man dies after NYPD cop puts him in chokehold

[theeedude]

Wrong again. You really should watch the video.

Fern

I watched it, the victim his hands out and didn't hit or lay a hand on any of his killers. Even as they were assaulting him, including the thug who choked him. Then he was trying to support himself on the ground.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhqHEgIgSGU#t=77

That's inconvenient for you police-statists. Because if he so much as touched a cop, you'd jump at the bit to blame him for resisting. But he made it a point of not resisting, and they killed him just the same.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

No, we do NOT frickin go to trial to "find out what happened".

The law is quite clear, there must be probable cause that a crime was committed in order to indict. The grand jury found no probable cause of a crime and based on that gave a "No Bill" decision.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally Posted by Fern
I don't see how criminally negligent homicide would apply.



Read more: http://criminal-law.freeadvice.com/c...#ixzz3L3tPpRRb

Police couldn't have known of his poor health etc.

Right or wrong, thousands of people across the US (and other countries) get taken down like this and don't die of cardiac arrest (or anything else).

Fern

The chokehold he used was not accepted practice, so he was negligent in his actions.
It's on the fucking video. He elbow wrapped him around the neck. The victim was stating he was having difficulty breathing.
How in the fuck are you able to justify these shit-heeled cops actions?

He's an insane Police Brutality supporter.

He's as Anti-American as you could get and just ignore his kind.

People are starting to rise up against this ilk.

History will show him to be on the wrong side of history.

 

[Jaskalas]

I watched it, the victim his hands out and didn't hit or lay a hand on any of his killers. Even as they were assaulting him, including the thug who choked him. Then he was trying to support himself on the ground.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhqHEgIgSGU#t=77

That's inconvenient for you police-statists. Because if he so much as touched a cop, you'd jump at the bit to blame him for resisting. But he made it a point of not resisting, and they killed him just the same.

I agree with you...
but some distinctions should be made.

Yeah, he didn't "lay a hand on them" but he was quite agitated and defensive. They likely view that as resisting. Instead of offering himself for arrest he trying to argue... so they take him down. If he dies from the take down they blame... him.

I got a problem with blaming the victim.

 

[theeedude]

I agree with you...
but some distinctions should be made.

Yeah, he didn't "lay a hand on them" but he was quite agitated and defensive. They likely view that as resisting. Instead of offering himself for arrest he trying to argue... so they take him down. If he dies from the take down they blame... him.

I got a problem with blaming the victim.

He was agitated when they killed him? How dare he.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Nobody's blaming the victim however, by resisting arrest the physical exertion from being taken into custody along with health issues (asthma and weak heart) resulted in heart failure after the fact.

As I said, if a person suffers a heart attack an hour after shoveling snow was the shoveling snow the reason the person had a heart attack or a contributing factor along with health issues that resulted in person having a heart attack?

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

Let's assume for a moment that the grand jury was right to determine that no indictable crime occurred.

I believe it's public knowledge that NYPD has a policy against the chokehold used. This policy was not followed by the officer. This means that the officer's failure to follow established policy resulted in death, even if no indictable crime occurred. Thus, why is the officer still employed? (Assuming he is, I've not been able to find a specific statement otherwise).

If the police will not terminate an officer for failing to follow policy leading to death, why should any business in the entire country be allowed to terminate employees for not following safety procedure?

For example, in some states I believe it's still legal to drive while talking on your cellphone. However, some businesses have company policy requiring that you do not talk on the phone while driving company cars. Employees who violate this policy can be terminated, because distracted driving can kill. If businesses are expected to perform risk management functions like that (remove employees who can't follow safety procedure), why should an organization whose very duty deals directly with life or death matters not remove employees that don't follow policy?

Note: I see a lot of people blaming the victim for resisting, and sure enough, resisting is unwise. However, I believe it is recognized that resisting arrest is not a capital crime and that a person in that position should not be treated as if they had voluntarily forfeited their life. Again, the policy against chokeholds is part of that recognition.

 

[theeedude]

Nobody's blaming the victim however, by resisting arrest the physical exertion from being taken into custody along with health issues (asthma and weak heart) resulted in heart failure after the fact.

As I said, if a person suffers a heart attack an hour after shoveling snow was the shoveling snow the reason the person had a heart attack or a contributing factor along with health issues that resulted in person having a heart attack?

There was no resisting arrest though. Just a takedown killing. Death was ruled a homicide by the coroner. Not "after the fact" anything, a homicide. Meaning a killing by another person.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

There was no resisting arrest though. Just a takedown killing.

Was he argumentative or was he ready to come with the police freely? Based on the fact it was the later it would be considered resisting arrest. Did he die on the spot or later in the ambulance? Looks like you wrong on both and this is why the grand jury came to a "No Bill" decision

 

[Jaskalas]

He was agitated when they killed him? How dare he.

Before they touched him. He was argumentative, then defensive as they reached for him.

 

[theeedude]

Was he argumentative or was he ready to come with the police freely? Based on the fact it was the later it would be considered resisting arrest. Did he die on the spot or later in the ambulance? Looks like you wrong on both and this is why the grand jury came to a "No Bill" decision

Coroner ruled it a homicide. So he was killed by someone else. Do you see anyone else killing him aside from the cops? Was he shot by a sniper while they were choking him?
He didn't resist arrest, the killer cop jumped on him and started choking him. Even as he was being killed by those cops, he did not lay a hand on any of his killers, he simply repeated "I can't breathe," hoping there was some humanity still left in them.

 

[cyclohexane]

Can you not read the god damned post of mine you quoted?

No, we do NOT frickin go to trial to "find out what happened".

JFC people. We do an f'ing INVESTIGATION to find out what happened. We go to trial when the results of that investigation reveal we have person guilty of a crime and we are sure we can convict them. The GJ is the one that looks at the results of the investigation and makes that decision. In this case the GJ, based upon the results of the investigation, decided either there was no crime or, if there was, that conviction was not likely (less than 51% chance).

Fern

what investigation? The ones by the cops? Who consistently coverup their misconduct time and again?

You are too damn naive, or a cop.

 

[theeedude]

Before they touched him. He was argumentative, then defensive as they reached for him.

Oh noes, he was argumentative, let's choke him.

 

[BoberFett]

I don't see how criminally negligent homicide would apply.



Read more: http://criminal-law.freeadvice.com/criminal-law/violent_crimes/negligent-homicide.htm#ixzz3L3tPpRRb

Police couldn't have known of his poor health etc.

Right or wrong, thousands of people across the US (and other countries) get taken down like this and don't die of cardiac arrest (or anything else).

Fern

Some of us believe that police abuse needs to be treated as a felony. If it were, this case wouldn't be about criminal negligence, it would be a matter of the felony murder rule. Just because you're a cop doesn't give you a license to go around doing anything you want to anybody then when somebody dies, shrugging you shoulder and claiming it wasn't intentional. Chokeholds had already been disallowed by the department, and this cop went ahead and did it anway - against a guy that allegedly selling individual cigarettes. Oh the horror. Selling loose cigarettes.

If a cop beat the crap out of someone during an interrogation that died because of a heart condition, would that be OK because the cop didn't know? No, because cops aren't supposed to be beating people people up when they're in custody. Nor was this cop supposed to put someone in a chokehold, especially for something so petty.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Coroner ruled it a homicide. So he was killed by someone else. Do you see anyone else killing him aside from the cops? Was he shot by a sniper while they were choking him?
He didn't resist arrest, the killer cop jumped on him and started choking him. Even as he was being killed by those cops, he did not lay a hand on any of his killers, he simply repeated "I can't breathe," hoping there was some humanity still left in them.

Yes, the ME ruled it a homicide as someone died. Even deaths due to self defense are considered a homicide (ie justified homicide). He also stated that health (asthma and weak heart) was a contributing factor in his death as well.

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/loca...en-Island-Chokehold-Death-NYPD-284595921.html

The medical examiner ruled Garner's death a homicide caused in part by the chokehold. The father of three's health issues, including obesity, were listed as contributing factors in the autopsy report.

 

[theeedude]

Yes, the ME ruled it a homicide as someone died. Even deaths due to self defense are considered a homicide (ie justified homicide). He also stated that health (asthma and weak heart) was a contributing factor in his death as well.

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/loca...en-Island-Chokehold-Death-NYPD-284595921.html

Homicide as in someone died NOT OF NATURAL CAUSES. Is it really hard to grasp? Contributing factor is not same as cause of death.
Yes, someone with asthma and weak heart is easier to choke to death. But he was alive and well with his asthma and weak heart before the officer killed him.

 

[OrByte]

Nobody's blaming the victim however, by resisting arrest the physical exertion from being taken into custody along with health issues (asthma and weak heart) resulted in heart failure after the fact.

As I said, if a person suffers a heart attack an hour after shoveling snow was the shoveling snow the reason the person had a heart attack or a contributing factor along with health issues that resulted in person having a heart attack?

coroner found he died of a choke..

compressed neck
compressed chest (lungs)

not of a heart attack. Not from "physical exertion"

lol!!

 

[theeedude]

coroner found he died of a choke..

compressed neck
compressed chest (lungs)

not of a heart attack. Not from "physical exertion"

lol!!

See, you just don't get it.
There was no choke, and if there was, it didn't kill him, and if it killed him, it's because of his health, and if it's not because of his health, it's because he was resisting, and if he wasn't resisting, it was because he was argumentative.
Understood?

 

[OrByte]

See, you just don't get it.
There was no choke, and if there was, it didn't kill him, and if it killed him, it's because of his health, and if it's not because of his health, it's because he was resisting, and if he wasn't resisting, it was because he was argumentative.
Understood?

There was a choke...unless that cop hanging on the back of that man was simply....

.... counting the freckles on the back of the victims neck?

.... inspecting the victims scalp for...psoriasis?

.... a game of street leapfrog gone HORRIBLY wrong?

.... wanting to give the victim a haircut...with his teeth?

 

[GarfieldtheCat]

That cop in NYC that shot and killed an innocent man?

He didn't report it at first, after he shot and killed him, he didn't call for help, he texted his union rep. Man, that's just pathetic.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slat...iang_texted_union_before_requesting_help.html

In the critical moments after the Nov. 20 shooting, the cops’ commanding officer and an emergency operator — responding to a 911 call from a neighbor and knowing the duo was in the area — tried to reach them in vain, sources said.

Standard police procedure right? Start to CYA and let an innocent man bleed out? Yup, no problem with cops found here, just another isolated bad apple, cops are great, yada yada yada.

I guess to most of the posters here, this is a good kill too right? No probable cause, so no case? GJ will let him off? System works, high fives all around.

No video, so he will probably get off, or maybe have to go for extra weapons training or some other BS.

 

[Victorian Gray]

You haven't actually watched the video or you're lying.

The so-called choke hold was released before he ever complained of breathing difficulty.

Your claim that the officer continued to "choke the victim until he snuffed the life out of him" after he complained of breathing difficulty is the worst sort of inflammatory lie imaginable.

Jeebus people, watch the damned video.

Fern

Or, take the word of the medical examiner?

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

That cop in NYC that shot and killed an innocent man?

He didn't report it at first, after he shot and killed him, he didn't call for help, he texted his union rep. Man, that's just pathetic.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slat...iang_texted_union_before_requesting_help.html



Standard police procedure right? Start to CYA and let an innocent man bleed out? Yup, no problem with cops found here, just another isolated bad apple, cops are great, yada yada yada.

I guess to most of the posters here, this is a good kill too right? No probable cause, so no case? GJ will let him off? System works, high fives all around.

No video, so he will probably get off, or maybe have to go for extra weapons training or some other BS.

At the very least, even if no murder/manslaughter charges are appropriate, we need criminal incompetency and disrespect for human life laws. The consequence of these laws should be at the minimum, discharge from police employment and ban from police employment anywhere else.

Accidentally shooting someone in this case MIGHT fall under incompetence, but certainly texting your union rep before seeking help falls under disrespect for human life.

I realize it's tough to send a cop to prison when there might truly have been a fear for his life that led him to act as he did, but we nevertheless need to remove those that are not capable of competently doing their job and/or that do not respect human life.

 

[shady28]

The whole grand jury process was rigged. First they gave immunity to every accomplice for their testimony, even though there was video evidence making such immunity unnecessary, then they refused to charge the killer.

Prosecution of cops is always rigged.

Many excellent articles have recently been written pointing out the obvious.

Many DA's - the prosecutors - are elected primarily via backing of the Police unions.

Whether elected or not, they are totally dependent on the police to get the evidence they need to conduct successful prosecutions. They have massive conflicts of interest in prosecuting cops.

Best idea I have heard yet is to have a special prosecutor for each state, whose only function is to prosecute cops in that state. Not gonna happen I bet, it's too logical.

 

[Mai72]

How is rioting affecting business in NYC?

Are they losing money? I feel sad for those people since it's so close to Christmas.

 

[Victorian Gray]

How is rioting affecting business in NYC?

Are they losing money? I feel sad for those people since it's so close to Christmas.

What riots? Did you mean to say protests?