Man who scuffled with police dies *update*

[MarkXIX]

Aside from tazer and physical force, which actually is part of the training, what other ways do cops have to make someone compliant when it comes to cuffing and what not?

I'm glad you asked, even though you completely ignored the blunt force trauma to his head from a flashlight, which is NOT in any officer's use of force continuum.

Realizing they could not overpower him they could have backed off and tried additional verbal commands. Not sure, but didn't appear that they used chemical irritants (read: pepper spray). They could have let him walk and followed him to a point where a second attempt to restrain him could have been made. Hell, they could have used a canine for that matter.

Regardless, there are a variety of options and they choose tactics that killed him needlessly. Also, did you even read that whole article you posted?

 

[chimaxi83]

So when do the douchebag pieces of shit sue for wrongful termination, back pay, and seniority, and win?

 

[brianmanahan]

He's schizophrenic, you really expect a guy who is mentally insane to follow orders?

i dont believe that being insane means you should be allowed to break the law, which includes following orders. not guilty by reason of insanity is stupid in my opinion.

I don't get the point of your post. Are you trying to say he deserves to die? Are you trying to say the police are innocent and acted properly beating to death an innocent mentally handicapped man who was never charged with the crime they thought he committed?

i dont think this is black and white, it is somewhere in the middle. the cops were definitely at fault, but so was the hobo. it could go either way. but that was up to the jury to decide. im fine with whatever they come up with.

 

[FallenHero]

I'm glad you asked, even though you completely ignored the blunt force trauma to his head from a flashlight, which is NOT in any officer's use of force continuum.

Realizing they could not overpower him they could have backed off and tried additional verbal commands. Not sure, but didn't appear that they used chemical irritants (read: pepper spray). They could have let him walk and followed him to a point where a second attempt to restrain him could have been made. Hell, they could have used a canine for that matter.

Regardless, there are a variety of options and they choose tactics that killed him needlessly. Also, did you even read that whole article you posted?

Just for the record here, hitting someone in the head with a flashlight (or any sort of hard blunt object) is considered deadly force (at least at the department I work at).

That being said, your other options aren't options. If you feel that he is a continuing threat to himself or others, letting him walk is not an option. Chemical irritants at this point in a fight would have been useless and caused more frustration on the officers part and hinder them rather then help. A canine would BITE the ever living crap out of the subject and rip through flesh, hardly a good option (in fact worse then wrestling).

The only tactic that would have been effective is the ability to immobilize each limb until the subject fatigues out. Which brings us right back to the wrestling match that turned into this.

 

[tcsenter]

Aside from tazer and physical force, which actually is part of the training, what other ways do cops have to make someone compliant when it comes to cuffing and what not?

Why...smashing them in the face at least eight times with a hard object such as the butt of a stun gun, causing multiple facial fractures, then sitting on their chest causing them to suffocate in spite of them repeatedly informing "I can't breathe" - natch!

 

[positivedoppler]

i dont believe that being insane means you should be allowed to break the law, which includes following orders. not guilty by reason of insanity is stupid in my opinion.



i dont think this is black and white, it is somewhere in the middle. the cops were definitely at fault, but so was the hobo. it could go either way. but that was up to the jury to decide. im fine with whatever they come up with.

What an absolutely cold heart thing to say. Are you saying that a person suffering from Schizophrenia should be capable of understanding and following police order and should be held to the same standard of sanity as the rest of us? Have you ever been around schizophrenic people?
Do yourself a favor and watch "A Beautiful Mind" I've meet people in my life worst off then him.

 

[AViking]

I'm not going to watch this video again. It was absolutely disgusting and heartbreaking.

How could any jury possibly acquit?! Is this the type of law enforcement they want? I remember the one cop putting gloves on and literally telling the guy he was going to hurt him.

 

[umbrella39]

NOT GUILTY

Holy SHIT!

If you weren't afraid of cops before, you should be now. They will beat the living shit out of you, kill your ass and they will go out to coffee after.

OMFG.... How in the holy hell did these guys get off?

 

[umbrella39]

they wouldnt have beat the life out of him if he would have followed orders

also it would have helped if he wasnt a hobo living in the streets

Marginalized and you got visitor.. GFYIYSA

 

[AViking]

How in the world am I supposed to explain this one today to everyone I run into? Every Swede I meet will be asking me my opinion as if I'm some kind of American Ambassador. What they hell am I supposed to say!? How can I possibly justify a not-guilty verdict to them?

 

[umbrella39]

What an absolutely cold heart thing to say. Are you saying that a person suffering from Schizophrenia should be capable of understanding and following police order and should be held to the same standard of sanity as the rest of us? Have you ever been around schizophrenic people?
Do yourself a favor and watch "A Beautiful Mind" I've meet people in my life worst off then him.

Do you honestly think the person you just quoted is, himself, playing with anything even close to resembling a full deck?

 

[tcsenter]

How in the world am I supposed to explain this one today to everyone I run into? Every Swede I meet will be asking me my opinion as if I'm some kind of American Ambassador. What they hell am I supposed to say!? How can I possibly justify a not-guilty verdict to them?

Same thing you tell them when someone confronts you about things like 'I thought America didn't torture?'

 

[Lava_Fish]

I am seriously offended that these cops got off on all of the charges.

The security video where the cop had already chased him down and was putting on gloves while saying he was getting ready to fuck the guy up while the guy was just sitting there would have been pretty damning evidence.

The fact that the cop admits to bashing the guy's face in repeatedly with a taser while the guy was no threat to anyone and already immobilized would have been pretty damning evidence.

Repeatedly performing knee drops to an unarmed persons face and neck and tazing someone more than a few times seems excessive to me.

They murdered this guy and they got off scott free.

I would like to think that the cops are there to enforce the law. But the video evidence combined with the not-guilty verdict seems to shatter that view.

These guys are murderers. They are out there walking the street, free to murder again in uniform with the confidence that the 'justice' system will back them up even if they murder someone on video.

(This is all my opinion based on the videos that I've seen. I could accept the fact that I've misunderstood the evidence and that they are not technically murderers. What I can not accept is that they did their jobs appropriately and are undeserving of any criminal punishment whatsoever.)

 

[Rinaun]

This is pretty sickening.I usually side with police but the video just shows so much wrong done to this poor man. We really need to focus on mental health in this country; this could have been avoided if there was a proper outlet for this man to be handled in. Not saying that's an excuse for the way the police handled him.

 

[veri745]

Wow, that's super messed up. The cops obviously already knew the guy. Several comments like "We have to talk to you like every day", and "Do you enjoy this?" in the video of the incident. The first 15 minutes of it is peaceful, but the cops are badgering him.

Then Ramos says something like "These fists are about to f*ck you up", and they start beating the crap out of him shortly after.

So much wrong with how that incident started. I think that's the bigger crime than using 6 guys to hold down a single disturbed individual and crushing him to death.

So sad.

 

[Ancalagon44]

All police officers involved need to receive a slow puncture while in prison. Look it up.

 

[QueBert]

they wouldnt have beat the life out of him if he would have followed orders

also it would have helped if he wasnt a hobo living in the streets

I disagree, any cops willing to go this far past the point of what's reasonable probably wouldn't have much of a problem killing just because they felt like it. These cops were evil people and I wouldn't trust my life in their hands even with me giving them my full cooperation.

If a thug says "give me your wallet or I'm going to kill you" you're not going to assume if you did it that nothing would happen would you? These cops are thugs, plain and simple. I've had a few hairy run-ins with police officers, and many are just as bad as gang members. Amadou Diallo got shot 41 times and he wasn't doing shit. Abner Louima got a plunger inserted in his ass because a cop didn't get the info he wanted to hear from him. Abner hadn't even done shit, it was a case of mistaken identity. Him complying with the police resulted in his teeth getting fucked up from a plunger handle and his insides getting so jacked up from the plunger they were ramming in his anus that he needed multiple surgeries.

 

[mikeford]

Says the guy reading about it for the first time.

More posting about what you don't know.

I knew about the case about the time it happened, did not follow it much in the media, but do trust our court system 20x as much as the media.

Most communities get the type of police force they want. If you don't like yours, get more politically active or join the police force.

 

[Sinsear]

Everyone whines and cries that "cops are never fired" and they "never get arrested and charged".

Then, when they get fired, arrested and charged with murder, and get acquitted by a jury, the same peope cry more.

Give it a rest already.

 

[Jeeebus]

What scares me the most about cases like this, Zimmerman, OJ, etc. is the number of people calling for a new federal investigation/charges following an acquittal. We're all entitled to dislike a jury's verdict, but you're pretty much spitting on the Constitution when you call for ignoring the verdict. It scares the shit out of me that a large segment of the population is perfectly OK with the government getting a second, third, fourth etc. bite at the apple until it gets a conviction. That's not a country I want to live in.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

This. Looking at the video, 2 cops couldn't even get him on the stomach and cuffed. But of course the family will be on TV talking about injustice and police brutality and what not. Where were they before, when their mentally ill son was roaming the streets and stealing shit?

I instantly knew this will be a media bullshit thing when they were showing a picture from 1998 rather than this

I can't help but to notice that the people harping on this manipulative picture BS seemed to have no problem with the 12 year old trayvon..............

 

[SpatiallyAware]

What scares me the most about cases like this, Zimmerman, OJ, etc. is the number of people calling for a new federal investigation/charges following an acquittal. We're all entitled to dislike a jury's verdict, but you're pretty much spitting on the Constitution when you call for ignoring the verdict. It scares the shit out of me that a large segment of the population is perfectly OK with the government getting a second, third, fourth etc. bite at the apple until it gets a conviction. That's not a country I want to live in.

You can thank the thug supporters, this really seemed to have started with trayvon, they realized that threats of violence and riots might get them what they want.


Thankfully, justice seems to prevail.

 

[Nintendesert]

Just for the record here, hitting someone in the head with a flashlight (or any sort of hard blunt object) is considered deadly force (at least at the department I work at).

I'm really curious as to why when Officers are seen hitting someone's head like this they aren't charged with attempted murder/manslaughter each and every time.

Even in the Marines, I was taught that strikes to the head with a weapon such as a baton, stick, rock... was an attempt to kill. Strikes to the thighs, legs, arms were less than lethal strikes. Any attack to the head area with flashlights or batons are attempts to kill.

The evidence with this guy's face and head area with the damage he received should have been evidence enough of multiple attempts to kill him.

I think a lot of it is the public's perception being warped by Hollywood and movies thinking blows to the head are attempts to knock someone out. There just seems to be a real disconnect with the reality of what those strikes to the head are.

 

[HumblePie]

I am also shocked at the verdict. I hope there is an appeal to this. I really do not see how the cops won their case at all. The only defense they had was that they didn't think their actions would "kill" him and that he only died because drugs *may* have weakened his heart. That their actions wouldn't have killed someone without a weak heart. That is a pure bullshit defense. Their attacks most certainly would have been capable of killing anyone. The prosecution should have used many other such cases to prove that point. As Nintendesert stated, attacks to the head at any point can kill someone. There is ample evidence that shows this. The cops describing their actions to do harm before they do them shows an intent to try to kill the man. It's mind blowing the verdict in this case.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

I am also shocked at the verdict. I hope there is an appeal to this. I really do not see how the cops won their case at all. The only defense they had was that they didn't think their actions would "kill" him and that he only died because drugs *may* have weakened his heart. That their actions wouldn't have killed someone without a weak heart. That is a pure bullshit defense. Their attacks most certainly would have been capable of killing anyone. The prosecution should have used many other such cases to prove that point. As Nintendesert stated, attacks to the head at any point can kill someone. There is ample evidence that shows this. The cops describing their actions to do harm before they do them shows an intent to try to kill the man. It's mind blowing the verdict in this case.

Really, completely shocked?

You hit the nail on the had with "they didn't think their actions would "kill" him"


For someone inside the thin blue line gang, that is an INSTANT get out of jail free card unless it was premeditated by a few hours or longer.

There are situations where a thin blue line gang member said (paraphrased) "motherfucker's about to die", then KILLED someone, then claimed they didn't actually think beating their head in on a sidewalk would kill them even though they showed premeditated intent..... And the gang member walked. In that particular situation his fellow gang members refused to roll on him, which was a large part of it, but still.