Man is Africa screwed up! Yeah this isn't an original observation.

[Locut0s]

Nothing original or new to see here. I've just been reading up on numerous African countries as part of my hobby to learn all the countries and capitals. Yes I knew before hand how screwed up Africa was but it really does bring things into sharper focus when you read up on the specifics. After the colonial powers pulled out right around 1960 everything started to go to hell. Actually it was a time of great hope for the future but when the colonial powers pulled out there was no transition plan put in place in any of these countries. Many of these countries had been ruled from overseas anyway and when the colonial powers pulled out there was this sudden HUGE power vacuum. This vacuum was filled by all kinds of hippie communist/Marxist ideologues who quickly became military regimes and then were overthrown by more and more military regimes. Every country seems to have been ruled by one crazy murdering dictator after another from 1960 through about 1990ish when things started to get a little more stable in most countries. Course 800,000+ people were killed in civil unrest in Rewanda. Then throw in famine after famine in which millions starved. Causing further unrest war and mass migrations. Then you have HIV rates close to 30% in some countries to say nothing of malaria, yellow fever, and on and on and on. Contaminated drinking water and food. Zimbabwe's inflation clocked in at several trillion percent at one point a few year ago:

There are signs of hope in some countries but it's really unbelievable how many seemingly insurmountable obstacles are facing these countries.

!!!!!PLEASE PLEASE lets not have this turn into a race thread!!!!!

 

[RoloMather]

Africa is just a crappy place. I don't know why it is like that. Other countries went through as much crap as African countries did. Yet those other countries came out much better.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

I have one of those, paid $5 for it as a conversation piece. It's worth 27 cents on the exchange market.

The only inflation worse than Zimbabwe's was Hungary in 1946.

Zimbabwe's problems stemmed largely from the "redistribution" which basically took land from white farmers and gave it to black people and basically chased the whites out of the country. The reasoning for this was the "2% of the population owns 70% of the land." argument. Regardless of if you think this was a good idea from a sociological perspective this action took Zimbabwe from a country that was a major exporter of food and turned it into one that had a food shortage. Most of the farms that were redistributed were never maintained or reopened.

South Africa took a hit as well as elections were won based on race and not ability following the end of apartheid.

Sierra Leone has a government that can't effectively defend itself from the RUF which is well known for the atrocities it has performed as well as using slave labor to mine diamonds, which funds it's actions. Previously they hired a PMC which worked. However a UN resolution agreeing not to use PMCs caused them to end that.

 

[jonks]

yes, they gots problems

 

[crispytreat]

Africa is a giant continent. I don't think "crappy" describes the entire place. There are good and bad places; just like everywhere else.

 

[Barfo]

Africa:

 

[Colt45]

other places have had hyperinflation, it happens.

But yeah, africa is hopelessly screwed.

 

[SunSamurai]

Take Detroit.

Destroy most of the buildings or make them all 50 years older.

Fuck up the economy and general happiness. (even more)

Make it a country.

Add natives.

Thats Africa.

 

[Platypus]

Add Uganda as one of the more fucked up places thanks to 'The Family'

 

[foghorn67]

Add Uganda as one of the more fucked up places thanks to 'The Family'

Elaborate? Something is flying over my head right now, sounds like a *woosh.

 

[Platypus]

Elaborate? Something is flying over my head right now, sounds like a *woosh.

From NPR recently:

GROSS: This is FRESH AIR. I'm Terry Gross. Let's get back to our interview with Jeff Sharlet, the author of the bestseller "The Family," about the secretive fundamentalist group that promotes its anti-abortion, anti-gay, pro-free market ideas with the help of several Congressman and Senators who are connected to the group, including John Ensign, Bart Stupak, Joe Pitts, James Inhofe, Tom Coburn, Charles Grassley and Zach Wamp. The Family is active in America and around the world. Let's talk about The Family's connection to Uganda, where there's, really, a draconian anti-gay bill that has been introduced into parliament. Uganda already punishes the practice of homosexuality with life in prison. What would the new legislation do?
Mr. SHARLET: Well, the new legislation adds to this something called aggravated homosexuality. And this can include, for instance, if a gay man has sex with another man who is disabled, that's aggravated homosexuality, and that man can be - I suppose both, actually, could be put to death for this. The use of any drugs or any intoxicants in seeking gay sex - in other words, you go to a bar and you buy a guy a drink, you're subject to the death penalty if you go home and sleep together after that. What it also does is it extends this outward, so that if you know a gay person and you don't report it, that could mean - you don't report your son or daughter, you can go to prison.
And it goes further, to say that any kind of promotion of these ideas of homosexuality, including by foreigners, can result in prison terms. Talking about same sex-marriage positively can lead you to imprisonment for life. And it's really kind of a perfect case study and the export of a lot of American largely evangelical ideas about homosexuality exported to Uganda, which then takes them to their logical end.
-----------

Basically a group of rich white fundamentalist Christians from the US could never get something so fucked up and vile passed here so they take their crusade to places that will allow such travesties. They also got the current leader elected into power there.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

Elaborate? Something is flying over my head right now, sounds like a *woosh.

Conflict in the northern parts of the country continues to generate reports of abuses by both the rebel Lord's Resistance Army and the Ugandan army. A UN official blamed the LRA in February 2009 of "appalling brutality" in the Democratic Republic of Congo.[35] The number of internally displaced persons is estimated at 1.4 million. Torture continues to be a widespread practice amongst security organizations. Attacks on political freedom in the country, including the arrest and beating of opposition Members of Parliament, has led to international criticism, culminating in May 2005 in a decision by the British government to withhold part of its aid to the country. The arrest of the main opposition leader Kizza Besigye and the besiegement of the High Court during a hearing of Besigye's case by a heavily armed security forces — before the February 2006 elections — led to condemnation.[

--from Wikipedia

 

[foghorn67]

From NPR recently:

GROSS: This is FRESH AIR. I'm Terry Gross. Let's get back to our interview with Jeff Sharlet, the author of the bestseller "The Family," about the secretive fundamentalist group that promotes its anti-abortion, anti-gay, pro-free market ideas with the help of several Congressman and Senators who are connected to the group, including John Ensign, Bart Stupak, Joe Pitts, James Inhofe, Tom Coburn, Charles Grassley and Zach Wamp. The Family is active in America and around the world. Let's talk about The Family's connection to Uganda, where there's, really, a draconian anti-gay bill that has been introduced into parliament. Uganda already punishes the practice of homosexuality with life in prison. What would the new legislation do?
Mr. SHARLET: Well, the new legislation adds to this something called aggravated homosexuality. And this can include, for instance, if a gay man has sex with another man who is disabled, that's aggravated homosexuality, and that man can be - I suppose both, actually, could be put to death for this. The use of any drugs or any intoxicants in seeking gay sex - in other words, you go to a bar and you buy a guy a drink, you're subject to the death penalty if you go home and sleep together after that. What it also does is it extends this outward, so that if you know a gay person and you don't report it, that could mean - you don't report your son or daughter, you can go to prison.
And it goes further, to say that any kind of promotion of these ideas of homosexuality, including by foreigners, can result in prison terms. Talking about same sex-marriage positively can lead you to imprisonment for life. And it's really kind of a perfect case study and the export of a lot of American largely evangelical ideas about homosexuality exported to Uganda, which then takes them to their logical end.
-----------

Basically a group of rich white fundamentalist Christians from the US could never get something so fucked up and vile passed here so they take their crusade to places that will allow such travesties. They also got the current leader elected into power there.

ah, thank you.

 

[Platypus]

Here's the rest of the interview if you're interested
http://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?storyId=120746516

 

[Locut0s]

other places have had hyperinflation, it happens.

But yeah, africa is hopelessly screwed.

In Dec 08 According to Forbes Asia it reached 6.5 × 10^108% !!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zimbabwean_dollar

 

[JS80]

You reap what you sow for rejecting western imperialism.

 

[Locut0s]

You reap what you sow for rejecting western imperialism.

By and large they were rejecting generations of racism and oppression. What happened after had many reasons, not least of which was that when the imperials moved out they dropped their former "slaves" like a tone of lead bricks and there was no way to transition to anything sensible.

You don't repress a people of generations removing most of their former culture while imposing your own but treating them like slaves then when you leave just say OK here are the reigns to the country. BUY!

 

[zinfamous]

oooo, thanks for the pic. I've heard of the zimbabwayan 1 trillion note, just haven't seen it. lol.

and yes, I think the only way to save certain parts of Africa is through orbital nuke.

 

[zinfamous]

You reap what you sow for rejecting western imperialism.

WoW! what an amazingly simple and completely astute observation that explains the many problems of Africa!

The fact is that large portions of Africa simply don't have the climate, flora and fauna to properly support a western model for civilization. Western agriculture can't be maintained in the equatorial regions which strangely enough, are not similar to most other equatorial regions.

Much of what is currently fucked about Africa is the forced adoption of western civilization: centralizing populations into large, River-supported cities (previous, most communities lived several miles from water sources. This made water collection difficult and taxing, but it also controlled the spread of Malaria--so the European solution was, and remains, far more devastating to African society, despite its seemingly more efficient approach).

Many of the on-going tribal wars represent cultural divisions that did not exist before colonialism. Especially with the Belgians and the Dutch, who divided groups into represented and unrepresented classes, then left them to fend for themselves (putting the previously subjugated classes in charge, with no civil structure in place).

The vast mineral resources of Africa have only ever been harvested for western society (Historically, the companies that have owned these mines were and are western). Africa rarely sees a dime in this lucrative market.

Western Imperialism is the problem in Africa, not the solution. This is all elementary.

 

[Locut0s]

WoW! what an amazingly simple and completely astute observation that explains the many problems of Africa!

The fact is that large portions of Africa simply don't have the climate, flora and fauna to properly support a western model for civilization. Western agriculture can't be maintained in the equatorial regions which strangely enough, are not similar to most other equatorial regions.

Much of what is currently fucked about Africa is the forced adoption of western civilization: centralizing populations into large, River-supported cities (previous, most communities lived several miles from water sources. This made water collection difficult and taxing, but it also controlled the spread of Malaria--so the European solution was, and remains, far more devastating to African society, despite its seemingly more efficient approach).

Many of the on-going tribal wars represent cultural divisions that did not exist before colonialism. Especially with the Belgians and the Dutch, who divided groups into represented and unrepresented classes, then left them to fend for themselves (putting the previously subjugated classes in charge, with no civil structure in place).

The vast mineral resources of Africa have only ever been harvested for western society (Historically, the companies that have owned these mines were and are western). Africa rarely sees a dime in this lucrative market.

Western Imperialism is the problem in Africa, not the solution. This is all elementary.

All this :thumbsup: and as I said the entire continent was dropped like a sack of potatoes at around about the same time. Right around 1960 Most of the countries went from oppressive colonial rule to ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, BOOM overnight.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

oooo, thanks for the pic. I've heard of the zimbabwayan 1 trillion note, just haven't seen it. lol.

and yes, I think the only way to save certain parts of Africa is through orbital nuke.

$2.45 shipped now:
http://cgi.ebay.com/100-TRILLION-ZI...ZViewItemQQptZPaper_Money?hash=item20ae0c8e49

 

[Modelworks]

I have friends in Kenya who came here to get an education in medicine then returned home to help their families. There are a lot of good people there, my friends from there are the best anyone could ever have, totally selfless and true friends. That country is an example of when the upper class and the poor have extreme gaps between them.

 

[zinfamous]

Here's the rest of the interview if you're interested
http://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?storyId=120746516

Rick Warren announced yesterday that he "wishes to see this practice abolished."

Apparently, he's been on the fence for some time, maintaining a "no-comment" doctrine. You know, he didn't want to "offend" any of his parishioners by taking a stand on this in either direction.

It seems that many evangelicals (and the Catholic Church) has roundly condemned this law. He was the final one to step on board.

I'm not saying that any of these institutions are to be respected in this, but it's not like no one is listening. I believe it was also mentioned that this bill has been put on hiatus due to a variable shit storm brewing. But I didn't know anything about this Family until you mentioned it; I'd only heard about the proposed law...hmmm.

 

[Locut0s]

I have friends in Kenya who came here to get an education in medicine then returned home to help their families. There are a lot of good people there, my friends from there are the best anyone could ever have, totally selfless and true friends. That country is an example of when the upper class and the poor have extreme gaps between them.

Agree 100%. Which is why I stated at the bottom of the OP that I was worried about this becoming about race. Despite the horrors inflicted upon so many in Africa, by and large people are still amazingly kind and generous. The horrors of man kind can bring out the worst AND best in people.

 

[zinfamous]

$2.45 shipped now:
http://cgi.ebay.com/100-TRILLION-ZI...ZViewItemQQptZPaper_Money?hash=item20ae0c8e49

awesome.

Think I'll pick up a crate of those and flash around my bling. Then I'll get all da bitchez!