Man Dies in Police Raid on Wrong House

[sao123]

Even though this incident is an old one, it's worth saying:

This death is completely attributable to the totally wrong-headed belief that it's necessary to "stand your ground" with guns. I don't care if it's a real home invasion or a case of mistaken identity, if a resident whose home is being "invaded" refuses to use a gun, it's very unlikely anyone would be killed. But this macho "stand your ground" attitude gets lots of people killed that shouldn't have been killed.

Absolute Bullshit.

Elimination of no-knock warrants would also have prevented this.
The police have no right to break your door down and storm your house, especially i nthe middle of the night.
As long as this abusive malpractise continues, I hope more innocent victims shoot at more cops until they revoke this atrocious policy.

 

[KK]

Also, do you prefer to live on your knees instead of dying on your feet?

no, shira was raped multiple times by his daddy so he's used to submission by now.

 

[unokitty]

Absolute Bullshit.

Elimination of no-knock warrants would also have prevented this.

++

For an interactive map of similar incidents go to:

Botched Paramilitary Police Raids

If your interested, you can download a 95 page white paper on the topic. From that white paper's abstract:

"The most common use of SWAT teams today is to serve narcotics warrants, usually with forced, unannounced entry into the home.

These increasingly frequent raids, 40,000 per year by one estimate, are needlessly subjecting nonviolent drug offenders, bystanders, and wrongly targeted civilians to the terror of having their homes invaded while they're sleeping, usually by teams of heavily armed paramilitary units dressed not as police officers but as soldiers. These raids bring unnecessary violence and provocation to nonviolent drug offenders, many of whom were guilty of only misdemeanors. The raids terrorize innocents when police mistakenly target the wrong residence. And they have resulted in dozens of needless deaths and injuries, not only of drug offenders, but also of police officers, children, bystanders, and innocent suspects. "
--Cato Institute

Uno

 

[ch33zw1z]

You mentioned standards in the post I originally responded to without providing more details. I asked you what exactly you wanted but got no response. You then went on to state that anyone involved in the man's death is responsible. Well, in theory, you are responsible since you elected the politicians that gave the LEOs the power to do what they do. That is my whole premise for being in this thread. You are the change you want to see in this world. If you feel something is wrong, change it.

You asked "what do you want" then went to to lecture me about voting. You don't want an answer. You want to tell people what we already know.

In your theory, everyone's responsible, which is false. I had nothing to do with TN's election process, collection of data, approval of the warrants (no knock or other), research and validation of the data collected, setting up of the raid, execution of the raid, etd...

You are trying to rationalize senseless killing of an innocent, law-abiding person. You can't. The LEO's and our government have a long track record of not asking our opinions before performing what you feel is "what we wanted". I don't recall voting yes for no knock warrants, do you? I don't recall voting yes for a continued senseless war on drugs, do you? I don't recall voting yes on using CI information without validation to conduct raids on the wrong house, do you?

And yes, I vote my mind. If you think that's the only thing that will change our nation, then you're a fool. Our government is owned, and not by us.

 

[Jhhnn]

What? Everything happened as it should've, given the circumstances. He died defending his home. That is how his family will remember this incident and that's a good memory. It sure beats other ways for old people to go.

Also, do you prefer to live on your knees instead of dying on your feet?

Gawd that's lame. Whether it was the cops or a semi-mythical "Home Invasion! OMFG!", the guy's chances of survival would have increased dramatically had he not chosen to go John Wayne, play the Hero.

It would have ended up with apologies all around & a nice fat settlement check down the road instead of a grotesque dead poster boy for all of the self defense gun delusionists in this country.

 

[OverVolt]

Gawd that's lame. Whether it was the cops or a semi-mythical "Home Invasion! OMFG!", the guy's chances of survival would have increased dramatically had he not chosen to go John Wayne, play the Hero.

It would have ended up with apologies all around & a nice fat settlement check down the road instead of a grotesque dead poster boy for all of the self defense gun delusionists in this country.

Thats great and all if you have time to think but no-knock warrants don't leave much time for that. You have a second, maybe less to decide if its an intruder or the police. As soon as I saw the police I would drop it, but is that fast enough?

I think the same has happened where a guy grabbed a golf club in a dazed stupor as the police burst in and shot him in 0.5 seconds.

*NSFW*
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmeUrlcssEg
*NSFW*

The video really puts it into perspective. *muffled police yelling, mostly inaudible to him, dead of night*

*guy grabs golf club*

*dead*

:/

Its honestly NSFAnyone but ya know, if you're interested.

Who said it had to be a gun. The gun is totally irrelevant honestly. Technically speaking holding any bludgeoning weapon = justified. Of course it was more of a *pow pow pow* THEN the order to get on the ground after the fact.

 

[Nebor]

And then again, he may not have been. According to the NFA:


So there's NOTHING illegal with buying a shotgun with, say, a 26" barrel, then cutting that barrel down to 18.5", so long as the overall length of the shotgun doesn't go below the legal length of 26".

Since the police only identified it as a "sawed off shotgun", without saying whether it was legal or not, you're doing nothing more than assuming it was illegal. :hmm:

That's why I said, "likely." I'm very familiar with the NFA and most of it's current interpretations.

 

[Nebor]

Thats great and all if you have time to think but no-knock warrants don't leave much time for that. You have a second, maybe less to decide if its an intruder or the police. As soon as I saw the police I would drop it, but is that fast enough?

I think the same has happened where a guy grabbed a golf club in a dazed stupor as the police burst in and shot him in 0.5 seconds.

*NSFW*
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmeUrlcssEg
*NSFW*

The video really puts it into perspective. *muffled police yelling, mostly inaudible to him, dead of night*

*guy grabs golf club*

*dead*

:/

Its honestly NSFAnyone but ya know, if you're interested.

Who said it had to be a gun. The gun is totally irrelevant honestly. Technically speaking holding any bludgeoning weapon = justified. Of course it was more of a *pow pow pow* get on the ground after-the-fact.

That's why my bedside gun has been a 10" PS90 loaded with 50 AP rounds since it first became available. No matter who you are, whether you're wearing body armor or not, you're going down or out of my house, and we can discuss the details after things have settled down.

It's also worth noting that some states (Texas for certain) have laws which allow the use of force up to and including deadly force against a law enforcement officer in order to protect one's self from the use of excessive force.

 

[Dari]

You asked "what do you want" then went to to lecture me about voting. You don't want an answer. You want to tell people what we already know.

In your theory, everyone's responsible, which is false. I had nothing to do with TN's election process, collection of data, approval of the warrants (no knock or other), research and validation of the data collected, setting up of the raid, execution of the raid, etd...

You are trying to rationalize senseless killing of an innocent, law-abiding person. You can't. The LEO's and our government have a long track record of not asking our opinions before performing what you feel is "what we wanted". I don't recall voting yes for no knock warrants, do you? I don't recall voting yes for a continued senseless war on drugs, do you? I don't recall voting yes on using CI information without validation to conduct raids on the wrong house, do you?

And yes, I vote my mind. If you think that's the only thing that will change our nation, then you're a fool. Our government is owned, and not by us.

Sounds like you've given up. Then, to me, you have nothing else to say...

 

[Tom]

I saw the report and posted it. Only later did it come to light that it was old. But again that doesn't make what the cops did right. Would you like me to find a more recent story? You know they are out there you just want to make light of me. I expect that from you though.

On the other hand if its been 13 years this doesn't happen very often, does it ?

btw, this wasn't all the cop's fault. Part of the responsibilty of being a cirizen is to resolve problems using the judicial system, not getting all belligerent and threatening cops doing their job.

 

[OverVolt]

On the other hand if its been 13 years this doesn't happen very often, does it ?

btw, this wasn't all the cop's fault. Part of the responsibilty of being a cirizen is to resolve problems using the judicial system, not getting all belligerent and threatening cops doing their job.

See vid. :/

Now you have to worry about no-knock warrants!

Thats how it happens.... *dazed stupor* *grabs something* *dead* in 3-5 seconds. The more no-knock warrants they do the more mistakes they are going to make since its a rather mistake-prone situation.

As said people breaking in for real could easily just yell "police search warrant" without even being police and bust in. Its tricky.

I'm OK with no-knock warrants for some kind of high profile drug seller den known to be violent, gang leaders, whatever. They have to be used with utmost care because things can go wrong. "Ooops wrong house its the other one" isn't really due diligence IMO.

 

[nextJin]

Gawd that's lame. Whether it was the cops or a semi-mythical "Home Invasion! OMFG!", the guy's chances of survival would have increased dramatically had he not chosen to go John Wayne, play the Hero.

It would have ended up with apologies all around & a nice fat settlement check down the road instead of a grotesque dead poster boy for all of the self defense gun delusionists in this country.

I'm sure the guy who watched his two daughters get gang raped then burned alive and then see his wife get gang raped and killed thought the same way.

He was a liberal and has probably forgotten about that night by now. The mere thought of a gun for self defense still just disgusts him even today.

 

[TechBoyJK]

Was the Internet even invented when this story happened?

 

[TechBoyJK]

Even though this incident is an old one, it's worth saying:

This death is completely attributable to the totally wrong-headed belief that it's necessary to "stand your ground" with guns. I don't care if it's a real home invasion or a case of mistaken identity, if a resident whose home is being "invaded" refuses to use a gun, it's very unlikely anyone would be killed. But this macho "stand your ground" attitude gets lots of people killed that shouldn't have been killed.

Wuuuuuuut?

It'd would have been quicker to just type "be a bitch, bend over and take it up the ass!"

 

[waggy]

I'm sure the guy who watched his two daughters get gang raped then burned alive and then see his wife get gang raped and killed thought the same way.

He was a liberal and has probably forgotten about that night by now. The mere thought of a gun for self defense still just disgusts him even today.

exactly.

i for one don't want to take the risk of them just wanting my TV

 

[Tom]

See vid. :/

Now you have to worry about no-knock warrants!

Thats how it happens.... *dazed stupor* *grabs something* *dead* in 3-5 seconds. The more no-knock warrants they do the more mistakes they are going to make since its a rather mistake-prone situation.

As said people breaking in for real could easily just yell "police search warrant" without even being police and bust in. Its tricky.

I'm OK with no-knock warrants for some kind of high profile drug seller den known to be violent, gang leaders, whatever. They have to be used with utmost care because things can go wrong. "Ooops wrong house its the other one" isn't really due diligence IMO.

I'm not interested in a youtube video. If there's an news article about whatever the video is let me know.

Otherwise its irrelevant.

 

[BoberFett]

Gawd that's lame. Whether it was the cops or a semi-mythical "Home Invasion! OMFG!", the guy's chances of survival would have increased dramatically had he not chosen to go John Wayne, play the Hero.

It would have ended up with apologies all around & a nice fat settlement check down the road instead of a grotesque dead poster boy for all of the self defense gun delusionists in this country.

Democrats: Always ready to slurp government cock.

When did the left turn from the protesting, anti-government hippie types into the establishment knob-gobblers they are today?

 

[ch33zw1z]

Sounds like you've given up. Then, to me, you have nothing else to say...

You haven't said anything to begin with. I vote, doesn't mean it will change anything.

 

[Venix]

On the other hand if its been 13 years this doesn't happen very often, does it ?

What? "Someone was murdered 13 years ago. Therefore, murders don't happen very often."

In fact, wrong door paramilitary raids are such a common occurrence that some departments have entire units dedicated to cleaning up after them.

btw, this wasn't all the cop's fault. Part of the responsibilty of being a cirizen is to resolve problems using the judicial system, not getting all belligerent and threatening cops doing their job.

He didn't know they were police, obviously. The fault is entirely on the police for illegally entering the home without a warrant and without sufficient notice at 10 PM. It's no surprise that innocent homeowners would mistake cops for criminals when they use exactly the same violent thuggish tactics.

 

[BoberFett]

I'm surprised more criminals don't start wearing phony police gear and breaking down doors. It seems to be a fairly safe tactic, when people like jhhhnhnhnhn and Tom will get down on their knees and open wide during a break-in.

 

[OverVolt]

I'm not interested in a youtube video. If there's an news article about whatever the video is let me know.

Otherwise its irrelevant.

Its from a news article anyway.

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/home/50932722-76/blair-burnett-officers-police.html.csp

 

[Yreka]

easy fix.. Every time a LEO gets sued for negligence, the money comes out of their pension fund.

Case in point, the dipshits in LA that shot up a Blue Toyota Tacoma with 2 50 yr old+ Mexican women while looking for a Grey Nissan Titan with one black man in his 30's( dorner)..

Settlement = 4 mil of taxpayer money while the cops who shot up the truck got paid desk duty.

 

[Jhhnn]

Democrats: Always ready to slurp government cock.

When did the left turn from the protesting, anti-government hippie types into the establishment knob-gobblers they are today?

Heh. When reason fails to justify what you already believe, just resort to name calling absurdity.

Let's play out the scenarios.

If it's the cops at the wrong house & you grab your gun, you'll get shot, probably fatally. If you play it cool, you win.

If it's a home invasion & you grab your gun, you'll most likely get shot, given that they already have their guns out. If you play it cool, your chances of survival can't go anywhere but up.

Anybody who hasn't figured out that discretion is the better part of valor has the mind of a child. Armed self defense is only sometimes a good answer, no matter how many Westerns you've watched... and no matter how desperately you want it to be.

 

[BoberFett]

Jhhmhmhmhmmnnnn, always sure he's right, no matter how wrong he is.

In recent shooting massacres, what has been a shared quality of all the victims: They were unarmed.

Your laughable assertion that people who are unarmed are more likely to escape harm has no basis in fact. It's just more of your phallus-swallowing Democrat dreams.

 

[KK]

Thats great and all if you have time to think but no-knock warrants don't leave much time for that. You have a second, maybe less to decide if its an intruder or the police. As soon as I saw the police I would drop it, but is that fast enough?

I think the same has happened where a guy grabbed a golf club in a dazed stupor as the police burst in and shot him in 0.5 seconds.

*NSFW*
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmeUrlcssEg
*NSFW*

The video really puts it into perspective. *muffled police yelling, mostly inaudible to him, dead of night*

*guy grabs golf club*

*dead*

:/

Its honestly NSFAnyone but ya know, if you're interested.

Who said it had to be a gun. The gun is totally irrelevant honestly. Technically speaking holding any bludgeoning weapon = justified. Of course it was more of a *pow pow pow* THEN the order to get on the ground after the fact.

Those cops should be executed, that was totally unnecessary.