man killed by cyclists for honking

[Hammer]

Police seek cyclists in driver's death
Pickup driver, injured in December, died Monday

By Dave Harmon

AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF

Thursday, April 22, 2004

What began as an angry exchange between two bicyclists and a motorist became a homicide this week ? four months after the fact ? when the driver died from injuries inflicted by one of the cyclists, police said.

Austin police are looking for two men who were riding mountain bikes in the 4200 block of Guadalupe Street on Dec. 17. According to police, 52-year-old James Michael Coffee was driving northbound behind the two cyclists and honked his horn at them. When they made "obscene gestures" at him, Coffee stopped in the road.

A witness told police that one of the cyclists then hit Coffee with an unknown object before he fled with the other cyclist, leaving Coffee lying in the road. Coffee was transferred to Fort Worth to be closer to his family during rehabilitation, police said, but died Monday from medical complications stemming from his injuries.

Police gave this description of the two suspects:

? White male, 40 to 50 years old, average height and build, with a long, curly beard and a black beanie on his head.

? White male, mid-30s, short and stocky, wearing a red sweatshirt.

Police are asking anyone with information about the case to call the homicide tip line at 477-3588 or CrimeStoppers at 472-8477.


Link

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

This is unfortunate, but in all fairness I could probably point to ten stories in the last year of cyclists killed by careless or rage-aholic drivers, and it sounds like the driver may have provoked a conflict here. This does not excuse this killing by any means, of course, but it puts it in a context.

 

[Shockwave]

Originally posted by: Don_Vito
This is unfortunate, but in all fairness I could probably point to ten stories in the last year of cyclists killed by careless or rage-aholic drivers, and it sounds like the driver may have provoked a conflict here. This does not excuse this killing by any means, of course, but it puts it in a context.

What context?! That cyclists should kill 1 motorist a year as payback?! Theres a buge difference between an accident and an attack. If I run over a cyclists (God forbid) because he swerved in front of me (And dont tell me all cyclists are perfect law abiding riders) and he dies, thats an accident. Unfortunate. Now, if I'm screaming and yelling at someone and turn around and whack them in the head and kill them, thats a WHOLE different story.

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: Don_Vito
This is unfortunate, but in all fairness I could probably point to ten stories in the last year of cyclists killed by careless or rage-aholic drivers, and it sounds like the driver may have provoked a conflict here. This does not excuse this killing by any means, of course, but it puts it in a context.

I was about to say something like that also. All he had to do is go around or wait a whole minute :roll:
I ride my bike and have to stay on the sidewalk here in Raleigh NC as most people can barely drive with other cars, let alone bikers.

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: Shockwave

Originally posted by: Don_Vito
This is unfortunate, but in all fairness I could probably point to ten stories in the last year of cyclists killed by careless or rage-aholic drivers, and it sounds like the driver may have provoked a conflict here. This does not excuse this killing by any means, of course, but it puts it in a context.

What context?! That cyclists should kill 1 driver a year as payback?!

No but if I was biking and some A-Hole stopped in traffic and came at me, I would defend myself.

 

[Nitemare]

Don't think I have ever seen an adult wearing a beanie. This pair should not be that hard to find

 

[Shockwave]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: Shockwave

Originally posted by: Don_Vito
This is unfortunate, but in all fairness I could probably point to ten stories in the last year of cyclists killed by careless or rage-aholic drivers, and it sounds like the driver may have provoked a conflict here. This does not excuse this killing by any means, of course, but it puts it in a context.

What context?! That cyclists should kill 1 driver a year as payback?!

No but if I was biking and some A-Hole stopped in traffic and came at me, I would defend myself.

Hey, I'm not saying driving over cyclists is ok, or bein an A-hile is ok by ANY stretch. But I wouldnt say it much puts it in context.
Need I link back to the thread stating just how piss poor cyclists are at observing road rules? I mean that in regards to the "putting it in context".
Yes, alot of cyclists get kiled. Yes, its unfortunate. But a hell of a lot of them bike a HELLUVA lot worse then the worst driver drives.

 

[CPA]

Originally posted by: Nitemare
Don't think I have ever seen an adult wearing a beanie. This pair should not be that hard to find

curly beard. beanie.

My first thought was: this guy was beaten to death by an Orthodox Jew. (<---just commenting on the description, no malice intended)

 

[dxkj]

My first thought was "Does fausto have an alibi?". The guy could have passed out after seeing a thong or something and hit his head on the road, and later changing his story.

 

[Fausto]

Originally posted by: Shockwave

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: Shockwave

Originally posted by: Don_Vito
This is unfortunate, but in all fairness I could probably point to ten stories in the last year of cyclists killed by careless or rage-aholic drivers, and it sounds like the driver may have provoked a conflict here. This does not excuse this killing by any means, of course, but it puts it in a context.

What context?! That cyclists should kill 1 driver a year as payback?!

No but if I was biking and some A-Hole stopped in traffic and came at me, I would defend myself.

Hey, I'm not saying driving over cyclists is ok, or bein an A-hile is ok by ANY stretch. But I wouldnt say it much puts it in context.
Need I link back to the thread stating just how piss poor cyclists are at observing road rules? I mean that in regards to the "putting it in context".
Yes, alot of cyclists get kiled. Yes, its unfortunate. But a hell of a lot of them bike a HELLUVA lot worse then the worst driver drives.

That is horseshit. 9 times out of 10 the cyclist dies because the motorist was doing something stupid. Yes, there are cyclists who ignore the rules of the road, but a lot of us actually obey them because the penalty for running a light might be...um...I dunno....death.

 

[Fausto]

Originally posted by: dxkj
My first thought was "Does fausto have an alibi?". The guy could have passed out after seeing a thong or something and hit his head on the road, and later changing his story.

I usually give anyone who honks at me a really enthusiastic wave as if I thought they were trying to say "Hi there!! Howya doing!". Drives them crazy since they're like "NOOOO!! I'm yelling at you with my horn, dammit!!"

 

[isasir]

Originally posted by: dxkj
My first thought was "Does fausto have an alibi?". The guy could have passed out after seeing a thong or something and hit his head on the road, and later changing his story.

You mean he changed his story after he died?

 

[Shockwave]

Originally posted by: Fausto

Originally posted by: Shockwave

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: Shockwave

Originally posted by: Don_Vito
This is unfortunate, but in all fairness I could probably point to ten stories in the last year of cyclists killed by careless or rage-aholic drivers, and it sounds like the driver may have provoked a conflict here. This does not excuse this killing by any means, of course, but it puts it in a context.

What context?! That cyclists should kill 1 driver a year as payback?!

No but if I was biking and some A-Hole stopped in traffic and came at me, I would defend myself.

Hey, I'm not saying driving over cyclists is ok, or bein an A-hile is ok by ANY stretch. But I wouldnt say it much puts it in context.
Need I link back to the thread stating just how piss poor cyclists are at observing road rules? I mean that in regards to the "putting it in context".
Yes, alot of cyclists get kiled. Yes, its unfortunate. But a hell of a lot of them bike a HELLUVA lot worse then the worst driver drives.

That is horseshit. 9 times out of 10 the cyclist dies because the motorist was doing something stupid. Yes, there are cyclists who ignore the rules of the road, but a lot of us actually obey them because the penalty for running a light might be...um...I dunno....death.

Pray tell how is it horseshit? Do or do not some cyclists bike like they own the road? And the sidewalks and grass too?

 

[beatle]

Originally posted by: Fausto

Originally posted by: dxkj
My first thought was "Does fausto have an alibi?". The guy could have passed out after seeing a thong or something and hit his head on the road, and later changing his story.

I usually give anyone who honks at me a really enthusiastic wave as if I thought they were trying to say "Hi there!! Howya doing!". Drives them crazy since they're like "NOOOO!! I'm yelling at you with my horn, dammit!!"

LOL :beer:

 

[Fausto]

Originally posted by: Shockwave

Originally posted by: Fausto

Originally posted by: Shockwave

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: Shockwave

Originally posted by: Don_Vito
This is unfortunate, but in all fairness I could probably point to ten stories in the last year of cyclists killed by careless or rage-aholic drivers, and it sounds like the driver may have provoked a conflict here. This does not excuse this killing by any means, of course, but it puts it in a context.

What context?! That cyclists should kill 1 driver a year as payback?!

No but if I was biking and some A-Hole stopped in traffic and came at me, I would defend myself.

Hey, I'm not saying driving over cyclists is ok, or bein an A-hile is ok by ANY stretch. But I wouldnt say it much puts it in context.
Need I link back to the thread stating just how piss poor cyclists are at observing road rules? I mean that in regards to the "putting it in context".
Yes, alot of cyclists get kiled. Yes, its unfortunate. But a hell of a lot of them bike a HELLUVA lot worse then the worst driver drives.

That is horseshit. 9 times out of 10 the cyclist dies because the motorist was doing something stupid. Yes, there are cyclists who ignore the rules of the road, but a lot of us actually obey them because the penalty for running a light might be...um...I dunno....death.

Pray tell how is it horseshit? Do or do not some cyclists bike like they own the road? And the sidewalks and grass too?

You said "a lot" of them and that their riding is "worse than the worst motorist", which is crap. Yes, some ride like they own the road. They are idiots, I will not debate that point. My point is that most of us (especially "serious" guys like me) do obey the rules of the road and get run over anyway. I have been hit or knocked down three times; in each case the driver was ticketed for failure to yield since that's exactly what they did.

Like I said, I don't do stupid stuff when riding because I want to minimize my odds of getting killed.

Edit- riding on sidewalks and grass is illegal. These people are also idiots. Conversely, the numerous people telling me to "get on the sidewalk" every day are also idiots.

 

[dxkj]

Originally posted by: isasir

Originally posted by: dxkj
My first thought was "Does fausto have an alibi?". The guy could have passed out after seeing a thong or something and hit his head on the road, and later changing his story.

You mean he changed his story after he died?

No. He lived for 4 months. Long enough to give a description of those who attacked him /bonk

Unless he was comatose for 4 months. I read it like he died of complications. Could go either way i guess..

 

[MacBaine]

9 times out of 10 the cyclist dies because the motorist was doing something stupid.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

 

[Shockwave]

Originally posted by: Fausto

Originally posted by: Shockwave

Originally posted by: Fausto

Originally posted by: Shockwave

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: Shockwave

Originally posted by: Don_Vito
This is unfortunate, but in all fairness I could probably point to ten stories in the last year of cyclists killed by careless or rage-aholic drivers, and it sounds like the driver may have provoked a conflict here. This does not excuse this killing by any means, of course, but it puts it in a context.

What context?! That cyclists should kill 1 driver a year as payback?!

No but if I was biking and some A-Hole stopped in traffic and came at me, I would defend myself.

Hey, I'm not saying driving over cyclists is ok, or bein an A-hile is ok by ANY stretch. But I wouldnt say it much puts it in context.
Need I link back to the thread stating just how piss poor cyclists are at observing road rules? I mean that in regards to the "putting it in context".
Yes, alot of cyclists get kiled. Yes, its unfortunate. But a hell of a lot of them bike a HELLUVA lot worse then the worst driver drives.

That is horseshit. 9 times out of 10 the cyclist dies because the motorist was doing something stupid. Yes, there are cyclists who ignore the rules of the road, but a lot of us actually obey them because the penalty for running a light might be...um...I dunno....death.

Pray tell how is it horseshit? Do or do not some cyclists bike like they own the road? And the sidewalks and grass too?

You said "a lot" of them and that their riding is "worse than the worst motorist", which is crap. Yes, some ride like they own the road. They are idiots, I will not debate that point. My point is that most of us (especially "serious" guys like me) do obey the rules of the road and get run over anyway. I have been hit or knocked down three times; in each case the driver was ticketed for failure to yield since that's exactly what they did.

Like I said, I don't do stupid stuff when riding because I want to minimize my odds of getting killed.

Edit- riding on sidewalks and grass is illegal. These people are also idiots. Conversely, the numerous people telling me to "get on the sidewalk" every day are also idiots.

I think we may have a hard time finding statistics on what percentage of cyclists ride like crap. Either way, even you can admit it does happen. Now, as to what percentage of bike/auto related deaths are due to the motorist versus due to the cyclist, that may be hard to find too.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: Shockwave

What context?! That cyclists should kill 1 motorist a year as payback?! Theres a buge difference between an accident and an attack. If I run over a cyclists (God forbid) because he swerved in front of me (And dont tell me all cyclists are perfect law abiding riders) and he dies, thats an accident. Unfortunate. Now, if I'm screaming and yelling at someone and turn around and whack them in the head and kill them, thats a WHOLE different story.

What part of "this does not excuse this killing by any means" do you not understand? The overwhelming majority of cyclists who die are completely innocent, and are plowed over by drunks, people talking on cell phones, or outright murderers. Again, this does not excuse this killing, but if the driver, who after all has nothing to fear from two guys on bikes, elects to a) honk at them, then b) stop and engage them in a fight, he is undertaking a certain level of risk, no?

The fact of the matter is that nearly all states outlaw riding on the sidewalks, and bike paths are uncommon most places. Cyclists have the same rights to use the road as do drivers, and, unlike drivers, seldom endanger anyone but themselves. Boo hoo for the poor, poor drivers of the world . . .

 

[Fausto]

Originally posted by: Shockwave

Originally posted by: Fausto

Originally posted by: Shockwave

Originally posted by: Fausto

Originally posted by: Shockwave

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: Shockwave

Originally posted by: Don_Vito
This is unfortunate, but in all fairness I could probably point to ten stories in the last year of cyclists killed by careless or rage-aholic drivers, and it sounds like the driver may have provoked a conflict here. This does not excuse this killing by any means, of course, but it puts it in a context.

What context?! That cyclists should kill 1 driver a year as payback?!

No but if I was biking and some A-Hole stopped in traffic and came at me, I would defend myself.

Hey, I'm not saying driving over cyclists is ok, or bein an A-hile is ok by ANY stretch. But I wouldnt say it much puts it in context.
Need I link back to the thread stating just how piss poor cyclists are at observing road rules? I mean that in regards to the "putting it in context".
Yes, alot of cyclists get kiled. Yes, its unfortunate. But a hell of a lot of them bike a HELLUVA lot worse then the worst driver drives.

That is horseshit. 9 times out of 10 the cyclist dies because the motorist was doing something stupid. Yes, there are cyclists who ignore the rules of the road, but a lot of us actually obey them because the penalty for running a light might be...um...I dunno....death.

Pray tell how is it horseshit? Do or do not some cyclists bike like they own the road? And the sidewalks and grass too?

You said "a lot" of them and that their riding is "worse than the worst motorist", which is crap. Yes, some ride like they own the road. They are idiots, I will not debate that point. My point is that most of us (especially "serious" guys like me) do obey the rules of the road and get run over anyway. I have been hit or knocked down three times; in each case the driver was ticketed for failure to yield since that's exactly what they did.

Like I said, I don't do stupid stuff when riding because I want to minimize my odds of getting killed.

Edit- riding on sidewalks and grass is illegal. These people are also idiots. Conversely, the numerous people telling me to "get on the sidewalk" every day are also idiots.

I think we may have a hard time finding statistics on what percentage of cyclists ride like crap. Either way, even you can admit it does happen. Now, as to what percentage of bike/auto related deaths are due to the motorist versus due to the cyclist, that may be hard to find too.

Seems to be about 60% of the time, actually.

A whole pile of factoids for you.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Fausto

Originally posted by: dxkj
My first thought was "Does fausto have an alibi?". The guy could have passed out after seeing a thong or something and hit his head on the road, and later changing his story.

I usually give anyone who honks at me a really enthusiastic wave as if I thought they were trying to say "Hi there!! Howya doing!". Drives them crazy since they're like "NOOOO!! I'm yelling at you with my horn, dammit!!"

That's the best way to deal with it.

ZV

 

[JulesMaximus]

But a hell of a lot of them bike a HELLUVA lot worse then the worst driver drives.

Yeah but when a bicyclist rides wrecklessly he endangers mainly himself and not anyone else. Idiots in cars do far more damage.

I would have defended myself also if some nut job came after me. What could they have possibly hit him with? A bike pump? Sounds like self defense to me. Hell, I've hit dogs with a bike pump to keep from being attacked and even sprayed grapefruit juice in their eyes. I'd shoot a dog before letting it bite me. I wouldn't call this murder that's for sure. If the dumb fvck didn't get out of his vehicle he'd still be alive.

I had some idiot honking at me one time to get out of his way while I was waiting at a red light in the bike lane. Idiot was trying to turn right. I made him wait. Fvcktard. If he got out of his car I probably would have hit him with my bike pump.

 

[Shockwave]

:Q
Very impressive Fausto!!

Motorist at Fault

Crash Type Frequency
Motorist turn/merge into cyclist's path 34%
Motorist driving out from a stop sign 16%
Motorist exiting driveway/alley 10%


Adult Cyclist at Fault

Crash Type Frequency
Cyclist turn/merge into motorist path 6%
Cyclist overtaking motorist 6%
Cyclist rideout at traffic signal 5%

I'd say the first auto one is definately going to be the motorists fault 90% of the time. The other two have extenuating circumstances which would make flat out saying "motorists fault!" difficult. Hell, I've been to blind corners seeing a CAR is damned hard enough, make it a small bike and you'll NEVER see it till it goes by or you hit it.
Regardless, it does appear the greatest single cause to cyclist accident is dumbasses not paying attention behind the wheel.

Maybe if we all drove highly lifted trucks it wouldnt be a problem. The cyclists could just ride right under us and everyone would be happy

 

[Pepsi90919]

I wish my last name was coffee

 

[Fausto]

Originally posted by: Shockwave
:Q
Very impressive Fausto!!

Motorist at Fault

Crash Type Frequency
Motorist turn/merge into cyclist's path 34%
Motorist driving out from a stop sign 16%
Motorist exiting driveway/alley 10%


Adult Cyclist at Fault

Crash Type Frequency
Cyclist turn/merge into motorist path 6%
Cyclist overtaking motorist 6%
Cyclist rideout at traffic signal 5%

I'd say the first auto one is definately going to be the motorists fault 90% of the time. The other two have extenuating circumstances which would make flat out saying "motorists fault!" difficult. Hell, I've been to blind corners seeing a CAR is damned hard enough, make it a small bike and you'll NEVER see it till it goes by or you hit it.
Regardless, it does appear the greatest single cause to cyclist accident is dumbasses not paying attention behind the wheel.

First one is definitely the most common. I can attest to this personally from being hit and seeing incidents happen in front of me. People either don't see you or don't realize that bike can hit 30+ mph (or even more down a hill) so their timing making turns sucks. As for the other stuff, that's the DOTs fault, but you're still going to get a ticket.

Maybe if we all drove highly lifted trucks it wouldnt be a problem. The cyclists could just ride right under us and everyone would be happy

Actually (and I know I sound like a broken record) more bike lanes and off-road bike paths like the ones in Denver/Boulder are the real solution. Then everyone has a space on the road and everyone's happy.