Man-Made Warming in Antarctica

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Take a pebble with some tongs. Heat it up good and hot with a propane torch. Throw it in a 50 degree Olympic-sized swimming pool.
Enjoy your "heated pool."


Mauna Loa is the largest mountain on Earth by volume. ~18,000 cubic miles. Most other volcanoes would be a pimple on her ass. (Mt Fuji is maybe 100 cubic miles, being very generous, and that ain't a small volcano)

The oceans are 310 million cubic miles of this dense substance we call "water."

And Mauna Loa wasn't created in a day. Or a year. More like a good chunk of the way to a million years.

The oceans are a very, very, very large bucket, and the drop in that bucket that is the average volcanism level is already included in the ocean's temperature.
Please explain the mechanism of anthropogenic global warming that would cause extremely concentrated heating of a very specific area such as that seen along the coast of the Ross Ice Shelf.
 
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DominionSeraph

Diamond Member
Jul 22, 2009
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Please explain the mechanism of anthropogenic global warming that would cause extremely concentrated heating of a very specific area such as that seen along the coast of the Ross Ice Shelf.

Did you not see where that was explained by calving? It is a change in recorded temperatures explained by a change in what is being recorded -- water vs ice.
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
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It does not matter if you believe there is global warming. You can not fix it can you?

The climate is always changing.

What happened at the end of the last ice age to make it Warmer/

If you cant answer that then you know nothing!
 
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Did you not see where that was explained by calving? It is a change in recorded temperatures explained by a change in what is being recorded -- water vs ice.
So let me see if I got this straight...it's actually calving that's causing extremely high and localized ocean temperatures along the coast of the Ross Ice Shelf. Is that what your saying?
 
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Protective Ice Flow in Antarctica Linked to Warmth of Volcanoes

By WILLIAM K. STEVENS

Published: February 16, 1993

NOT least among the possible catastrophes that could result from a warming of the earth's climate, some scientists say, is a collapse of the vast West Antarctic Ice Sheet, an event that would cause the global sea level to rise by some 20 feet. Now investigators have found evidence of a wholly different factor in the ice sheet's stability that could be as important as climate: volcanism.

Huge rivers of ice flowing toward the sea from a main ice reservoir in the continent's interior keep the ocean from coming into direct contact with the domed reservoir, scientists from several institutions say in the current issue of the British journal Nature. If the relatively warm ocean waters were to lap at the interior reservoir, the ice sheet, which rests on bedrock that is below sea level, would begin to disintegrate and would eventually collapse, releasing great amounts of pent-up water to the ocean.

The scientists report that they have identified what they believe is the mechanism that produces the ice streams, and they suggest some ways in which the mechanism could be undermined with disastrous results for coastal areas worldwide.

Using a variety of instruments, including a laser altimeter and a radar altimeter, the scientists surveyed the ice sheet from the air to determine the contours of both the ice sheet and the rocky base underneath, along with the magnetic and gravity fields associated with the rock base. From the resulting data, collected in the Southern Hemisphere summer of 1991-92, they concluded that an active volcano underlies one part of the area where the ice streams form. Combining this with satellite data that suggest similar and more widespread geologic forms, they suggest that other volcanoes underlie the ice as well.

The volcanoes, the investigators believe, indicate that the ground in that region produces warmth that melts just enough ice to produce a slippery layer of mud over which ice migrating toward the sea can move at a rapid pace of about half a mile a year. Each of the rivers formed this way is about 30 to 60 miles wide and flows for hundreds of miles before reaching the seashore. There it continues flowing out into the ocean to produce the Ross Ice Shelf, a huge offshore expanse of ice that forms the rampart of the barrier separating the ocean from the central ice reservoir.

The ice streams could vanish, said one of the scientists, Dr. Donald D. Blankenship of the University of Texas at Austin, if climatic changes should cause the sea level to rise enough for the ocean shore to move inland. This could happen if sea water expanded and its level rose as a result of global warming, for example, or if any change in oceanic circulation patterns resulting from climatic change produced warmer ocean waters around Antarctica.

If the shoreline moved inland beyond the area of volcanism where the ice streams form, said Dr. Blankenship, the ice streams would disappear and would no longer feed the Ross Ice Shelf. It would begin to shrink, setting off a retreat of the ice barrier that in time would allow the ocean to come into direct contact with the interior ice reservoir. The reservoir would begin to disintegrate on contact with the warmer water and ultimately the entire ice sheet would collapse. How long this would take is unknown, he said, since "that situation doesn't exist in nature right now.

In addition to Dr. Blankenship, the authors of the paper are Dr. Robin E. Bell of the Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory of Columbia University; Dr. Steven M. Hodge, Dr. John C. Behrendt and Dr. Carol A. Finn of the United States Geological Survey, and John M. Brozena of the Naval Research Laboratory in Washington.

Diagram: "Natural Flow of Icy Rivers" shows how volcanoes may disrupt the ice flow and lead to a disastrous rise in sea levels. (Source: Nature)

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F0CEED81538F935A25751C0A965958260
 

DominionSeraph

Diamond Member
Jul 22, 2009
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So let me see if I got this straight...it's actually calving that's causing extremely high and localized ocean temperatures along the coast of the Ross Ice Shelf. Is that what your saying?

What high temperatures?

Do you understand how to read a graph? This graphs a change in temperature at a geographical location. You do realize that if you measure surface temperature one year in one spot and are reading the surface of ice, and measuring surface temperature another year in the same geographical coordinate and are now reading water, that it isn't surprising that you might find a change? This is not "change in ocean temperature" because you weren't reading the ocean to start.

This is not graphing temperature relative to surrounding areas, it's graphing temperature relative to previous temperature in the same spot.
If I hover my 36C hand over a 20C wall, take a snapshot, then remove my hand from the picture and take another picture, a graph like the above will show a 16C drop in temperature in the location where my hand was from the first picture to the second. This does not mean that there is a localized spot where the wall is 4C. It will show up blue but that doesn't mean it's a cold spot. It's 20C, just like the rest of the wall.

Same goes for the edge of the Ross ice shelf. Read cold ice, then take that ice away and read the slightly warmer water beneath, and you'll be graphing a local temperature rise. Legend that red and it'll show up red. That doesn't mean the water there is warmer than the surrounding ocean -- it could even be colder.

It ain't a thermal red=hot. Red water does not mean hot water.
 
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DominionSeraph

Diamond Member
Jul 22, 2009
8,386
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Protective Ice Flow in Antarctica Linked to Warmth of Volcanoes

By WILLIAM K. STEVENS

Published: February 16, 1993

NOT least among the possible catastrophes that could result from a warming of the earth's climate, some scientists say, is a collapse of the vast West Antarctic Ice Sheet, an event that would cause the global sea level to rise by some 20 feet. Now investigators have found evidence of a wholly different factor in the ice sheet's stability that could be as important as climate: volcanism.

Huge rivers of ice flowing toward the sea from a main ice reservoir in the continent's interior keep the ocean from coming into direct contact with the domed reservoir, scientists from several institutions say in the current issue of the British journal Nature. If the relatively warm ocean waters were to lap at the interior reservoir, the ice sheet, which rests on bedrock that is below sea level, would begin to disintegrate and would eventually collapse, releasing great amounts of pent-up water to the ocean.

The scientists report that they have identified what they believe is the mechanism that produces the ice streams, and they suggest some ways in which the mechanism could be undermined with disastrous results for coastal areas worldwide.

Using a variety of instruments, including a laser altimeter and a radar altimeter, the scientists surveyed the ice sheet from the air to determine the contours of both the ice sheet and the rocky base underneath, along with the magnetic and gravity fields associated with the rock base. From the resulting data, collected in the Southern Hemisphere summer of 1991-92, they concluded that an active volcano underlies one part of the area where the ice streams form. Combining this with satellite data that suggest similar and more widespread geologic forms, they suggest that other volcanoes underlie the ice as well.

The volcanoes, the investigators believe, indicate that the ground in that region produces warmth that melts just enough ice to produce a slippery layer of mud over which ice migrating toward the sea can move at a rapid pace of about half a mile a year. Each of the rivers formed this way is about 30 to 60 miles wide and flows for hundreds of miles before reaching the seashore. There it continues flowing out into the ocean to produce the Ross Ice Shelf, a huge offshore expanse of ice that forms the rampart of the barrier separating the ocean from the central ice reservoir.

The ice streams could vanish, said one of the scientists, Dr. Donald D. Blankenship of the University of Texas at Austin, if climatic changes should cause the sea level to rise enough for the ocean shore to move inland. This could happen if sea water expanded and its level rose as a result of global warming, for example, or if any change in oceanic circulation patterns resulting from climatic change produced warmer ocean waters around Antarctica.

If the shoreline moved inland beyond the area of volcanism where the ice streams form, said Dr. Blankenship, the ice streams would disappear and would no longer feed the Ross Ice Shelf. It would begin to shrink, setting off a retreat of the ice barrier that in time would allow the ocean to come into direct contact with the interior ice reservoir. The reservoir would begin to disintegrate on contact with the warmer water and ultimately the entire ice sheet would collapse. How long this would take is unknown, he said, since "that situation doesn't exist in nature right now.

In addition to Dr. Blankenship, the authors of the paper are Dr. Robin E. Bell of the Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory of Columbia University; Dr. Steven M. Hodge, Dr. John C. Behrendt and Dr. Carol A. Finn of the United States Geological Survey, and John M. Brozena of the Naval Research Laboratory in Washington.

Diagram: "Natural Flow of Icy Rivers" shows how volcanoes may disrupt the ice flow and lead to a disastrous rise in sea levels. (Source: Nature)

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F0CEED81538F935A25751C0A965958260

Ummm... exactly just how stupid are you? I'm asking that in all seriousness, because you appear to just be looking for keywords to wrest. May I suggest actually UNDERSTANDING what is written instead?
This is about glacial flows feeding the Ross Ice Shelf that may stop if the mechanism underneath is disrupted, such as with a sea level rise. You no longer have a flow to the ocean if you are at the ocean.

It is, "Volcanism on land melts some ice into water, which then spreads downstream, lubricating ice movement." It is not, "Antarctica is an active volcano in its entirety and it is erupting, melting all the ice."
 

nusyo

Member
Feb 27, 2011
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heh ... i see there are many here who believe what their politicians tell them (aka ALgore)

oh yeah and some scientists who support the global warming theory got caught manipulating data (aka hacked e-mails from Great Britain)

was it this year that snowed like crazy? and freezing like never before? and yet they were saying because the air is warmer it can hold more water or something like that :)
really? :)
 

NeoV

Diamond Member
Apr 18, 2000
9,504
2
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nusyo - please keep your feeble mind out of discussions with big people, k, thx - you may want to actually read about the 'manipulated data' before you go around quoting it - just because Rush said so doesn't make it true.

doc - way to own yourself - you obviously don't even understand how to read a graph - so can we call this round over and done with?
 
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It is, "Volcanism on land melts some ice into water, which then spreads downstream, lubricating ice movement." It is not, "Antarctica is an active volcano in its entirety and it is erupting, melting all the ice."
I never said or implied anything close to this...exactly just how stupid are you? :rolleyes:

BTW....I'm asking in all seriousness.
 

DrPizza

Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
Mar 5, 2001
49,601
167
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www.slatebrookfarm.com
Protective Ice Flow in Antarctica Linked to Warmth of Volcanoes

By WILLIAM K. STEVENS

Published: February 16, 1993

NOT least among the possible catastrophes that could result from a warming of the earth's climate, some scientists say, is a collapse of the vast West Antarctic Ice Sheet, an event that would cause the global sea level to rise by some 20 feet. Now investigators have found evidence of a wholly different factor in the ice sheet's stability that could be as important as climate: volcanism.

Huge rivers of ice flowing toward the sea from a main ice reservoir in the continent's interior keep the ocean from coming into direct contact with the domed reservoir, scientists from several institutions say in the current issue of the British journal Nature. If the relatively warm ocean waters were to lap at the interior reservoir, the ice sheet, which rests on bedrock that is below sea level, would begin to disintegrate and would eventually collapse, releasing great amounts of pent-up water to the ocean.

The scientists report that they have identified what they believe is the mechanism that produces the ice streams, and they suggest some ways in which the mechanism could be undermined with disastrous results for coastal areas worldwide.

Using a variety of instruments, including a laser altimeter and a radar altimeter, the scientists surveyed the ice sheet from the air to determine the contours of both the ice sheet and the rocky base underneath, along with the magnetic and gravity fields associated with the rock base. From the resulting data, collected in the Southern Hemisphere summer of 1991-92, they concluded that an active volcano underlies one part of the area where the ice streams form. Combining this with satellite data that suggest similar and more widespread geologic forms, they suggest that other volcanoes underlie the ice as well.

The volcanoes, the investigators believe, indicate that the ground in that region produces warmth that melts just enough ice to produce a slippery layer of mud over which ice migrating toward the sea can move at a rapid pace of about half a mile a year. Each of the rivers formed this way is about 30 to 60 miles wide and flows for hundreds of miles before reaching the seashore. There it continues flowing out into the ocean to produce the Ross Ice Shelf, a huge offshore expanse of ice that forms the rampart of the barrier separating the ocean from the central ice reservoir.

The ice streams could vanish, said one of the scientists, Dr. Donald D. Blankenship of the University of Texas at Austin, if climatic changes should cause the sea level to rise enough for the ocean shore to move inland. This could happen if sea water expanded and its level rose as a result of global warming, for example, or if any change in oceanic circulation patterns resulting from climatic change produced warmer ocean waters around Antarctica.

If the shoreline moved inland beyond the area of volcanism where the ice streams form, said Dr. Blankenship, the ice streams would disappear and would no longer feed the Ross Ice Shelf. It would begin to shrink, setting off a retreat of the ice barrier that in time would allow the ocean to come into direct contact with the interior ice reservoir. The reservoir would begin to disintegrate on contact with the warmer water and ultimately the entire ice sheet would collapse. How long this would take is unknown, he said, since "that situation doesn't exist in nature right now.

In addition to Dr. Blankenship, the authors of the paper are Dr. Robin E. Bell of the Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory of Columbia University; Dr. Steven M. Hodge, Dr. John C. Behrendt and Dr. Carol A. Finn of the United States Geological Survey, and John M. Brozena of the Naval Research Laboratory in Washington.

Diagram: "Natural Flow of Icy Rivers" shows how volcanoes may disrupt the ice flow and lead to a disastrous rise in sea levels. (Source: Nature)

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F0CEED81538F935A25751C0A965958260


Congratulations, you've proven yourself an idiot who cannot even understand the articles that YOU post. Discussing this issue is pointless.

Re: to the poster above who suggested solar cycles. The original paper (which the idiots quote all the time) stated that a small degree of warming is seen on other planets (that's the part that's quoted) but it's not significant enough to explain the amount of warming seen on Earth (that's the part that idiots conveniently forget to quote.)
 
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Congratulations, you've proven yourself an idiot who cannot even understand the articles that YOU post. Discussing this issue is pointless.
I understand the article I posted but, yes...discussing this issue with you is pointless as you're clearly much more intelligent than I could ever hope to be....and probably better looking too!

I know this may be difficult for you to conceive...but has the thought ever crossed your highly developed mind that you may have misunderstood what I'm saying? Or perhaps considered that in your zeal to demonstrate your intellectual superiority and then quickly run away, you've done exactly the opposite.
 
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piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
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How come meterologists say we are in a La'Nin'a weather pattern this year?

That means the oceans are cooler.

This has been an extremely cooler spring this year with predicted cooler temps and later killing frosts.

This has nothing to do with religion.
 
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Protip: Attempts to save face don't work against the scientifically-minded. Our perspective is too broad.
That line is over. Don't embarrass yourself further.
Look...you made up shit I never said and then have the audacity to say I embarassed myself. WTF is that?

You know...I'd was hoping for the chance to discuss this with someone who's actually a decent rational human being...instead of a dismissive, arrogant, "scientifically-minded", lying asshole like you.
 
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manimal

Lifer
Mar 30, 2007
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Congratulations, you've proven yourself an idiot who cannot even understand the articles that YOU post. Discussing this issue is pointless.

Re: to the poster above who suggested solar cycles. The original paper (which the idiots quote all the time) stated that a small degree of warming is seen on other planets (that's the part that's quoted) but it's not significant enough to explain the amount of warming seen on Earth (that's the part that idiots conveniently forget to quote.)

man crush!
 

Smoove910

Golden Member
Aug 2, 2006
1,235
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I think it's funny how the Earth is something like 4 to 5 billion years old. We as humans have been around for a while, but most recently in the past 100-200 years have started to document things and pay attention to weather patterns. For all we know, these types of patterns have occurred in the past. The hilarious part is once Mother Nature starts flicking her nose at us as humans, we automatically assume it is 'human caused global warming' when there's NO evidence that I've seen that indicates this didn't happen in in that 4-5 billion history of Earth.

Regardless, what the fuck are any of you pee-ons going to do about it? Anyone who thinks it's human caused, have you done anything about it? Do you live a 'green' lifestyle? I bet you drive a car too, eh?

This is not directed at any individual, but rather a mindset in our society...
 
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doc - way to own yourself - you obviously don't even understand how to read a graph - so can we call this round over and done with?
The round never really got started...let's start at the beginning so there are no misunderstandings, please teach me how to read a graph.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
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The round never really got started...let's start at the beginning so there are no misunderstandings, please teach me how to read a graph.
First, you decide what you want the graph to show . . .

Well, that's the NASA method anyway, where a screw up recording half a decade's measurements changes many decades worth of measurements because of the "special sauce" applied to make the graph "accurate". "Accurate" meaning it shows what you want it to show, of course.