man killed by cyclists for honking

[Hammer]

Originally posted by: Fausto

Originally posted by: Shockwave

Originally posted by: Fausto

Originally posted by: Shockwave

Originally posted by: Fausto

Originally posted by: Shockwave

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: Shockwave

Originally posted by: Don_Vito
This is unfortunate, but in all fairness I could probably point to ten stories in the last year of cyclists killed by careless or rage-aholic drivers, and it sounds like the driver may have provoked a conflict here. This does not excuse this killing by any means, of course, but it puts it in a context.

What context?! That cyclists should kill 1 driver a year as payback?!

No but if I was biking and some A-Hole stopped in traffic and came at me, I would defend myself.

Hey, I'm not saying driving over cyclists is ok, or bein an A-hile is ok by ANY stretch. But I wouldnt say it much puts it in context.
Need I link back to the thread stating just how piss poor cyclists are at observing road rules? I mean that in regards to the "putting it in context".
Yes, alot of cyclists get kiled. Yes, its unfortunate. But a hell of a lot of them bike a HELLUVA lot worse then the worst driver drives.

That is horseshit. 9 times out of 10 the cyclist dies because the motorist was doing something stupid. Yes, there are cyclists who ignore the rules of the road, but a lot of us actually obey them because the penalty for running a light might be...um...I dunno....death.

Pray tell how is it horseshit? Do or do not some cyclists bike like they own the road? And the sidewalks and grass too?

You said "a lot" of them and that their riding is "worse than the worst motorist", which is crap. Yes, some ride like they own the road. They are idiots, I will not debate that point. My point is that most of us (especially "serious" guys like me) do obey the rules of the road and get run over anyway. I have been hit or knocked down three times; in each case the driver was ticketed for failure to yield since that's exactly what they did.

Like I said, I don't do stupid stuff when riding because I want to minimize my odds of getting killed.

Edit- riding on sidewalks and grass is illegal. These people are also idiots. Conversely, the numerous people telling me to "get on the sidewalk" every day are also idiots.

I think we may have a hard time finding statistics on what percentage of cyclists ride like crap. Either way, even you can admit it does happen. Now, as to what percentage of bike/auto related deaths are due to the motorist versus due to the cyclist, that may be hard to find too.

Seems to be about 60% of the time, actually.

A whole pile of factoids for you.

from the bottom link you linked:

Bicyclists were judged to be in violation of the law in 62% of crashes from 1994-96.

 

[Shockwave]

Originally posted by: Fausto
Actually (and I know I sound like a broken record) more bike lanes and off-road bike paths like the ones in Denver/Boulder are the real solution. Then everyone has a space on the road and everyone's happy.

Now that I would agree to! But the funding has to come from a 3% increase on the cost of bikes and assessories....

 

[JulesMaximus]

Maybe if we all drove highly lifted trucks it wouldnt be a problem. The cyclists could just ride right under us and everyone would be happy

You still have the problem with the tires though. If they hovered 10 feet off the ground I MIGHT agree with you.

 

[Entity]

Originally posted by: Hammer

Bicyclists were judged to be in violation of the law in 62% of crashes from 1994-96.

Specific to Austin. Apparently the cyclists there must really suck.

 

[Fausto]

Originally posted by: Hammer

Originally posted by: Fausto

Originally posted by: Shockwave

Originally posted by: Fausto

Originally posted by: Shockwave

Originally posted by: Fausto

Originally posted by: Shockwave

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: Shockwave

Originally posted by: Don_Vito
This is unfortunate, but in all fairness I could probably point to ten stories in the last year of cyclists killed by careless or rage-aholic drivers, and it sounds like the driver may have provoked a conflict here. This does not excuse this killing by any means, of course, but it puts it in a context.

What context?! That cyclists should kill 1 driver a year as payback?!

No but if I was biking and some A-Hole stopped in traffic and came at me, I would defend myself.

Hey, I'm not saying driving over cyclists is ok, or bein an A-hile is ok by ANY stretch. But I wouldnt say it much puts it in context.
Need I link back to the thread stating just how piss poor cyclists are at observing road rules? I mean that in regards to the "putting it in context".
Yes, alot of cyclists get kiled. Yes, its unfortunate. But a hell of a lot of them bike a HELLUVA lot worse then the worst driver drives.

That is horseshit. 9 times out of 10 the cyclist dies because the motorist was doing something stupid. Yes, there are cyclists who ignore the rules of the road, but a lot of us actually obey them because the penalty for running a light might be...um...I dunno....death.

Pray tell how is it horseshit? Do or do not some cyclists bike like they own the road? And the sidewalks and grass too?

You said "a lot" of them and that their riding is "worse than the worst motorist", which is crap. Yes, some ride like they own the road. They are idiots, I will not debate that point. My point is that most of us (especially "serious" guys like me) do obey the rules of the road and get run over anyway. I have been hit or knocked down three times; in each case the driver was ticketed for failure to yield since that's exactly what they did.

Like I said, I don't do stupid stuff when riding because I want to minimize my odds of getting killed.

Edit- riding on sidewalks and grass is illegal. These people are also idiots. Conversely, the numerous people telling me to "get on the sidewalk" every day are also idiots.

I think we may have a hard time finding statistics on what percentage of cyclists ride like crap. Either way, even you can admit it does happen. Now, as to what percentage of bike/auto related deaths are due to the motorist versus due to the cyclist, that may be hard to find too.

Seems to be about 60% of the time, actually.

A whole pile of factoids for you.

from the bottom link you linked:

Bicyclists were judged to be in violation of the law in 62% of crashes from 1994-96.

Okay, but you're talking about Austin-specific stats there. College town = lots of people with bikes, but zero knowledge about the laws pertaining to them. I can't say that stat surprises me.

 

[KarenMarie]

gotta admit though, it is as annoying as he!! to get behind a cyclist doing 10-15 miles an hour in a 35mph zone...

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: Fausto

Okay, but you're talking about Austin-specific stats there. College town = lots of people with bikes, but zero knowledge about the laws pertaining to them. I can't say that stat surprises me.

Still a damn nice place to ride. I did the Ride For the Roses there one year and it was gorgeous. What a killer town . . .

 

[CraigRT]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: Fausto

Originally posted by: dxkj
My first thought was "Does fausto have an alibi?". The guy could have passed out after seeing a thong or something and hit his head on the road, and later changing his story.

I usually give anyone who honks at me a really enthusiastic wave as if I thought they were trying to say "Hi there!! Howya doing!". Drives them crazy since they're like "NOOOO!! I'm yelling at you with my horn, dammit!!"

That's the best way to deal with it.

ZV

agreed! I do the same!!
it's best to just mutter to yourself afterwards "what a jerkoff" or whatever and just let it slide otherwise.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: KarenMarie
gotta admit though, it is as annoying as he!! to get behind a cyclist doing 10-15 miles an hour in a 35mph zone...

Funeral processions are annoying too, but we all have to work together!

 

[KokomoGST]

Coo... first post on the new look forums...

anywho, I wonder what would be the total % of accidents caused by motorists in the case of any two-wheeled accident. I'm sure there are plenty of riders out there that are glad they wear their safety gear.

 

[Fausto]

Originally posted by: KarenMarie
gotta admit though, it is as annoying as he!! to get behind a cyclist doing 10-15 miles an hour in a 35mph zone...

Again, bike lanes would fix that problem.

The thing most people lack in that situation is perspective. We spend a lot of time in traffic being held up by other motorists, yet are fairly passive and accepting of this. Yet when confronted with a bike, people freak out even though it takes maybe 5 extra seconds (if that) to get around the guy. If he's hogging the lane for no reason, give him a beep to let him know you're there. The wind noise while riding is such that it's sometimes hard to hear cars behind you. Additionally, you have to understand that sometimes we take the whole lane because it's too narrow for a car and bike to occupy the lane at the same time. Taking the lane is the only way we can insure that cars will give us enough room when passing because they have to swing wide to do so. I personally just try to avoid roads that are this narrow because it just pisses people off as they don't get why you're in the middle of the lane.

On a lighter note, we usually have nice legs so at least try to enjoy the view when you're behind one of us.

 

[Fausto]

Originally posted by: CraigRT

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: Fausto

Originally posted by: dxkj
My first thought was "Does fausto have an alibi?". The guy could have passed out after seeing a thong or something and hit his head on the road, and later changing his story.

I usually give anyone who honks at me a really enthusiastic wave as if I thought they were trying to say "Hi there!! Howya doing!". Drives them crazy since they're like "NOOOO!! I'm yelling at you with my horn, dammit!!"

That's the best way to deal with it.

ZV

agreed! I do the same!!
it's best to just mutter to yourself afterwards "what a jerkoff" or whatever and just let it slide otherwise.

Yep. I only go after people if they do something really stupid or dangerous; otherwise, it's just not worth the aggravation.

The wave thing really is hilarious though.

 

[Spudd]

Originally posted by: Hammer
Police seek cyclists in driver's death
Pickup driver, injured in December, died Monday

By Dave Harmon

AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF

Thursday, April 22, 2004

What began as an angry exchange between two bicyclists and a motorist became a homicide this week ? four months after the fact ? when the driver died from injuries inflicted by one of the cyclists, police said.

Austin police are looking for two men who were riding mountain bikes in the 4200 block of Guadalupe Street on Dec. 17. According to police, 52-year-old James Michael Coffee was driving northbound behind the two cyclists and honked his horn at them. When they made "obscene gestures" at him, Coffee stopped in the road.

A witness told police that one of the cyclists then hit Coffee with an unknown object before he fled with the other cyclist, leaving Coffee lying in the road. Coffee was transferred to Fort Worth to be closer to his family during rehabilitation, police said, but died Monday from medical complications stemming from his injuries.

Police gave this description of the two suspects:

? White male, 40 to 50 years old, average height and build, with a long, curly beard and a black beanie on his head.

? White male, mid-30s, short and stocky, wearing a red sweatshirt.

Police are asking anyone with information about the case to call the homicide tip line at 477-3588 or CrimeStoppers at 472-8477.


Link

Sons of bitches...I hope they catch them and put them away for 25+.

 

[Childs]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

But a hell of a lot of them bike a HELLUVA lot worse then the worst driver drives.

Yeah but when a bicyclist rides wrecklessly he endangers mainly himself and not anyone else. Idiots in cars do far more damage.



I would have defended myself also if some nut job came after me. What could they have possibly hit him with? A bike pump? Sounds like self defense to me. Hell, I've hit dogs with a bike pump to keep from being attacked and even sprayed grapefruit juice in their eyes. I'd shoot a dog before letting it bite me. I wouldn't call this murder that's for sure. If the dumb fvck didn't get out of his vehicle he'd still be alive.



I had some idiot honking at me one time to get out of his way while I was waiting at a red light in the bike lane. Idiot was trying to turn right. I made him wait. Fvcktard. If he got out of his car I probably would have hit him with my bike pump.

Defending yourself is one thing, but this doesn't look like self defense. Two men, 40s and 30s, hit a guy in his 50s with an object, which he eventually dies from. That is akin to me (late 20s...err 30) getting into with someone older, and most likely not in shape compared to bicyclists, then hitting him with a bat and claiming self defense. They crossed the line, no matter how many times he honked at them. They probably didn't intend to kill him, but it seems reasonable to assume that they weren't affraid of him. Of course, Arnold Swartzeneger is over 50, but it still seems like they went too far, and should be accountable for their actions.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Don_Vito
This is unfortunate, but in all fairness I could probably point to ten stories in the last year of cyclists killed by careless or rage-aholic drivers, and it sounds like the driver may have provoked a conflict here. This does not excuse this killing by any means, of course, but it puts it in a context.

2 wrongs don't make a right. Manslaughter is still manslaughter, and is still a felony punishable by years in prison.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Don_Vito
This is unfortunate, but in all fairness I could probably point to ten stories in the last year of cyclists killed by careless or rage-aholic drivers, and it sounds like the driver may have provoked a conflict here. This does not excuse this killing by any means, of course, but it puts it in a context.

2 wrongs don't make a right. Manslaughter is still manslaughter, and is still a felony punishable by years in prison.

I've now said three times that there is no excuse for this killing. That said, the jury is still out (no pun intended) on what actually happened here.

 

[boyRacer]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Don_Vito
This is unfortunate, but in all fairness I could probably point to ten stories in the last year of cyclists killed by careless or rage-aholic drivers, and it sounds like the driver may have provoked a conflict here. This does not excuse this killing by any means, of course, but it puts it in a context.

2 wrongs don't make a right. Manslaughter is still manslaughter, and is still a felony punishable by years in prison.

 

[LS20]

i think this stems from the "im behind a 3000 pound hunk of mobile steel and im invincible" mentality ... the driver, most likely, was being overly aggressive. and that mentality is especially prevalent here in austin... most commonly in 19 year old punks in daddy's Ford SUV with no patience. one of the bane of being in a college town

Guadalupe is a multi-lane street... the guy could've easily passed on the left. It's also a moderately dense street... meaning one drives around 30mph there... unless these bikers were crawling, they weren't hampering traffic. Lastly, everytime on that block of Guadalupe... im hitting 25mph easily

im not saying his death was deserved, cuz i dont know the situation, and its really hard to justify a death, but when people choose to act aggressively, they should expect/anticipate some sort of requital

 

[Ronstang]

Originally posted by: Entity

Originally posted by: Hammer

Bicyclists were judged to be in violation of the law in 62% of crashes from 1994-96.

Specific to Austin. Apparently the cyclists there must really suck.

Well it is a city full of liberal whacko hippie types with an attitude of entitlement.....what do you expect?

 

[LS20]

Originally posted by: Entity

Specific to Austin. Apparently the cyclists there must really suck.

LANCE lives here

 

[boyRacer]

Originally posted by: LS20

Originally posted by: Entity

Specific to Austin. Apparently the cyclists there must really suck.

LANCE lives here

Speaking of Lance... *SPOILER* ...he just won the 3rd stage of TdG and the TT right after... now in yellow jersey.

 

[HomerSapien]

Don't think I have ever seen an adult wearing a beanie. This pair should not be that hard to find

You havent been to austin much have you. Austin is proud of shirts, stickers, etc that say "Keep Austin Weird." Its hard to pick "a" freak out among many.


As much as people adore bike lanes, i think they are crap. I live in College Station, top 20-25 in the nation for being bike friendly. I cant count the number of times people drive in the bike lanes, park in them or swerve into them to go around a turning vehicle.. People just arent used to bike lanes. I will agree with the generalization that most cyclists do not follow the law as close as drivers and generally bring some of the accidents upon themselves.

People just need to chill when it comes to driving and SLOW THE NOSE NUGGET DOWN.



Oh yeah, Austin has the rep for hippies, but its been 10 years since they have been more than a handful.