Manchester overclocks better than Toledo?

[Bona Fide]

I was browsing reviews yesterday when I saw some review site make the blanket statement that Manchester cores overclock better than Toledo cores.

I find that hard to believe...

My 4400+ is at 11x235 (2585MHz) at 1.45V and is 100% stable. This is basically an out-of-box overclock, because I just ran the computer at stock for about an hour to ensure that all parts were working and all drivers were updated. Then I went straight to OC'ing and this is the end result.

The 3800+ X2 is also a Toledo core and I've been hearing reports of overclocks up to 2.6GHz! AT was barely able to get their 4200+ up to 2.7GHz, so that statement is horribly wrong.

Any input? Maybe some scientific/statistical insight?

 

[imported_Kensai]

3800+ X2 = Manchester..

 

[Bona Fide]

Originally posted by: Kensai
3800+ X2 = Manchester..

That's not what Tankguys.com says. Look at the Detailed Description (the red text).
http://www.tankguys.biz/athlon64-3800-p-1369.html

 

[AnImuS]

Well my recently purchased X2 3800+ is at 2.7ghz 1.5v. Currently testing. 2hrs into prime so far. :beer:

 

[Vegitto]

Originally posted by: Bona Fide

Originally posted by: Kensai
3800+ X2 = Manchester..

That's not what Tankguys.com says. Look at the Detailed Description (the red text).
http://www.tankguys.biz/athlon64-3800-p-1369.html

Well, if that's what Tankguys is saying, that just means that Tankguys is wrong. X2 3800+ is Manchester.

 

[TankGuys]

Originally posted by: Vegitto

Originally posted by: Bona Fide

Originally posted by: Kensai
3800+ X2 = Manchester..

That's not what Tankguys.com says. Look at the Detailed Description (the red text).
http://www.tankguys.biz/athlon64-3800-p-1369.html

Well, if that's what Tankguys is saying, that just means that Tankguys is wrong. X2 3800+ is Manchester.

Honestly, now I don't even know. Nobody seems to agree on this. What I DO know is that it's an E6 stepping, and the model number (on the chip listed on our site) is correct; I'm staring at the boxes.

However, depending on who you ask, it may be Manchester, it may be Toledo... I'm just not sure yet....

 

[lmadern]

If we are to believe our current host, then Vegitto is correct as shown in the following link:

3800+ article

 

[Vegitto]

Originally posted by: TankGuys

Originally posted by: Vegitto

Originally posted by: Bona Fide

Originally posted by: Kensai
3800+ X2 = Manchester..

That's not what Tankguys.com says. Look at the Detailed Description (the red text).
http://www.tankguys.biz/athlon64-3800-p-1369.html

Well, if that's what Tankguys is saying, that just means that Tankguys is wrong. X2 3800+ is Manchester.

Honestly, now I don't even know. Nobody seems to agree on this. What I DO know is that it's an E6 stepping, and the model number (on the chip listed on our site) is correct; I'm staring at the boxes.

However, depending on who you ask, it may be Manchester, it may be Toledo... I'm just not sure yet....

They have 512 KB's of cache PER CORE, so that makes it a Manchester. The 4000+ version with 1 MB of cache PER CORE won't be available in a week or 3.

 

[TankGuys]

Originally posted by: Vegitto

Originally posted by: TankGuys

Originally posted by: Vegitto

Originally posted by: Bona Fide

Originally posted by: Kensai
3800+ X2 = Manchester..

That's not what Tankguys.com says. Look at the Detailed Description (the red text).
http://www.tankguys.biz/athlon64-3800-p-1369.html

Well, if that's what Tankguys is saying, that just means that Tankguys is wrong. X2 3800+ is Manchester.

Honestly, now I don't even know. Nobody seems to agree on this. What I DO know is that it's an E6 stepping, and the model number (on the chip listed on our site) is correct; I'm staring at the boxes.

However, depending on who you ask, it may be Manchester, it may be Toledo... I'm just not sure yet....

They have 512 KB's of cache PER CORE, so that makes it a Manchester. The 4000+ version with 1 MB of cache PER CORE won't be available in a week or 3.

You are right, but wrong at the same time...

Some of the 3800's DO have the toledo core, but have half the cache disabled. So they are still the Toledo core, but with half the cache.

From what I can tell it goes like this:

ADA3800DAA5CD = Toledo core, 1Mb Cache, but only 512Kb enabled.
ADA3800DAA5BV = Manchester, 512Kb Cache by default.

It seems this holds true based on model numbers from other X2's. For example, the 4600 (which only has 512Kb of cache per core by default) has the model name:
ADA4600DAA5BV

And the OEM 4200, which only has 512Kb each by default is:
ADA4200DAA5BV

 

[imported_Kensai]

Originally posted by: TankGuys

Originally posted by: Vegitto

Originally posted by: TankGuys

Originally posted by: Vegitto

Originally posted by: Bona Fide

Originally posted by: Kensai
3800+ X2 = Manchester..

That's not what Tankguys.com says. Look at the Detailed Description (the red text).
http://www.tankguys.biz/athlon64-3800-p-1369.html

Well, if that's what Tankguys is saying, that just means that Tankguys is wrong. X2 3800+ is Manchester.

Honestly, now I don't even know. Nobody seems to agree on this. What I DO know is that it's an E6 stepping, and the model number (on the chip listed on our site) is correct; I'm staring at the boxes.

However, depending on who you ask, it may be Manchester, it may be Toledo... I'm just not sure yet....

They have 512 KB's of cache PER CORE, so that makes it a Manchester. The 4000+ version with 1 MB of cache PER CORE won't be available in a week or 3.

You are right, but wrong at the same time...

Some of the 3800's DO have the toledo core, but have half the cache disabled. So they are still the Toledo core, but with half the cache.

From what I can tell it goes like this:

ADA3800DAA5CD = Toledo core, 1Mb Cache, but only 512Kb enabled.
ADA3800DAA5BV = Manchester, 512Kb Cache by default.

It seems this holds true based on model numbers from other X2's. For example, the 4600 (which only has 512Kb of cache per core by default) has the model name:
ADA4600DAA5BV

And the OEM 4200, which only has 512Kb each by default is:
ADA4200DAA5BV

I agree completely. There are both Manchester and Toledo versions of the X2 3800+.
The Manchester version being cheaper and easier to produce. (AMD's costs)

 

[TankGuys]

Originally posted by: Kensai

I agree completely. There are both Manchester and Toledo versions of the X2 3800+.
The Manchester version being cheaper and easier to produce. (AMD's costs)

Which brings up an interesting point...

The toledo core has a bigger die size and thus *may* OC worse. On the other hand, they never set out to make a 1Mb per core 3800 yet, so it's likely a speed binned 4400. As such, do they perhaps have slightly better OC potential? It would be interesting to see...

 

[Hacp]

Originally posted by: TankGuys

Originally posted by: Vegitto

Originally posted by: TankGuys

Originally posted by: Vegitto

Originally posted by: Bona Fide

Originally posted by: Kensai
3800+ X2 = Manchester..

That's not what Tankguys.com says. Look at the Detailed Description (the red text).
http://www.tankguys.biz/athlon64-3800-p-1369.html

Well, if that's what Tankguys is saying, that just means that Tankguys is wrong. X2 3800+ is Manchester.

Honestly, now I don't even know. Nobody seems to agree on this. What I DO know is that it's an E6 stepping, and the model number (on the chip listed on our site) is correct; I'm staring at the boxes.

However, depending on who you ask, it may be Manchester, it may be Toledo... I'm just not sure yet....

They have 512 KB's of cache PER CORE, so that makes it a Manchester. The 4000+ version with 1 MB of cache PER CORE won't be available in a week or 3.

You are right, but wrong at the same time...

Some of the 3800's DO have the toledo core, but have half the cache disabled. So they are still the Toledo core, but with half the cache.

From what I can tell it goes like this:

ADA3800DAA5CD = Toledo core, 1Mb Cache, but only 512Kb enabled.
ADA3800DAA5BV = Manchester, 512Kb Cache by default.

It seems this holds true based on model numbers from other X2's. For example, the 4600 (which only has 512Kb of cache per core by default) has the model name:
ADA4600DAA5BV

And the OEM 4200, which only has 512Kb each by default is:
ADA4200DAA5BV

QFT. I was a little confused also by annand's article about Manchester and Toledos but someone in the forums cleared me straight up.

OOPS lol. Wrote my comment on the wrong place.

 

[Bona Fide]

2.7GHz? Holy crap! Maybe I shouldn't have gotten a 4400+

 

[Duvie]

Originally posted by: Kensai

Originally posted by: TankGuys

Originally posted by: Vegitto

Originally posted by: TankGuys

Originally posted by: Vegitto

Originally posted by: Bona Fide

Originally posted by: Kensai
3800+ X2 = Manchester..

That's not what Tankguys.com says. Look at the Detailed Description (the red text).
http://www.tankguys.biz/athlon64-3800-p-1369.html

Well, if that's what Tankguys is saying, that just means that Tankguys is wrong. X2 3800+ is Manchester.

Honestly, now I don't even know. Nobody seems to agree on this. What I DO know is that it's an E6 stepping, and the model number (on the chip listed on our site) is correct; I'm staring at the boxes.

However, depending on who you ask, it may be Manchester, it may be Toledo... I'm just not sure yet....

They have 512 KB's of cache PER CORE, so that makes it a Manchester. The 4000+ version with 1 MB of cache PER CORE won't be available in a week or 3.

You are right, but wrong at the same time...

Some of the 3800's DO have the toledo core, but have half the cache disabled. So they are still the Toledo core, but with half the cache.

From what I can tell it goes like this:

ADA3800DAA5CD = Toledo core, 1Mb Cache, but only 512Kb enabled.
ADA3800DAA5BV = Manchester, 512Kb Cache by default.

It seems this holds true based on model numbers from other X2's. For example, the 4600 (which only has 512Kb of cache per core by default) has the model name:
ADA4600DAA5BV

And the OEM 4200, which only has 512Kb each by default is:
ADA4200DAA5BV

I agree completely. There are both Manchester and Toledo versions of the X2 3800+.
The Manchester version being cheaper and easier to produce. (AMD's costs)

I always believed this to be true and if ymany of you guys remember I was saying this from the beginning and why perhaps some of us were a bit apprehensive on ocing the 3800+ x2s until we saw more returns from users...as easy as they can be chips with defective cache they could be chips that couldn't make the 2.2ghz range hit and therefore were downclocked...

 

[coldpower27]

It's questionable if we will see a 4000+ variant with 1MB Cache per core, as AMD has yet to do so on it's Single Core, for this clock frequency. AKA 2.0GHZ.

You guys think a Athlon 64x2 3400+ is possible 1.8GHZ/512KB, that would finally be the Pentium D 820 competitor we so desperately seek

Who knows maybe they will just leave these gaps in the middle.