Manafort Just Couldn't Stop Lying

[Hayabusa Rider]

This must be terrifying to Trump. Look at what he retweeted.

He's got Rosenstein up for treason along with everyone else. That in itself is sufficient for removal from office "if we had judges that followed the literal Constitution" or some such nonsense and I have little doubt that Franklin and other founders would have him gone.

Let's see someone defend this.

 

[cytg111]

This must be terrifying to Trump. Look at what he retweeted.

He's got Rosenstein up for treason along with everyone else. That in itself is sufficient for removal from office "if we had judges that followed the literal Constitution" or some such nonsense and I have little doubt that Franklin and other founders would have him gone.

Let's see someone defend this.

Off the rails ..

https://twitter.com/x/status/1067775022331236352

The latest tweet outing Hillary as Ku Klux Klan leader?

Off The Rails.
Friday should be entetaining.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Off the rails ..

https://twitter.com/x/status/1067775022331236352

The latest tweet outing Hillary as Ku Klux Klan leader?

Off The Rails.
Friday should be entetaining.

This is already an incredibly... incredible. Corsi shares information with Trump's lawyers which is legal depending on specifics but not for Manafort, Stone working with Assange and Russian agents and perhaps Manafort too. Rudy points out obstruction ongoing in plain view. We've gone way past Nixon into reprehensible behavior never seen in US history.

I see Manafort, Corsi and others being pardoned, which is Trump's Constitutional right, but there is no right of freedom of consequences as Trump would be using his powers to obstruct justice and be conspiring against the United States.

I wonder if Mueller will have a private meeting with House Intelligence leaders come January, which doesn't allow Republicans? Perhaps Schiff can let in a few Reps of his choosing then kick them out? Shiff knows all about that. Mueller may not be able to directly cooperate with the House with all details, but as Congress has the responsibility of oversight (used properly of course) there can be some cooperation.

That will be fun.

 

[cytg111]

This is already an incredibly... incredible. Corsi shares information with Trump's lawyers which is legal depending on specifics but not for Manafort, Stone working with Assange and Russian agents and perhaps Manafort too. Rudy points out obstruction ongoing in plain view. We've gone way past Nixon into reprehensible behavior never seen in US history.

I see Manafort, Corsi and others being pardoned, which is Trump's Constitutional right, but there is no right of freedom of consequences as Trump would be using his powers to obstruct justice and be conspiring against the United States.

I wonder if Mueller will have a private meeting with House Intelligence leaders come January, which doesn't allow Republicans? Perhaps Schiff can let in a few Reps of his choosing then kick them out? Shiff knows all about that. Mueller may not be able to directly cooperate with the House with all details, but as Congress has the responsibility of oversight (used properly of course) there can be some cooperation.

That will be fun.

Whatever it is Trump will do, he'll have to do it before January.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Whatever it is Trump will do, he'll have to do it before January.

He can do whatever he wants until one second before he's removed, really. If Trump pardons everyone now or in February it's all the same as the Republicans can't command the next House to abide by their wishes.

His best "FU" option is to wait until his last day and royally screw the nation in every single way he can then quit. I expect something like that, maybe not on that time table but once he knows he is leaving revenge against the nation is a real possibility.

 

[UNCjigga]

So...in speculating as to the origin of The Guardian's source for the Manafort-Assange story...I reread this article from May of this year:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...s-julian-assange-spy-operation-embassy-london

Some interesting details that take on new meaning after this week's news:

The agency used a “special expenses” budget to pay for CCTV cameras to be installed in the embassy weeks after Assange moved in.

At the same time, documents show an international security company was contracted to secretly film and monitor all activity in the embassy. The company installed a team who provided 24/7 security, with two people on shift at a time, based at a £2,800-a-month flat in an Edwardian mansion building round the corner from the Knightsbridge embassy.

Even the then Ecuadorian ambassador to the UK, Juan Falconí Puig, seems to have been unaware of the operation until a council tax bill for the flat was posted to the embassy in May 2015. The arrangement had to be explained to the ambassador in a conference call with Patiño, according to a source.

The security personnel recorded in minute detail Assange’s daily activities, and his interactions with embassy staff, his legal team and other visitors. They also documented his changing moods.

The team consulted Assange about each person seeking to visit him. Guests would pass through a security zone, leaving their passports with staff there, according to sources, and documents seen by the Guardian.

The passports were used to create a profile that described the visit and gave background details of all his visitors.

So...could the Guardian's source be officials within the Ecuadorean embassy itself? It seems the new Ecuadorean administration has little love for Assange, and all indications are that they may no longer be protecting him once he's indicted.

 

[cytg111]

I feel a Manafort pardon incoming... soonish .

 

[K1052]

I feel a Manafort pardon incoming... soonish .

It's of limited utility now. The stuff he's admitted to also broke state criminal laws and he's totally exposed to civil penalties (will lose all his money). It's just a slightly different way of being totally fucked.

 

[fskimospy]

It's of limited utility now. The stuff he's admitted to also broke state criminal laws and he's totally exposed to civil penalties (will lose all his money). It's just a slightly different way of being totally fucked.

Especially since Mueller didn’t prosecute him on a bunch of charges that he could have so even if that double jeopardy SCOTUS case comes down and says duel sovereignty isn’t a thing Manafort is still headed to prison.

 

[K1052]

Especially since Mueller didn’t prosecute him on a bunch of charges that he could have so even if that double jeopardy SCOTUS case comes down and says duel sovereignty isn’t a thing Manafort is still headed to prison.

Yes, Manafort will die broke and in prison. The only real remaining question is which kind (state or federal).

From a non-lawyerly POV all this joint defense agreement stuff (apparently dozens of them) if used to coordinate seems like it could possibly run afoul of something like "conspiracy to obstruct justice" depending on what exactly happened.

 

[dawp]

I wonder if RICO can be applied here, seems like it's a likely to me.

 

[fskimospy]

I wonder if RICO can be applied here, seems like it's a likely to me.

Probably not, from my understanding RICO is a super, super limited tool that only really applies to organized crime. So basically you would have to somehow prove that the Trump Organization as a whole or the Trump family or whatever was a criminal enterprise whose primary reason to exist was to commit crimes.

Now Trump is obviously incredibly, almost impossibly corrupt but I don't see any indication that he was in business for the purpose of committing crimes. The fact that he committed a bunch of crimes was just incidental.

 

[HomerJS]

He can do whatever he wants until one second before he's removed, really. If Trump pardons everyone now or in February it's all the same as the Republicans can't command the next House to abide by their wishes.

His best "FU" option is to wait until his last day and royally screw the nation in every single way he can then quit. I expect something like that, maybe not on that time table but once he knows he is leaving revenge against the nation is a real possibility.

And then all the states' AGs issue their indictments.

 

[woolfe9998]

Yes, Manafort will die broke and in prison. The only real remaining question is which kind (state or federal).

From a non-lawyerly POV all this joint defense agreement stuff (apparently dozens of them) if used to coordinate seems like it could possibly run afoul of something like "conspiracy to obstruct justice" depending on what exactly happened.

The joint defense agreement is worrisome here because it very much suggests a pardon has been dangled. If it's considered a joint defense arrangement, then privilege attaches to any communications between Trump's lawyers and Manafort's lawyers, which is precisely how one would expect the pardon to be dangled. If it's a conspiracy to obstruct justice, then the privilege can be pierced by court order, but first you have to prove a pardon was dangled to begin with and the parties and their lawyers will claim privilege if asked about their communications so its kind of a catch-22.

 

[cytg111]

The lawyers dangling the pardon must be in some muddy waters themselves...

 

[trenchfoot]

From gathering up what's being offered up in this thread up to this point in time, it seems to me that Manafort, if not totally deranged by the fate that awaits him, is guarding something that transcends all of the other problems he's caused himself.

Short of some other unheard of consequence that would affect the apparent inevitable extended trip to the slammer he's now headed for, every crime he's committed since he made that deal with Mueller seems to be superseded by something that he fears more than a lifetime of incarceration.

edit - Could it be that he thinks he would be safer in jail than anywhere else?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

The joint defense agreement is worrisome here because it very much suggests a pardon has been dangled. If it's considered a joint defense arrangement, then privilege attaches to any communications between Trump's lawyers and Manafort's lawyers, which is precisely how one would expect the pardon to be dangled. If it's a conspiracy to obstruct justice, then the privilege can be pierced by court order, but first you have to prove a pardon was dangled to begin with and the parties and their lawyers will claim privilege if asked about their communications so its kind of a catch-22.

I was watching talking head lawyers who brought up an interesting point. The any joint defense agreement between Trump and Manafort changes once Manafort is convicted and enters into the plea agreement as that details the sentencing, therefore a JDA serves no legitimate purpose.

My sense of all this is that Trump's lawyers may be yelling at him to not pardon Manafort at least not until the dust settles, but Trump might do it anyway. If he does then obstruction and all kinds of conspiracy charges might kick in for Trump. He has the right of pardon but nowhere is there a protection from consequences.

 

[Jhhnn]

From gathering up what's being offered up in this thread up to this point in time, it seems to me that Manafort, if not totally deranged by the fate that awaits him, is guarding something that transcends all of the other problems he's caused himself.

Short of some other unheard of consequence that would affect the apparent inevitable extended trip to the slammer he's now headed for, every crime he's committed since he made that deal with Mueller seems to be superseded by something that he fears more than a lifetime of incarceration.

edit - Could it be that he thinks he would be safer in jail than anywhere else?

I figure Manafort is angling for a pardon after the 2020 election. Trump can do so with impunity if he lasts that long.

If it doesn't work out that way at least he won't be locked up as the guy who ratted out Trump. I'd hate to be that guy.

 

[UNCjigga]

From gathering up what's being offered up in this thread up to this point in time, it seems to me that Manafort, if not totally deranged by the fate that awaits him, is guarding something that transcends all of the other problems he's caused himself.

Short of some other unheard of consequence that would affect the apparent inevitable extended trip to the slammer he's now headed for, every crime he's committed since he made that deal with Mueller seems to be superseded by something that he fears more than a lifetime of incarceration.

edit - Could it be that he thinks he would be safer in jail than anywhere else?

Lots of speculation that he's afraid of upsetting Putin and his henchmen...especially Deripaska.

 

[fskimospy]

From gathering up what's being offered up in this thread up to this point in time, it seems to me that Manafort, if not totally deranged by the fate that awaits him, is guarding something that transcends all of the other problems he's caused himself.

Short of some other unheard of consequence that would affect the apparent inevitable extended trip to the slammer he's now headed for, every crime he's committed since he made that deal with Mueller seems to be superseded by something that he fears more than a lifetime of incarceration.

edit - Could it be that he thinks he would be safer in jail than anywhere else?

If Manafort wanted to stay in jail he could have simply pleaded guilty to everything without a plea deal. The only reason violating his plea deal makes sense is to help Trump structure his defense by giving him information on Mueller's investigation so they can get their lies on the same page.

This is damning.

 

[cytg111]

From gathering up what's being offered up in this thread up to this point in time, it seems to me that Manafort, if not totally deranged by the fate that awaits him, is guarding something that transcends all of the other problems he's caused himself.

Short of some other unheard of consequence that would affect the apparent inevitable extended trip to the slammer he's now headed for, every crime he's committed since he made that deal with Mueller seems to be superseded by something that he fears more than a lifetime of incarceration.

edit - Could it be that he thinks he would be safer in jail than anywhere else?

Its not like Manafort should/would be afraid of something like Novichok... Right?

 

[cytg111]

Yall should treat yourself to this air piece ; https://www.wnyc.org/story/case-collusion/

 

[woolfe9998]

I was watching talking head lawyers who brought up an interesting point. The any joint defense agreement between Trump and Manafort changes once Manafort is convicted and enters into the plea agreement as that details the sentencing, therefore a JDA serves no legitimate purpose.

My sense of all this is that Trump's lawyers may be yelling at him to not pardon Manafort at least not until the dust settles, but Trump might do it anyway. If he does then obstruction and all kinds of conspiracy charges might kick in for Trump. He has the right of pardon but nowhere is there a protection from consequences.

Trump will have special difficulties explaining a Manafort pardon, because Trump and his lawyers have repeatedly claimed that Manafort's criminal activities occurred before he was Trump's campaign manager and had nothing to do with Trump. If the charges were related to collusion during the campaign, Trump could try to justify the pardon because he claims there was no collusion so Manafort was railroaded. But how does Trump explain pardoning him for myriad financial crimes which Trump has said had nothing to do with him or his campaign?

 

[woolfe9998]

If Manafort wanted to stay in jail he could have simply pleaded guilty to everything without a plea deal. The only reason violating his plea deal makes sense is to help Trump structure his defense by giving him information on Mueller's investigation so they can get their lies on the same page.

This is damning.

Yeah it is, and I don't see this plea deal falling through as much of an impediment to Mueller. The mere fact that Mueller can prove Manafort has repeatedly lied means Mueller already has amassed strong evidence. And Manafort was never going to be a credible witness anyway.

 

[trenchfoot]

If Manafort wanted to stay in jail he could have simply pleaded guilty to everything without a plea deal. The only reason violating his plea deal makes sense is to help Trump structure his defense by giving him information on Mueller's investigation so they can get their lies on the same page.

This is damning.

Looks like they all think they can escape from the laws they broke of which they previously thought they were somehow immune from by furiously digging ever deeper down the hole they're already in faster than that arm that's coming for them.

I guess desperation does have a way of turning arrogant self-interested assholes into scared panicked rats looking for any 'ol crack in the wall to squeeze out of.