescribed amphetamines for ADD - that's the same amphetamine as in methamphetamine or 'meth'. I believe that the correlation between mental illness and drug use is primarily due the fact that mentally unstable individuals are more likely to abuse drugs, not the other way round. This abuse will likely worsen their illness, but if a normal person uses a drug reponsibly, they will not suddenly become mentally ill."

Meth (aka crystal meth, etc) is a hallucinogenic amphetamine.... actually quite unrelated to adderal or ritalin.

Hallucinogenic amphetamine? :laugh:
Quite unrelated to adderall? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

You really should make sure you know what you are talking about before you make comments that make you look stupid.

The only reason you hear people "hallucinating" off of meth is because people go on benders for days forgoing sleep for another bump or hit off the pipe. If one doesn't sleep for a few days, one will start hallucinating, meth or not.

As for it being quite unrelated to adderall, it is basically the same thing. A better example would be dexedrine as adderal is a combination of amphetamine and it's salts, but it's all about the same. Dexedrine is just pure amphetamine. Methamphetamine is amphetamine with a methyl group attached, making it easier to enter the blood-brain barrier, making it last longer and more poweful. That's it.
Although not as common now, methamphetamine is still made pharmaceutically and is possible to get a prescription for. Yes, one can get a prescription for meth.


As per the OP, anybody who has spent more than 15 minutes in a statistics class knows that correlation does not equal causation.

 

[CKent]

Originally posted by: tweakmm
As per the OP, anybody who has spent more than 15 minutes in a statistics class knows that correlation does not equal causation.

But... But... I want to believe it's dangerous! 😉

 

[preslove]

So, basically all this research indicates is that Cannabis use can trigger Schizophrenia in those with pre-existing genetic predispositions?

Text

Cannabis use is associated with poor outcome in existing schizophrenia and may precipitate psychosis in individuals with preexisting liability. To investigate the overall effect size and consistency of the association between cannabis and psychosis, a meta-analysis from prospective studies was carried out. The pooled odds ratio was 2.1 (95% CI: 1.7-2.5) and could not be explained by confounding or reverse causality. Evidence suggests that cannabis is a component cause in the development and prognosis of psychosis, in which mechanisms of gene-environment interaction are most likely to explain this association. Potential new methods to directly link genetic liability to the effects of cannabis are discussed.

And is only one of several possible triggers:
Text

Schizophrenia is an aetiologically heterogeneous syndrome that usually becomes overtly manifest in adolescence and early adulthood, but in many cases subtle impairments in neurointegrative function are present from birth; hence it is considered to be a disorder with a neurodevelopmental component. The strongest risk factor that has been identified is familial risk with genetic loading. Other risk factors include pregnancy and delivery complications, infections during pregnancy, disturbances of early neuromotor and cognitive development and heavy cannabis use in adolescence. Unfortunately, to date it has not been possible to utilize the predictors of the disorder that have been identified in primary preventative interventions in a general population. However, some authors have claimed that in future it might be possible to reduce the risk for developing schizophrenia through general health policy. In clinical settings, it is helpful to map out possible early risk factors, at least familial risk for psychosis, especially in child, adolescent and young adult mental patients. Furthermore, in the future we may have predictive models combining data from genetic factors for schizophrenia, antenatal risk factors, childhood and adolescent development and clinical symptomatology, as well as brain structural and functional abnormalities.

It is only one possible causal factor of Schizophrenia. If you do not have the subtle genetic predisposition towards Schizophrenia then smoking weed isn't going to make you go crazy. Which is better policy: Banning all use of marijuana because an extremely small section of the population who could potentially have Schizophrenia could trigger their condition with its use? Or a public mental health campaign that tells people not to do certain things, among which are currently illegal drugs, if they have familial or other risk factors associated with Schizo?

 

[imported_booradley]

Originally posted by: tweakmm

Originally posted by: Krazefinn

Originally posted by: Atheus
connection != causality

"In reply to the "responsible drug use" with "heavier stuff", it is most definately possible, I know from experience. People do not recognise that many of the drugs prescribed by doctors are illegal drugs by another name. If you go into hospital and have morphine for pain you are getting heroin, it's the same thing, and it doesn't ruin the lives of the people given it. Similarly many children are prescribed amphetamines for ADD - that's the same amphetamine as in methamphetamine or 'meth'. I believe that the correlation between mental illness and drug use is primarily due the fact that mentally unstable individuals are more likely to abuse drugs, not the other way round. This abuse will likely worsen their illness, but if a normal person uses a drug reponsibly, they will not suddenly become mentally ill."

Meth (aka crystal meth, etc) is a hallucinogenic amphetamine.... actually quite unrelated to adderal or ritalin.

Hallucinogenic amphetamine? :laugh:
Quite unrelated to adderall? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

You really should make sure you know what you are talking about before you make comments that makes you look stupid.

The only reason you hear people "hallucinating" off of meth is because people go on benders for days forgoing sleep for another bump or hit off the pipe. If one doesn't sleep for a few days, one will start hallucinating, meth or not.

As for it being quite unrelated to adderall, it is basically the same thing. A better example would be dexedrine as adderal is a combination of amphetamine and it's salts, but it's all about the same. Dexedrine is just pure amphetamine. Methamphetamine is amphetamine with a methyl group attached, making it easier to enter the blood-brain barrier, making it last longer and more poweful. That's it.
Although not as common now, methamphetamine is still made pharmaceutically and is possible to get a prescription for. Yes, one can get a prescription for meth.


As per the OP, anybody who has spent more than 15 minutes in a statistics class knows that correlation does not equal causation.

The man speaks the truth. You would be amazed what you're putting your kids on for their "ADHD".

 

[maziwanka]

i love how "use of marijuana has been linked with significantly increased probability of developing schizophrenia" becomes "use of marijuana significantly increases probability of developing schizophrenia."

 

[imported_Phil]

I'm boned.

 

[Udel]

Doubt it.

 

[Krazefinn]

precisely my point. The prescription amphetamine salts are pure amphetamines. Crystal meth is not...

crystal meth is a known powerful hallucinogen combined with a bathtub amphetamine.

And I do know of which I post. Advanced psych nursing credentials, cap certified, and major in pharmacology.

just like the previous analogy w morphine and heroin, although some shared pharmacokinetic characteristics, certainly not the same thing.

just like dronabid is not pot either...just because methyl alcohol shares some chemistry with ethanol, would you ingest it? me thinks and hopes not..

 

[tweakmm]

Originally posted by: Krazefinn
crystal meth is a known powerful hallucinogen combined with a bathtub amphetamine.

Wait, so crystal meth is a combination of hallucinogens and amphetamines?

I did not know that.

 

[imported_Phil]

Originally posted by: tweakmm

Originally posted by: Krazefinn
crystal meth is a known powerful hallucinogen combined with a bathtub amphetamine.

Wait, so crystal meth is a combination of hallucinogens and amphetamines?

I did not know that.

Take it from me, you don't want it. It's enormously addictive.

 

[Krazefinn]

Crystal, and the "considered somewhat safe" x-ghb, etc and its variants are also very dangerous. partly because the bathtub chemists cooking it often don't know what they actually produce, conditions are not clean, and the only concern is amount of product, not safety or purity...
BTW a tipoff with someone intoxicated on meth...they tend to present with pinpoint pupils, and sweaty upper lip or eyebrow.omeone dabbling with meth will eventually go off on deepend, the psychosis brings intense paranoia, and epidemiologically shown something like 90% of them end up either taking own life, or someone close/family. If intervention doesnt occur. 5 yr remission of abuse also dismal.
marijuana intoxication makes "crossing eyes" almost impossible. Opiate use also causes pinpoint pupils. There are many little, often specific physically observable signs of use...so although many can hide their use for awhile, close observation for these specific signs can be tipoff.

psilocybin/other hallucinogenic 'shroom use is on the upswing...as are often little known south american/african/far eastern "herbals"

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: RBachman

Originally posted by: tweakmm
As per the OP, anybody who has spent more than 15 minutes in a statistics class knows that correlation does not equal causation.

But... But... I want to believe it's dangerous! 😉

however, in this case, anyone who has spent time learning neuroanatomy and neurobiology knows that there is a causation effect of marijuana on the limbic system and causes schizophrenic-like behavior.

 

[tweakmm]

Originally posted by: Krazefinn
Crystal, and the "considered somewhat safe" x-ghb, etc and its variants are also very dangerous. partly because the bathtub chemists cooking it often don't know what they actually produce, conditions are not clean, and the only concern is amount of product, not safety or purity...
BTW a tipoff with someone intoxicated on meth...they tend to present with pinpoint pupils, and sweaty upper lip or eyebrow.omeone dabbling with meth will eventually go off on deepend, the psychosis brings intense paranoia, and epidemiologically shown something like 90% of them end up either taking own life, or someone close/family. If intervention doesnt occur. 5 yr remission of abuse also dismal.
marijuana intoxication makes "crossing eyes" almost impossible. Opiate use also causes pinpoint pupils. There are many little, often specific physically observable signs of use...so although many can hide their use for awhile, close observation for these specific signs can be tipoff.

psilocybin/other hallucinogenic 'shroom use is on the upswing...as are often little known south american/african/far eastern "herbals"

You avoided the question.

You stated that meth is a combination of a hallucinogen and amphetamines. This is correct right?