Man 'on neighborhood watch' kills 20-year-old outside home

Capt Caveman

Lifer
Jan 30, 2005
34,543
651
126
Didn't see this posted. Will be interesting to see how this incident develops.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/09/us/ra...an-american-outside-home-911-calls/index.html

A North Carolina man who said he was "on the neighborhood watch" fatally shot a 20-year-old from inside his garage before telling a 911 dispatcher he was protecting his family from "hoodlums," according to Raleigh police.
Chad Copley, 39, was charged with the death of Kouren-Rodney Bernard Thomas, who police said was outside Copley's home when he was shot just before 1 a.m. Sunday. Copley is being held without bond at Wake County Detention Center, police said.
Thomas is African-American. Copley is white.
Police said Copley used a shotgun, but they haven't disclosed the type of shotgun or the ammo used.
The News & Observer in Raleigh reported Monday that there was glass in Copley's yard and driveway from the blast traveling through one of the home's windows. There were also blood stains and bloody gauze a few feet from the street, the newspaper reported.

Wearing a red prison jumpsuit, Copley entered a courtroom Monday and winked at his family in the gallery. A judge assigned the Capital Defenders Office to defend Copley.
The office told CNN that Raymond Tarlton would represent Copley. Tarlton's office issued a brief statement saying it was in the preliminary stages of its investigation and cautioning against a rush to judgment.
"We have seen too many wrongful convictions for anyone or any organization to jump to conclusions on the basis of someone being charged," the statement said.

Much like the Martin case, Sunday's shooting can be partially pieced together through 911 calls.
It begins when a man calls police from Copley's two-story single-family home to report "a bunch of hoodlums out here racing."
"I am locked and loaded," he tells the dispatcher. "I'm going outside to secure my neighborhood. You need to send PD as quickly as possible."
The dispatcher asks, "I'm sorry. You're going out to do what to the neighborhood, sir?"
"I'm going to secure my neighborhood. I'm on the neighborhood watch. I'm going to have the neighbors with me. There's hoodlums out here racing up and down the street. It's 1 o'clock in the morning. There's several dozen of them. They have firearms, and we're going to secure our neighborhood. If I were you, I'd send PD as quickly as possible."
Asked if he can provide a house number or intersection, he says "Negative, ma'am. It's on Singleleaf, Raleigh, North Carolina. PD know where this is at."

Another man calls 911 shortly thereafter to report a shooting.
"Someone shot him out of his house," the caller tells the dispatcher.
Asked his name, the caller hangs up.
A woman then calls from Copley's home and says she's upstairs with her children before giving the phone to a man who acknowledges someone was shot and that he fired his weapon, but he seems unsure whether his shot hit anyone.

"We have a lot of people outside our house yelling and shouting profanities. I yelled at them, 'Please leave the premises.' They were showing a firearm, so I fired a warning shot and we got somebody that they got hit."
"OK, so somebody was shot?" the dispatcher asks.
"Well, I don't know if they're shot or not, ma'am. I fired my warning shot like I'm supposed to by law. They do have firearms, and I'm trying to protect myself and my family," the man replies.
The dispatcher asks who is outside his house, and the man says he doesn't know but there's a party at a nearby home. The back-and-forth is interrupted by some sort of commotion before the man again orders the dispatcher to send police.
"There are frigging black males outside my frigging house with firearms. Please send PD," he says.

Another witness then calls to say someone had been shot in the arm in front of Copley's home. Again, commotion muddles the audio.
The witness says the 20-year-old victim was shot in the arm, is unconscious and lying in the road. He doesn't know who fired the shot, he says.
Other witnesses claim the gunshot came from inside the home, the person tells 911.
A dispatcher then calls Copley's home to gather more details, and the man who made the initial call tells the dispatcher, "Ma'am, I don't know these f***ing people. I'm trying to secure my premises. Please send PD immediately."
The dispatcher says police are on the way. The man responds that the dispatcher is "killing time," and she argues that she isn't wasting time and that someone else is dispatching police. The call appears to end abruptly.
Thomas was pronounced dead at WakeMed Hospital in Raleigh, police said.

Jalen Lewis, who hosted a party at his home, two doors down from Copley's, on the night of the shooting, said the victim was one of roughly 50 guests at the party, according to CNN affiliate WTVD.

He didn't know Thomas personally, he said, and he didn't see anyone armed or causing problems outside his home that night. Lewis told WTVD he has never interacted with Copley in the seven years he's lived in the Raleigh neighborhood.
"The man's body was right in front of the mailbox," Lewis told the station, pointing to Copley's mailbox. "I don't know how (Thomas) was a threat from the garage."
Thomas' mother, Munyir Simone Butler Thomas, has set up a GoFundme page to cover her son's funeral costs. On the page, she said Thomas was out celebrating a move to a new apartment on the night he was killed.
"Koury was my baby and I love him. He loves pink and all I want to do is send him off well. He was fun, lovable, caring, just a good guy, and very overprotective of me his mother and other loved ones in general," she wrote. "I ask that you reach down in your heart and help me create a celebration of life for Koury."
Raleigh police don't know if Thomas or anyone accompanying him was armed, said spokeswoman Laura Hourigan. Police records show authorities were not called to the block -- for the party or otherwise -- before the first call in which the man told the dispatcher he was going to "secure the neighborhood."
As for whether Copley was acting in a neighborhood watch capacity, Hourigan said there were many such groups in the community, but she is "unsure if that one is a registered group or not."
 
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HamburgerBoy

Lifer
Apr 12, 2004
27,111
318
126
Yeah, this is more akin to that white guy that shot the van with the unarmed black guys who were playing their damned hoodlum music too loud or whatever. (I forget the verdict of that case.) Execution seems a fair punishment in this case.

EDIT: Michael Dunn/Jordan Davis, shooter got life.
 

Zaap

Diamond Member
Jun 12, 2008
7,162
424
126
"I'm going outside to secure my neighborhood...
That phrase right there (in a sane world) should be enough to fry this dipshit.

People have every right to defend their homes. (INSIDE their homes, from people INVADING their homes.) No one has any right to 'secure their neighborhood' admitting they are leaving their home.

But after the insanity of the Trayvon Martin case, who the fuck knows anymore. If stupid people can buy that it's fine to claim 'self defense' and kill someone blocks from your home when you're PLAYING at being a neighborhood watch cretin, causing the conflict that you supposedly have to 'defend' yourself from, that same (insane) mentality will buy that some loon has every right to go outside of his house and "protect his neighborhood" using deadly force.

It shouldn't make a shit's worth of difference what anyone was doing out in the street near his home, what time of night it was, etc. you shouldn't be able to just go out and execute someone for disturbing the peace. Being on some neighborhood watch- self appointed dipshit, or some actual group, also shouldn't matter a hill of beans.

At least I would hope not. In this crazy day and age, who knows? Maybe he'll get off scott free, instead of be thrown under a jail with the keys thrown away where he belongs.
 

HamburgerBoy

Lifer
Apr 12, 2004
27,111
318
126
Joe Horn wasn't convicted of anything after defending his neighbors home from non-violent burglars. I don't see anything wrong with people taking a more proactive approach to their personal safety and the safety of their peers. The guy in the op's story was seemingly under no real threat, however.
 

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
21,619
16,895
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"I'm going to secure my neighborhood. I'm on the neighborhood watch. "

Reminds me of this:
 

Zaap

Diamond Member
Jun 12, 2008
7,162
424
126
Joe Horn wasn't convicted of anything after defending his neighbors home from non-violent burglars.
Different matter I'd say with actual burglars. I have no sympathy for anyone killed in the course of invading someone else's home. By a neighbor makes it legally more tricky I'm sure, but I still have no sympathy for the burglar.

That ends with just being able to shoot someone in the street outside your home, even if they are loud and obnoxious at 3am or whatever. Call the police and put the gun away, UNLESS directly threatened in your home by someone else IN your home.
 

KB

Diamond Member
Nov 8, 1999
5,406
389
126
"I fired my warning shot like I'm supposed to by law."

Not sure what law books he reads. This guy will be convicted of murder, no doubt.
 

DrunkenSano

Diamond Member
Aug 8, 2008
3,892
490
126
Unless they somehow find evidence that the group of African Americans loitering near his property were armed, he definitely should be convicted of murder. Now if there is evidence that surfaces that the group was armed, he may have a case. Definitely need more information on this.
 

Tormac

Senior member
Feb 3, 2011
260
58
101
If the homeowner was not actually being threatened and had a fear for his life he is going to be in hot water.

The thing about firing a warning shot seems particularly crazy. He sounds like he knows that he is in the wrong.
 

SheHateMe

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2012
7,251
20
81
He shot the guy from his garage.

If he doesn't go to prison, don't get mad if somebody retaliates.
 

soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
17,788
6,041
136
So, it'd be ok to shoot someone open carrying near my property?

Edit: I was replying to drunken sano's post.
 

bshole

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2013
8,315
1,215
126
He shot the guy from his garage.

If he doesn't go to prison, don't get mad if somebody retaliates.

Why we would get mad? The idiot that retaliates will go to prison. The answer to vigilantism is not more of the same.
 

DrunkenSano

Diamond Member
Aug 8, 2008
3,892
490
126
So, it'd be ok to shoot someone open carrying near my property?

Edit: I was replying to drunken sano's post.

Like I said, depends on what the evidence shows. If the weapon was holstered, obviously not. If the the weapon was being pointed at you? Yes, you are allowed to shoot.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
That phrase right there (in a sane world) should be enough to fry this dipshit.

People have every right to defend their homes. (INSIDE their homes, from people INVADING their homes.) No one has any right to 'secure their neighborhood' admitting they are leaving their home.

But after the insanity of the Trayvon Martin case, who the fuck knows anymore. If stupid people can buy that it's fine to claim 'self defense' and kill someone blocks from your home when you're PLAYING at being a neighborhood watch cretin, causing the conflict that you supposedly have to 'defend' yourself from, that same (insane) mentality will buy that some loon has every right to go outside of his house and "protect his neighborhood" using deadly force.

It shouldn't make a shit's worth of difference what anyone was doing out in the street near his home, what time of night it was, etc. you shouldn't be able to just go out and execute someone for disturbing the peace. Being on some neighborhood watch- self appointed dipshit, or some actual group, also shouldn't matter a hill of beans.

At least I would hope not. In this crazy day and age, who knows? Maybe he'll get off scott free, instead of be thrown under a jail with the keys thrown away where he belongs.

Correct in this case and correct generally but that's not absolute. If someone was outside your home soaking it with gasoline and clearly intent on committing arson with you inside then you're under no obligation to stay inside and burn. Or if someone was being raped on your front lawn. Et cetera.
 

soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
17,788
6,041
136
Like I said, depends on what the evidence shows. If the weapon was holstered, obviously not. If the the weapon was being pointed at you? Yes, you are allowed to shoot.
Since no mention of weapon found on victim, he better have video to back his claim.
 

thraashman

Lifer
Apr 10, 2000
11,112
1,587
126
Yeah, this is more akin to that white guy that shot the van with the unarmed black guys who were playing their damned hoodlum music too loud or whatever. (I forget the verdict of that case.) Execution seems a fair punishment in this case.

EDIT: Michael Dunn/Jordan Davis, shooter got life.

I hadn't looked up the verdict on that case. I remember the thread here on it that was mostly SpatiallyAware finding new ways to make false claims and say racist things.
 

DrunkenSano

Diamond Member
Aug 8, 2008
3,892
490
126
That does bring up the question of what is the purpose of a neighborhood watch? The right to bear arms to defend yourself is because the police are usually minutes away while violence onto you or your loved ones are seconds away. As a neighborhood watch, what is their responsibility? If someone in their neighborhood is in danger, are they allowed to take action to defend the neighbor? If not, what is the purpose of a neighborhood watch?

Since no mention of weapon found on victim, he better have video to back his claim.

Pretty much, if there is no video evidence, he's most likely going to be charged and convicted for murder.
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
14,359
4,640
136
As a neighborhood watch, what is their responsibility? If someone in their neighborhood is in danger, are they allowed to take action to defend the neighbor? If not, what is the purpose of a neighborhood watch?

When they were originally formed the idea was to be sets of eyes watching and if something suspicious was happening to call the police. This was a time before home alarms were affordable and every street was well lit. The idea was that crime happens when no one is paying attention and that you can stop crime by removing opportunity. Somehow this has morphed into armed vigilantes who all think they are some mix of The Punisher and Batman wrapped in an American flag.
 
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SheHateMe

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2012
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As someone who lives in a pretty nice community...there is absolutely no need for a neighborhood watch. If I called the cops right now, they would be here faster than I could put the phone down.

There was absolutely no need for this guy to defend the neighborhood.
 

Zaap

Diamond Member
Jun 12, 2008
7,162
424
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Correct in this case and correct generally but that's not absolute. If someone was outside your home soaking it with gasoline and clearly intent on committing arson with you inside then you're under no obligation to stay inside and burn. Or if someone was being raped on your front lawn. Et cetera.
Totally agree.

Had any such situation been the case here, I think most of us would agree he had every right to protect himself, family, his property and even that of others. (From REAL immediate threat such as you describe not just 'they were having a loud party and making noise!")

Anyway, I'd be real surprised if there isn't a prison sentence for this idiot.