Man Earns $300,000 Public Pension

[Acanthus]

We could do it if we had a vibrant private economy pretty easy since it would only be a small percentage of that. At one time private industry employed 90% of our citizens. Today government 'employs' over 70%. e.g. 22 million govt employees, over 40 million families are now dependent on food stamps to eat....50 million dependent on social security...35 million on welfare......over 15 million on unemployment, etc.

Never before in history has so many people been dependent on government spending. It's half of GDP! As production collasped and debt defaults, government has been forced to take over control of 'production' via debt to maintain the functionality of their people they oversee. This is unsustainable. The employees are unsustainable. And SWHTF when we can't borrow no more.

22 million govt employees for ~330,000,000 people. So less than 1 employee per 10 Americans.

Wal*Mart employs more people than the federal government.

Offshoring is a massive systemic problem, Oligopolies are massive systemic problems, some government agencies need reform, aim where the root causes are.

Edit: typo corrected.

 

[Acanthus]

So your answer is to have the state go bankrupt so everyone is equally fucked out of unsustainable promises?

The answer is to draft legislation that restricts budgets to tax receipts.

If you want to spend that much, fine, raise revenue and pay the political price for doing so.

 

[Zebo]

nm

Only 1 in 10 is only unsustainable without a vibrant production based economy. What happens is what's happening. Massive teacher layoffs (like we need worse education) and pensions going busted.

 

[Zebo]

Oh and another thing a greater and greater percentage of private sector revenues and jobs come from government, with debt... such as WalMart in the form of buying shit with welfare, food stamps, unemployment checks, etc and this hurts us too because anyone with a brain knows if you keep getting loans it is inevitable that the interest will ultimately consume all of your budget! Ponzi scheme.

 

[GeezerMan]

You mean 95% factory workers? We sent all of those jobs overseas.

No, here is what I meant....

"I wonder what the average big city school superintendent made in 1940, adjusted for inflation? Back when U.S. public schools produced a good product."

 

[Darwin333]

The answer is to draft legislation that restricts budgets to tax receipts.

If you want to spend that much, fine, raise revenue and pay the political price for doing so.

History has shown that is not possible.

No matter how hard you try, math always wins.

 

[Carmen813]

Jesus titty christ me and Spidey agree!

 

[Acanthus]

No, here is what I meant....

"I wonder what the average big city school superintendent made in 1940, adjusted for inflation? Back when U.S. public schools produced a good product."

And the in context reply was for the bolded part.

95% factory workers and high dropout rates.

 

[Zebo]

Jesus titty christ me and Spidey agree!

Spidey is unprincipled. He never saw a government worker he liked until his wife became one. Most people are that's why we have mess we have.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Spidey is unprincipled. He never saw a government worker he liked until his wife became one. Most people are that's why we have mess we have.

I think the problem many of us have is the fact that government employment keeps growing and growing and growing. We have way too many bureaucrats and that will only continue to grow. And then, ironically, when we get into these uncertain times, the government employees that we *actually need* are the ones to get axed -- teachers, firemen, policemen, etc. rather than the school administrators or other managers. School administrators are notoriously overpaid and underperforming, which is why I was shocked when Spidey came out to support them in a few recent threads. Again, I understand his wife is one and he wants to support her, but if I were him, I'd just stay out of these threads. If these guys (school administrators) are so awesome, why does education in this country suck?

I personally don't have a problem with government workers. They're like us and are just trying to put food on the table. I do have a problem, however, with the government who hires them in such huge numbers and keeps adding more and more programs and therefore, more and more employees.

 

[Zebo]

I think the problem many of us have is the fact that government employment keeps growing and growing and growing. We have way too many bureaucrats and that will only continue to grow. And then, ironically, when we get into these uncertain times, the government employees that we *actually need* are the ones to get axed -- teachers, firemen, policemen, etc. rather than the school administrators or other managers. School administrators are notoriously overpaid and underperforming, which is why I was shocked when Spidey came out to support them in a few recent threads. Again, I understand his wife is one and he wants to support her, but if I were him, I'd just stay out of these threads. If these guys (school administrators) are so awesome, why does education in this country suck?

I personally don't have a problem with government workers. They're like us and are just trying to put food on the table. I do have a problem, however, with the government who hires them in such huge numbers and keeps adding more and more programs and therefore, more and more employees.

I don't have a problem with them either they perform a function we ask for.

What i do have a problem with is every other cop going out with 'back problems' and 100% disability at full pay for 50+ years

Extorting the politicians for more money or they fire the politicians through their union/donations.

Making 50% more according to WSJ than same work in RL

General non performance and too hard to fire compared to RL.

They are doomed. Anyone who can't see it needs to study Wiemar Republic hard. I hope they are buying Gold with their salaries.

 

[spidey07]

Blanghorst - why does education suck? Because federal and state guidelines prevent them from thinking outside the box. She really cares about the kids and sometimes she is downright frustrated she can't do the right thing. It's not those evil administrators failing the kids, their hands are tied in many instances.

Then there's the teachers union and inability to fire bad teachers. That's not a talking point, that's inside knowledge. There's this "new" idea to make pay raises merit based to encourage good teachers to do better. Wow, that's a shocking new way to think /sarcasm. Of course it's being fought and pushed back by guess who?

But off topic why really does education suck? Family environment. Middle class kids are encouraged to do better and supported by their mother AND father. Poor inner city kids are not and are actively encouraged to not give in to the man. Mix the two together and you get mediocre performance at best.

 

[daishi5]

22 million govt employees for ~330,000,000 people. So less than 1 employee per 10 Americans.

Wal*Mart employs more people than the federal government.

Offshoring is a massive systemic problem, Oligopolies are massive systemic problems, some government agencies need reform, aim where the root causes are.

Edit: typo corrected.

When you say 1 per 10, are you including all of the private employees of companies that provide services primarily to the government?

One of the biggest problems with government spending is how hard it is to curtail it. Every time the government looks to close a base, close a program, or something else, the people who are employed in that area protest because they are losing their jobs. Most of those people are not actually government employees, but employed by a trickle down effect of government spending. They may not actually be on the .gov payroll, but I think we ought to include those workers as being funded by taxes as well, and if we looked I bet we could find a lot of waste there as well.

 

[Hacp]

I REALLY REALLY care about the kids too, where is my 300k pension?

 

[Hacp]

I don't have a problem with them either they perform a function we ask for.

What i do have a problem with is every other cop going out with 'back problems' and 100% disability at full pay for 50+ years

Extorting the politicians for more money or they fire the politicians through their union/donations.

Making 50% more according to WSJ than same work in RL

General non performance and too hard to fire compared to RL.

They are doomed. Anyone who can't see it needs to study Wiemar Republic hard. I hope they are buying Gold with their salaries.

Thats not even a big deal. The big deal is the automatic raises they get each year, plus the raises unions manage to extort from politicians. Plus the pensions and early retirement. Finally, the inability to fire 1 cop making 100k so we can pick two up at 40k.

 

[spidey07]

I REALLY REALLY care about the kids too, where is my 300k pension?

I already posted the path one can take to make superintendent. Go out and get yours!

 

[GeezerMan]

And the in context reply was for the bolded part.

95% factory workers and high dropout rates.

Looks like I should have picked a more recent year. Seems to me we are spending more and more on public schools and getting less of a quality product.
I would like to see some of those factory jobs come back to the USA. I'm tired of crappy foreign made consumer goods. I can't get a can opener to last more than a year. Kids these days think tools from Harbor Freight are of good quality.

 

[Hacp]

Looks like I should have picked a more recent year. Seems to me we are spending more and more on public schools and getting less of a quality product.
I would like to see some of those factory jobs come back to the USA. I'm tired of crappy foreign made consumer goods. I can't get a can opener to last more than a year. Kids these days think tools from Harbor Freight are of good quality.

The reason we're spending more and getting less is because we spend so much on the stupid kids! We should focus our resources on the top 50%.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Blanghorst - why does education suck? Because federal and state guidelines prevent them from thinking outside the box. She really cares about the kids and sometimes she is downright frustrated she can't do the right thing. It's not those evil administrators failing the kids, their hands are tied in many instances.

So then why are these guys worth all this money then if they're basically just following a script handed to them by the state or feds?

Then there's the teachers union and inability to fire bad teachers. That's not a talking point, that's inside knowledge. There's this "new" idea to make pay raises merit based to encourage good teachers to do better. Wow, that's a shocking new way to think /sarcasm. Of course it's being fought and pushed back by guess who?

You'll get no argument from me on teacher accountability and the union protecting bad ones. Tenure is a bad, bad thing as well for anyone below the collegiate level.

But off topic why really does education suck? Family environment. Middle class kids are encouraged to do better and supported by their mother AND father. Poor inner city kids are not and are actively encouraged to not give in to the man. Mix the two together and you get mediocre performance at best.

Hey, you're the one claiming these guys are so amazingly smart and worth hundreds of thousands of MY tax dollars. Surely they can find ways to work around these issues and inspire these kids, right? (sarcasm)

In fact, I know that the major problem in education is exactly what you just said -- family environment. And I know that no one can fix these issues EXCEPT for the family themselves. That is the point I'm trying to make -- don't act like these guys are saviors or saints when in fact, they don't have that much control over the major issue and have made little headway in improving things.

The corporate CEO analogy is a bad argument. Companies make money (typically) and for billion dollar corporations, CEOs should make lots of money. Contrast this to a superintendent -- when was the last time a school corporation was a profit center that resulted in lower property taxes? These guys are getting paid with MY money and it has nothing to do with "jealousy" and EVERYTHING to do with accountability, general lack of results, and inflated salaries and pensions.

Furthermore, some of those superintendents seem to be making more than some governors and a good chunk of what the President makes. Are you SERIOUSLY saying that is right?

 

[MrEgo]

Don't most schools get state aid? Everyone is paying for this guy's overbloated pension. Less government, more freedom!

I work for a school district in Michigan. I don't believe the State pays for administrators' salaries. That money comes from the local taxes. The State does, however, give the school district approximately $6,000 - $7,000 per student.

I could be wrong about that, but I believe that's how it works. I suppose you could look at it in another way - that the money given by the State is put into the same budget as the local tax revenue, and the money is then partially distributed to a pool of overpaid administrators, which then takes away from the teachers and the student expenses.

Our Superintendent makes ~$141,000 per year. The school district covers 4 elementaries, 1 middle school, and 1 high school. The high school has about 1,400 students, and I believe there are somewhere around 3,750 students in the district. To me, that salary seems high. There are a lot of decision makers underneath the sup that handle the vast majority of the decisions. We're about 125 miles west of Detroit and 150 miles east of Chicago, so it's not like we're living in a price-inflated market.

 

[alphatarget1]

So then why are these guys worth all this money then if they're basically just following a script handed to them by the state or feds?



You'll get no argument from me on teacher accountability and the union protecting bad ones. Tenure is a bad, bad thing as well for anyone below the collegiate level.



Hey, you're the one claiming these guys are so amazingly smart and woth hundreds of thousands of MY tax dollars. Surely they can find ways to work around these issues and inspire these kids, right? (sarcasm)

In fact, I know that the major problem in education is exactly what you just said -- family environment. And I know that no one can fix these issues EXCEPT for the family themselves. That is the point I'm trying to make -- don't act like these guys are saviors or saints when in fact, they don't have that much control over the major issue and have made little headway in improving things.

The corporate CEO analogy is a bad argument. Companies make money (typically) and for billion dollar corporations, CEOs should make lots of money. Contrast this to a superintendent -- when was the last time a school corporation was a profit center that resulted in lower property taxes? These guys are getting paid with MY money and it has nothing to do with "jealousy" and EVERYTHING to do with accountability, general lack of results, and inflated salaries and pensions.

Furthermore, some of those superintendents seem to be making more than some governors and a good chunk of what the President makes. Are you SERIOUSLY saying that is right?

QFT. Fire all superintendents and rehire at more reasonable salaries. Schools are not going to fall apart overnight with those administrators gone. Sure there are people from outside who can bring in fresh ideas and will work much, much harder for a lucrative salary in this economy. Hell, maybe it's a good thing to get people who has actually produced something in the real world to inject some reality into public schools.

Spidey is supposed to be a conservative I thought. What a hypocrite.

 

[spidey07]

QFT. Fire all superintendents and rehire at more reasonable salaries. Schools are not going to fall apart with those administrators gone overnight. Sure there are people from outside who can bring in fresh ideas and will work much, much harder for their salary in this economy. Hell, maybe it's a good thing to get people who has actually produced something in the real world to inject some reality into public schools.

Spidey is supposed to be a conservative I thought. What a hypocrite.

I will always defend somebody getting paid what they are worth. You guys feel they are worth less, yet all school admins make pretty good money in every district across the country. So I believe they are indeed getting paid what they are worth. This isn't left vs. right, this is capitalism at work - the best people demand the best money. The reason why the numbers are so big in this case is because it's new york.

And government pensions have always been a very nice benefit, they don't pay into SS but do pay into their pension plans.

 

[alphatarget1]

The head football coach at my former university, Mack Brown, makes $5 million a year. Seems clear to me that universities should be paying their presidents MUCH more, and the same goes for the president, governors, etc. Unless football really is more important than running a university, state, or the federal government.

You know in Ancient Greece, politicians didn't get ANY salary. Sounds great right? Saves money?

Well what it does is make sure that ONLY the rich can hold political posts.

My understanding (at least for my school) is that the athletic program (football, basketball) either pays for itself through ticket sales, alumni donations, etc and requires very little subsidies from the school and what not... but I could be wrong.

But you are right. They spend WAYYY too much money on sports. The moneymakers (basketball, football) athletes aren't really in it for the scholarship, they want to go pro. NCAA is a scam.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

I will always defend somebody getting paid what they are worth. You guys feel they are worth less, yet all school admins make pretty good money in every district across the country. So I believe they are indeed getting paid what they are worth. This isn't left vs. right, this is capitalism at work - the best people demand the best money. The reason why the numbers are so big in this case is because it's new york.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want to fire them as another poster stated. I frankly don't even have a problem with them making good money; insane money, however, is a different matter. These guys should not be making money equivalent to a governor or senator.

I am also saying that the pension model is likely unsustainable and that better judgment needs to be used in the future when negotiating contracts.

And government pensions have always been a very nice benefit, they don't pay into SS but do pay into their pension plans.

Correct, and please don't get the impression that I am "picking" on these guys necessarily. There have been numerous examples of various government employees/positions with unbelievable and ridiculous pensions and we need to get that under control.

 

[alphatarget1]

I will always defend somebody getting paid what they are worth. You guys feel they are worth less, yet all school admins make pretty good money in every district across the country. So I believe they are indeed getting paid what they are worth. This isn't left vs. right, this is capitalism at work - the best people demand the best money. The reason why the numbers are so big in this case is because it's new york.

And government pensions have always been a very nice benefit, they don't pay into SS but do pay into their pension plans.

Maybe the Tea Party should go after these government bureaucrats then. Public education is not a free market (that you so truly believe in).

Are you scared of vouchers too? LOL.