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Man Palin is going to CRASH and burn come Thursday. How likely do you think it is that....
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Yeah, that was the 'interview' with Hugh Hewitt. The beach balls he lobbed to her were great. Palin portrayed herself as an 'average Jane' who can identify with what Joe Sixpack is going through. She claims her family is struggling financially then went on to point out that McCain is trying to raise FDIC limits from $100K to $250K so it would protect families like hers. I don't know about you but my family doesn't have to worry about the $100K FDIC limit.
rudder
Lifer
If Palin wins the debate and leads to Obama losing the election...
I wonder how well the debate moderator's book will sell.
I wonder how well the debate moderator's book will sell.
dbk
Lifer
Sarah Palin, a master of the nonanswer
The fact that the debate will be held in a townhall format, Biden and Palin will not have to answer directly to each other; She can just stick to her talking points.
jonks
Lifer
her thoughts:
Well I don't read any papers at all actually so this is a toughie...what's a big popular paper? I know, the NY Times! Wait! No! John said I can't like that one because it's that liberal biased one from New York. Hm. Oh, The Wall Street Journal! That's conservative! But what if they ask me about an author or article or opinion piece...I haven't read any of that! Alaska Gazette? No, I'll sound way too provincial. Provincial? Where'd that come from, I don't even know what that word means! Oy vey. What would Tina Fey say? Guess I'll just say I read all of them, and if they keep pressing me for one specifically I'll just have to get back to em! Pew pew!
She will just stick to her talking points though, I bet you there will be very limited followup questions (if any at all). She's fine with the first non-answer, that's easy to script and drill into someone's head no matter how dumb they are. It's just when someone presses her for details that she runs aground.
AstroManLuca
Lifer
Yeah. With such limited time to address things, Biden won't be able to actually go after her for anything she says. He's going to have to just be as professional as he can and make her look bad. Something tells me she won't need Biden to make her look unprofessional. And then the commentators will let her have it as well.
BMW540I6speed
Golden Member
Thursday night in a nut-shell:
Moderator: Governor Palin, how would you handle the Iraq war?
Palin: Well, it?s important for the United States of the America to be, well to lead, when the Middle of East has terrorists. And we are in a War on Terror, so when Democracy and freedom, which is important for health care and job creation, which, I mean John McCain is for jobs. And Al Qaida of course ? um ? Pakistan and Afghanistan and ? um ? Putin ? uh ? We must win in Iraq.
Moderator: Uuuuuuuh ?. Okay. Thank you, Governor. Senator Biden, how you handle the Iraq war?
Biden: Well it?s clear, just as General Patton led the Union Army against the Boers in the War of 1812, that complete victory must be achieved, otherwise Islamabad, the Capital of Hamas, obviously will never be safe. I quote Admiral Eisenhower, who said, ?Give me Democracy or give me the Bay of Pigs.?
Moderator: I quit.
If she clearly stammers and is the ill-informed idiot that many of us have her pegged for them McCain is no more screwed than he already is. Those who like her politics will likely still vote for her and blame the media.. somehow. Some in the middle are already flowing Obama-ward; maybe that process would be accelerated some, but not much. Election Day 40 to 45% would vote GOP no matter what.
The whole Palin bounce derived from her freshness on the scene - meaning that almost anyone else McCain would have chosen would have been more of a known quantity -someone with a real record of governance, someone with a real history of positions on national issues, someone who had been interviewed on national TV a couple of times over the last few decades.
With Palin, we got none of this, and GOPers were spewing jism down their legs at how exciting she was. The downside of that, aside from the mess of cleaning your pants off, was that she had to - absolutely HAD TO - cram in twenty or thirty nationwide media interviews, give major policy speeches, debate a seasoned politician, all in the next 60-odd days. At first, you Pubbies were all "Piece of cake, she's going to do fine, you guys are cooked moose!"
But she's letting you down big-time. She can't handle even a pool reporter's indepth questioning on how it felt to say howdy to some turbaned dude who can't hardly speak English, and she's toast under the scrutiny of a major Eastern elite news-hawk like Katie Couric, queen of puffery.
Who created this problem? That would be John McCain, so please don't blame anyone else that she is being forced to undergo this intense scrutiny, or else face ridicule for running away from it. He knew this when he oh-so-carefully vetted her, and all he can do now (with your help) is blame this major fuckup on the media, the Democrats, the boogey-man, the leprechauns, etc..
Moderator: Governor Palin, how would you handle the Iraq war?
Palin: Well, it?s important for the United States of the America to be, well to lead, when the Middle of East has terrorists. And we are in a War on Terror, so when Democracy and freedom, which is important for health care and job creation, which, I mean John McCain is for jobs. And Al Qaida of course ? um ? Pakistan and Afghanistan and ? um ? Putin ? uh ? We must win in Iraq.
Moderator: Uuuuuuuh ?. Okay. Thank you, Governor. Senator Biden, how you handle the Iraq war?
Biden: Well it?s clear, just as General Patton led the Union Army against the Boers in the War of 1812, that complete victory must be achieved, otherwise Islamabad, the Capital of Hamas, obviously will never be safe. I quote Admiral Eisenhower, who said, ?Give me Democracy or give me the Bay of Pigs.?
Moderator: I quit.
If she clearly stammers and is the ill-informed idiot that many of us have her pegged for them McCain is no more screwed than he already is. Those who like her politics will likely still vote for her and blame the media.. somehow. Some in the middle are already flowing Obama-ward; maybe that process would be accelerated some, but not much. Election Day 40 to 45% would vote GOP no matter what.
The whole Palin bounce derived from her freshness on the scene - meaning that almost anyone else McCain would have chosen would have been more of a known quantity -someone with a real record of governance, someone with a real history of positions on national issues, someone who had been interviewed on national TV a couple of times over the last few decades.
With Palin, we got none of this, and GOPers were spewing jism down their legs at how exciting she was. The downside of that, aside from the mess of cleaning your pants off, was that she had to - absolutely HAD TO - cram in twenty or thirty nationwide media interviews, give major policy speeches, debate a seasoned politician, all in the next 60-odd days. At first, you Pubbies were all "Piece of cake, she's going to do fine, you guys are cooked moose!"
But she's letting you down big-time. She can't handle even a pool reporter's indepth questioning on how it felt to say howdy to some turbaned dude who can't hardly speak English, and she's toast under the scrutiny of a major Eastern elite news-hawk like Katie Couric, queen of puffery.
Who created this problem? That would be John McCain, so please don't blame anyone else that she is being forced to undergo this intense scrutiny, or else face ridicule for running away from it. He knew this when he oh-so-carefully vetted her, and all he can do now (with your help) is blame this major fuckup on the media, the Democrats, the boogey-man, the leprechauns, etc..
jonks
Lifer
Polling indicates americans think Biden is more knowledgeable on the issues 60-30 yet less likeable. Obama/Biden are going into this debate ahead nationally and in key swing states. All Biden has to do is be courteous and he wins, even if the debate is a draw. He knows the issues backwards and forwards, most americans believe he is qualified to be president, so he doesn't have to impress anyone. People think the bar has been lowered for Palin, but Biden basically just has to look healthy and he wins.
Palin on the other hand has a narrative going in as a know-nothing pretty face. The chances that her 60 second answers will instill a confidence in swing voters that they didn't feel watching her flounder in every other interview she's had are not good. This debate will be widely watched, probably by more than the presidential debates even if just for the fun factor, but I doubt it will change many minds.
Palin on the other hand has a narrative going in as a know-nothing pretty face. The chances that her 60 second answers will instill a confidence in swing voters that they didn't feel watching her flounder in every other interview she's had are not good. This debate will be widely watched, probably by more than the presidential debates even if just for the fun factor, but I doubt it will change many minds.
Juddog
Diamond Member
I think this so-called debate isn't really a debate at all thanks to McCain changing the game. It's just Palin and Biden answering scripted questions, not even talking to each other. Palin just has to stick to talking points and what Karl Rove told her to memorize.
It should be called a Q&A session, not a debate.
It should be called a Q&A session, not a debate.
AstroManLuca
Lifer
Debates in general rarely change minds. They might appeal to the small portion of voters who are genuinely undecided, but I think a lot of "undecided" voters have actually already chosen who they'll probably vote for and just aren't happy with their available choices. As for solid supporters, they tend to see their own candidate as being the winner in every debate, regardless of the circumstances.
OrByte
Diamond Member
Here is an interesting bone to throw out there
Given the debate format. Why not just let Biden talk about McCain and McCains ties to Bush?
just let Biden roll with it.
Palin's talking points wont have anything to do with McCains record. She either wont know how to respond or she will respond poorly. She would be better off NOT responding so Biden can take a big bat and just keep swinging at McCain.
She will do herself in. Meanwhile Biden gets to ignore her and focus on how a McCain/Palin presidency is more of the same of GWB.
just a thought.
Given the debate format. Why not just let Biden talk about McCain and McCains ties to Bush?
just let Biden roll with it.
Palin's talking points wont have anything to do with McCains record. She either wont know how to respond or she will respond poorly. She would be better off NOT responding so Biden can take a big bat and just keep swinging at McCain.
She will do herself in. Meanwhile Biden gets to ignore her and focus on how a McCain/Palin presidency is more of the same of GWB.
just a thought.
mooseracing
Golden Member
I think it's funny that most don't care that the moderator is going to have a biased opinion, most definitions of moderator mean non-biased. The moderator of Thursday's vice-presidential debate is writing a book to come out about the time the next president takes the oath of office that aims to "shed new light" on Democratic candidate Barack Obama and other "emerging young African American politicians" who are "forging a bold new path to political power."
Poor choice on the network's part to pick someone publishing a book on the subject. Even if there isn't bias in the debate, there's an appearance of possible bias which undercuts it no matter what actually happens.
This is probably actually good news for Palin though, it will give her another reason to explain away a poor performance if she has one, and considering how structured the debate is I doubt the moderator will have many chances to swing it one way or the other even if he wanted to.
Mermaidman
Diamond Member
Biden cannot win. Here's an interesting article from someone who debated Palin a few times when he ran against her for governor. The question is whether the average Joe/Jane will see past her obfuscations.
By Andrew Halcro, Wed Oct 1, 4:00 AM ET
When he faces off against Sarah Palin Thursday night, Joe Biden will have his hands full.
I should know. I've debated Governor Palin more than two dozen times. And she's a master, not of facts, figures, or insightful policy recommendations, but at the fine art of the nonanswer, the glittering generality. Against such charms there is little Senator Biden, or anyone, can do.
<snip>
On April 17, 2006, Palin and I participated in a debate at the University of Alaska in Fairbanks on agriculture issues. The next day, the Fairbanks Daily News Miner published this excerpt:
"Andrew Halcro, a declared independent candidate from Anchorage, came armed with statistics on agricultural productivity. Sarah Palin, a Republican from Wasilla, said the Matanuska Valley provides a positive example for other communities interested in agriculture to study."
On April 18, 2006, Palin and I sat together in a hotel coffee shop comparing campaign trail notes. As we talked about the debates, Palin made a comment that highlights the phenomenon that Biden is up against.
"Andrew, I watch you at these debates with no notes, no papers, and yet when asked questions, you spout off facts, figures, and policies, and I'm amazed. But then I look out into the audience and I ask myself, 'Does any of this really matter?' " Palin said.
While policy wonks such as Biden might cringe, it seemed to me that Palin was simply vocalizing her strength without realizing it. During the campaign, Palin's knowledge on public policy issues never matured ? because it didn't have to. Her ability to fill the debate halls with her presence and her gift of the glittering generality made it possible for her to rely on populism instead of policy.
Palin is a master of the nonanswer. She can turn a 60-second response to a query about her specific solutions to healthcare challenges into a folksy story about how she's met people on the campaign trail who face healthcare challenges. All without uttering a word about her public-policy solutions to healthcare challenges.
In one debate, a moderator asked the candidates to name a bill the legislature had recently passed that we didn't like. I named one. Democratic candidate Tony Knowles named one. But Sarah Palin instead used her allotted time to criticize the incumbent governor, Frank Murkowski. Asked to name a bill we did like, the same pattern emerged: Palin didn't name a bill.
And when she does answer the actual question asked, she has a canny ability to connect with the audience on a personal level. For example, asked to name a major issue that had been ignored during the campaign, I discussed the health of local communities, Mr. Knowles talked about affordable healthcare, and Palin talked about ... the need to protect hunting and fishing rights. <snip>
By Andrew Halcro, Wed Oct 1, 4:00 AM ET
When he faces off against Sarah Palin Thursday night, Joe Biden will have his hands full.
I should know. I've debated Governor Palin more than two dozen times. And she's a master, not of facts, figures, or insightful policy recommendations, but at the fine art of the nonanswer, the glittering generality. Against such charms there is little Senator Biden, or anyone, can do.
<snip>
On April 17, 2006, Palin and I participated in a debate at the University of Alaska in Fairbanks on agriculture issues. The next day, the Fairbanks Daily News Miner published this excerpt:
"Andrew Halcro, a declared independent candidate from Anchorage, came armed with statistics on agricultural productivity. Sarah Palin, a Republican from Wasilla, said the Matanuska Valley provides a positive example for other communities interested in agriculture to study."
On April 18, 2006, Palin and I sat together in a hotel coffee shop comparing campaign trail notes. As we talked about the debates, Palin made a comment that highlights the phenomenon that Biden is up against.
"Andrew, I watch you at these debates with no notes, no papers, and yet when asked questions, you spout off facts, figures, and policies, and I'm amazed. But then I look out into the audience and I ask myself, 'Does any of this really matter?' " Palin said.
While policy wonks such as Biden might cringe, it seemed to me that Palin was simply vocalizing her strength without realizing it. During the campaign, Palin's knowledge on public policy issues never matured ? because it didn't have to. Her ability to fill the debate halls with her presence and her gift of the glittering generality made it possible for her to rely on populism instead of policy.
Palin is a master of the nonanswer. She can turn a 60-second response to a query about her specific solutions to healthcare challenges into a folksy story about how she's met people on the campaign trail who face healthcare challenges. All without uttering a word about her public-policy solutions to healthcare challenges.
In one debate, a moderator asked the candidates to name a bill the legislature had recently passed that we didn't like. I named one. Democratic candidate Tony Knowles named one. But Sarah Palin instead used her allotted time to criticize the incumbent governor, Frank Murkowski. Asked to name a bill we did like, the same pattern emerged: Palin didn't name a bill.
And when she does answer the actual question asked, she has a canny ability to connect with the audience on a personal level. For example, asked to name a major issue that had been ignored during the campaign, I discussed the health of local communities, Mr. Knowles talked about affordable healthcare, and Palin talked about ... the need to protect hunting and fishing rights. <snip>
OrByte
Diamond Member
I think the expectations game works against Palin when making the argument that this author did.
Palin will not be able to get away with her "nonanswers" because that is pretty much all that she has supplied up to this point of the election season. She exhausted that ploy.
For those voters that are still on the fence, providing "nonanswers" and other platitudes will only reinforce the ideas that Palin has no substance.
People expect and want to see substance from her.
As for Biden, he's an old hand at this. He wont do any better or any worse than he has in the past.
This is really only about Palin's performance at this point. imho.
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