Marajuana and CIA / NSA Jobs

[NuclearFusi0n]

Originally posted by: brxndxn
Yea.. if you go around preaching it.. If he hasn't done it in a while, then he'll get by. If he still does it, then he better get good at clearing his system. Every professional workplace administers drug tests now (illegal search, IMO).

Also, a hair test will last much longer in the system. A spinal tap test will last forever - but they're practically illegal. They're dangerous.

that spinal tap thing is a myth. there is a myriad of psychoactive substances in your spinal fluid IIRC....

...and its some of the harshest pain you'll ever imagine

 

[tweakmm]

Originally posted by: NuclearFusi0n
that spinal tap thing is a myth. there is a myriad of psychoactive substances in your spinal fluid IIRC....

that might explain why reality is such a trip

 

they WILL make you take a polygraph. And if you lie, kiss the job goodbye.

 

[AndrewR]

Originally posted by: randal
Working a DoD contractor job, I can say with affirmation that having done pot is not a big deal. Hell, everybody's smoked a joint. As long as you are up front and okay with it, i.e. nobody could blackmail you with that info, then you're in the green. That goes for damn near anything -- including the waaay out there questions they ask when you go for your TS/SCI (or so I hear).

For just a plain secret clearance, having done drugs is equivalent to drinking. no biggie.

Edit: You don't get a polygraph test until you go for your TS/SCI. Secret is just a background check, drug test and an interview, TS is an indepth background check, maybe less depending on who you know ... TS/Poly and TS/SCI both require a polygraph to be taken, but honestly, that is *way* down the road; getting anything other than a normal Secret clearance usually takes a long time (career progression wise).

The misinformation is flying around here!

There is NOT a polygraph requirement for a TS/SCI clearance, but they do ask you an enormous amount of questions. They'll also talk to as many people as they need to in order to get a clear picture of how you have lived prior to the investigation. In other words, don't expect to hide anything. The polygraph is required for certain types of jobs, however, but I really only know of one agency in particular that uses it. I am sure that there are others that do also.

Plus, if you lie in obtaining your clearance and something comes out later which reveals it, they will immediately pull your clearance, and you lose your job (depending on severity, of course). You will NEVER even remotely come near classified material again if they do pull your clearance.

And by the way, there are millions of people in this country who have never and will never do illegal drugs. I have no compunction with making illegal drug use an immediate and irrevocable bar to ever receiving a security clearance. We should not provide access to information which if released poses a grave threat to national security to people who cannot obey the law. If they do not take drug laws seriously, then what is stopping them from approaching national security with the same cavalier attitude? It only takes "one moment of weakness" to wreak immense harm on national security.

 

[Armitage]

Originally posted by: AndrewR

Originally posted by: randal
Working a DoD contractor job, I can say with affirmation that having done pot is not a big deal. Hell, everybody's smoked a joint. As long as you are up front and okay with it, i.e. nobody could blackmail you with that info, then you're in the green. That goes for damn near anything -- including the waaay out there questions they ask when you go for your TS/SCI (or so I hear).

For just a plain secret clearance, having done drugs is equivalent to drinking. no biggie.

Edit: You don't get a polygraph test until you go for your TS/SCI. Secret is just a background check, drug test and an interview, TS is an indepth background check, maybe less depending on who you know ... TS/Poly and TS/SCI both require a polygraph to be taken, but honestly, that is *way* down the road; getting anything other than a normal Secret clearance usually takes a long time (career progression wise).

The misinformation is flying around here!

There is NOT a polygraph requirement for a TS/SCI clearance, but they do ask you an enormous amount of questions. They'll also talk to as many people as they need to in order to get a clear picture of how you have lived prior to the investigation. In other words, don't expect to hide anything. The polygraph is required for certain types of jobs, however, but I really only know of one agency in particular that uses it. I am sure that there are others that do also.

Plus, if you lie in obtaining your clearance and something comes out later which reveals it, they will immediately pull your clearance, and you lose your job (depending on severity, of course). You will NEVER even remotely come near classified material again if they do pull your clearance.

And by the way, there are millions of people in this country who have never and will never do illegal drugs. I have no compunction with making illegal drug use an immediate and irrevocable bar to ever receiving a security clearance. We should not provide access to information which if released poses a grave threat to national security to people who cannot obey the law. If they do not take drug laws seriously, then what is stopping them from approaching national security with the same cavalier attitude? It only takes "one moment of weakness" to wreak immense harm on national security.

A poly is not required to GET a TS/SCI, but, AFAIK, it is required to KEEP it, ie. at reinvestigation time, 5 years.
What you friend should be worried about if he plans on lying about it is not the poly, but anybody in his past that they decide to interview who may let it slip. And they will talk to alot of people from your past. Better to be up front and honest about it and let the chips fall where they may ... that's a choice he made when he decided to do drugs. It can and does affect your career down the road.

 

[AndrewR]

Originally posted by: ergeorge
A poly is not required to GET a TS/SCI, but, AFAIK, it is required to KEEP it, ie. at reinvestigation time, 5 years.

Nope. I handle SCI security at my installation so I do know what I am talking about on this subject.

 

[UltraQuiet]

Originally posted by: ergeorge

Originally posted by: AndrewR

Originally posted by: randal
Working a DoD contractor job, I can say with affirmation that having done pot is not a big deal. Hell, everybody's smoked a joint. As long as you are up front and okay with it, i.e. nobody could blackmail you with that info, then you're in the green. That goes for damn near anything -- including the waaay out there questions they ask when you go for your TS/SCI (or so I hear).

For just a plain secret clearance, having done drugs is equivalent to drinking. no biggie.

Edit: You don't get a polygraph test until you go for your TS/SCI. Secret is just a background check, drug test and an interview, TS is an indepth background check, maybe less depending on who you know ... TS/Poly and TS/SCI both require a polygraph to be taken, but honestly, that is *way* down the road; getting anything other than a normal Secret clearance usually takes a long time (career progression wise).

The misinformation is flying around here!

There is NOT a polygraph requirement for a TS/SCI clearance, but they do ask you an enormous amount of questions. They'll also talk to as many people as they need to in order to get a clear picture of how you have lived prior to the investigation. In other words, don't expect to hide anything. The polygraph is required for certain types of jobs, however, but I really only know of one agency in particular that uses it. I am sure that there are others that do also.

Plus, if you lie in obtaining your clearance and something comes out later which reveals it, they will immediately pull your clearance, and you lose your job (depending on severity, of course). You will NEVER even remotely come near classified material again if they do pull your clearance.

And by the way, there are millions of people in this country who have never and will never do illegal drugs. I have no compunction with making illegal drug use an immediate and irrevocable bar to ever receiving a security clearance. We should not provide access to information which if released poses a grave threat to national security to people who cannot obey the law. If they do not take drug laws seriously, then what is stopping them from approaching national security with the same cavalier attitude? It only takes "one moment of weakness" to wreak immense harm on national security.

A poly is not required to GET a TS/SCI, but, AFAIK, it is required to KEEP it, ie. at reinvestigation time, 5 years.
What you friend should be worried about if he plans on lying about it is not the poly, but anybody in his past that they decide to interview who may let it slip. And they will talk to alot of people from your past. Better to be up front and honest about it and let the chips fall where they may ... that's a choice he made when he decided to do drugs. It can and does affect your career down the road.

It is really dependent on the particular circumstances. I have a TS/SCI and I have never taken a polygraph even at recert. My wife, who is GS, took one for her initial cert but didn't have to take one at recert. However she is required to do urinalysis because of her clearance.

To the OP -- Tell your 'friend' not to lie.

 

[LinuxIdiot]

Hell I had to take a polygraphic to become a dispatcher for the local police dept, what makes some of you think you would not have to take one for the CIA/NSA?

 

[rudder]

Originally posted by: technogeeky
Hey folks,

My hall-mate is a Comp E major and is interested in a cooperative education job at the CIA or NSA. He has used drugs in the past, but he's clean (he smoked once or twice about 4 years ago).

What is the deal with this type of thing. Does marajuana use really entirely disqualify you from working as CIA or NSA or other Top-Secret clearences.

Drug use will not disqualify him. He will probably be given a polygraph and will be asked about past drug use. Federal guidelines I think say that you can't have used drugs within the last year. 4 years is no big deal, he can try to get on past the polygraph or he can just be upfront and say he used inthe past but its been over 4 years.

 

[Jzero]

And by the way, there are millions of people in this country who have never and will never do illegal drugs. I have no compunction with making illegal drug use an immediate and irrevocable bar to ever receiving a security clearance. We should not provide access to information which if released poses a grave threat to national security to people who cannot obey the law. If they do not take drug laws seriously, then what is stopping them from approaching national security with the same cavalier attitude? It only takes "one moment of weakness" to wreak immense harm on national security.

I feel the same way about speeders, jaywalkers and people who don't use their turn signals. I can't believe we entrust our safety and security to these good-for-nothing scofflaws.

Edit forgot smiley.

 

[Armitage]

Originally posted by: AndrewR

Originally posted by: ergeorge
A poly is not required to GET a TS/SCI, but, AFAIK, it is required to KEEP it, ie. at reinvestigation time, 5 years.

Nope. I handle SCI security at my installation so I do know what I am talking about on this subject.

I guess it depends on your tickets & sponsoring organization then. Because I know some places where it is required.
But that's as far as we need to go in this forum.

 

[FoBoT]

secret / top secret clearances require a back ground check. they will talk to people from his past and might ask about stuff like drug use.

i think it could be a problem

 

[FoBoT]

Originally posted by: pyonir
Read this concerning the CIA http://www.cia.gov/cia/employment/before2.htm

the way i read that is, if you haven't done it in a while and don't lie about it, we'll probably be ok about it. but if you lie, you are OUT

If you are a recent or frequent user of illegal drugs, including marijuana, you need to know that CIA is a drug-free workplace. Drug abuse is one of the common reasons a security clearance is denied to applicants.

 

[TheeeChosenOne]

The CIA and NSA know people experiment with drugs--usually in college. They want you to be *honest* when they ask you, b/c when they do a background check on you in the final round and find you to have taken drugs, you will be *disqualified* for dishonesty (as drug taking is a *social* activity and someone will rat on you).......They do these investigations so that no spies can use it or anything else *against* you to betray the USA at a later time.

I know people in these orgs. that *didn't* lie about their drug use and are working there. Now if you had a chronic drug *problem* and were addicted rather than just the occassional joint, then you won't get in. It makes sense, doesn't it, to not give a valued CIA position to an alcoholic or crack-head who can go *back* to that habit at any given time?


The key is to *NOT* lie. Make sure he's clean for testing. And that he's not a chronic user (at any time)--the real deal-buster. If he's a pot-head, nothing will save him. If he's Bill Clinton *in the past user*, then he's fine.

 

[AndrewR]

Originally posted by: ergeorge

Originally posted by: AndrewR

Originally posted by: ergeorge
A poly is not required to GET a TS/SCI, but, AFAIK, it is required to KEEP it, ie. at reinvestigation time, 5 years.

Nope. I handle SCI security at my installation so I do know what I am talking about on this subject.

I guess it depends on your tickets & sponsoring organization then. Because I know some places where it is required.
But that's as far as we need to go in this forum.

See my initial post. I was commenting on the blanket statement that it's always required.

One last comment: Anything more than "experimental" use is disqualification to becoming an officer (at least it was in the early '90s). There was one guy I knew who "experimented 35 times" (he literally wrote that) with marijuana and was denied a commission.

 

[Kilgor]

I think it differs from Agency to Agency but to even get a Secret Security Clearence from the CIA you need to take a polygraph NSA I'm not sure about. The best thing for your friend to do is to admit to smoking pot he should be alright.

I think they make exceptions for the military and other Agencies.

 

[hans007]

Originally posted by: AndrewR

Originally posted by: randal
Working a DoD contractor job, I can say with affirmation that having done pot is not a big deal. Hell, everybody's smoked a joint. As long as you are up front and okay with it, i.e. nobody could blackmail you with that info, then you're in the green. That goes for damn near anything -- including the waaay out there questions they ask when you go for your TS/SCI (or so I hear).

For just a plain secret clearance, having done drugs is equivalent to drinking. no biggie.

Edit: You don't get a polygraph test until you go for your TS/SCI. Secret is just a background check, drug test and an interview, TS is an indepth background check, maybe less depending on who you know ... TS/Poly and TS/SCI both require a polygraph to be taken, but honestly, that is *way* down the road; getting anything other than a normal Secret clearance usually takes a long time (career progression wise).

The misinformation is flying around here!

There is NOT a polygraph requirement for a TS/SCI clearance, but they do ask you an enormous amount of questions. They'll also talk to as many people as they need to in order to get a clear picture of how you have lived prior to the investigation. In other words, don't expect to hide anything. The polygraph is required for certain types of jobs, however, but I really only know of one agency in particular that uses it. I am sure that there are others that do also.

Plus, if you lie in obtaining your clearance and something comes out later which reveals it, they will immediately pull your clearance, and you lose your job (depending on severity, of course). You will NEVER even remotely come near classified material again if they do pull your clearance.

And by the way, there are millions of people in this country who have never and will never do illegal drugs. I have no compunction with making illegal drug use an immediate and irrevocable bar to ever receiving a security clearance. We should not provide access to information which if released poses a grave threat to national security to people who cannot obey the law. If they do not take drug laws seriously, then what is stopping them from approaching national security with the same cavalier attitude? It only takes "one moment of weakness" to wreak immense harm on national security.

i cant believe you are so hardline. thats like saying, oh so and so cant work for the government because they pirated an mp3. there are plenty of very drug free idiots out there, who out of sheer idiocy would harm national security, yet they can still get the job.

 

[Spamela]

Originally posted by: AndrewR

Originally posted by: ergeorge
A poly is not required to GET a TS/SCI, but, AFAIK, it is required to KEEP it, ie. at reinvestigation time, 5 years.

Nope. I handle SCI security at my installation so I do know what I am talking about on this subject.

where i work, the SCI clearances don't require a polygraph, although there is strong pressure to take the test.

in response to the orginal post, the key thing is to TELL THE TRUTH.
here, you won't necessarily be denied any security clearance solely due to a history of drug usage.
however, they don't look kindly at liars.

your friend should be able to just call up the HR departments of the agencies & ASK anonymously.

 

[Jmman]

Yeah, the best recommendation I can make to tell the truth. I worked closely with the same agency that "interviewed" Manual Norriega, and these guys will get the information out of you one way or another. I would not try to conceal or lie, because I can virtually guarantee that you will be discovered......