man dies after NYPD cop puts him in chokehold

[BoomerD]

I wonder if the jury was afraid of cop repercussions.

Could be...those cops are known to riot when a decision doesn't to the way they want it to go...regardless of the evidence.

 

[ivwshane]

I fully agree.

Yep! Where you will spend your time and money fighting for a crime you didn't commit with a prosecutor and a cop that are working together to put you away.

You advice would be good if our system of justice was truly blind, apparently it is not.


But I appreciate the victim blaming.

 

[HomerJS]

Exactly...here's a pro-tip for the wanna-be criminals out there. If you're contacted by a police officer, don't attack the cop, don't resist arrest, don't run...if you want to get home alive...you can always fight the charges in court...

IMO, better to spend a couple nights in the tank (whether you deserve it or not) than eternity in a box.

Didn't help this guy. He complies with cop and got shot. Guess if he died could have fought the charges in court??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4GSehYkt8Y

 

[ivwshane]

Could be...those cops are known to riot when a decision doesn't to the way they want it to go...regardless of the evidence.

So you are saying that police never retaliate? Or when you said "riot", you seriously thought that that's how cops handle things when one of their own is prosecuted?

 

[bshole]

It's definitely illegal:



Unless you're going to tell me that putting someone in a choke hold isn't an attempt to obstruct their breathing or blood circulation? The grand jury could easily have indicted him for this crime.

Merg's claim is that it is impossible to put handcuffs on a perp without physically strangling him..... simply can't be done. The object was not to kill the perp, it was to put handcuffs on the dude. It was a clean cuffing all the way.

 

[Abwx]

The first officer walks up behind him after telling him he is under arrest and tries to grab his hand/arm and he pulls it away. The second officer in the front tries to grab his hand/arm and he pulls it away again. Him actively pulling away from the officer when they are trying to arrest him is resisting arrest. The first officer then jumps on the guys back.

Resisting arrest is to block the guy by acively resisting, pulling your hands is not resisting, if he was grabbed and then pushed the policeman hands then he would had resisted.

The one video that is mostly out there seems to skip a few seconds. You'll notice the fade out/in on the video right before the arrest attempt. There's another one from Time Magazine that appears to show the whole video. In it, the officer appears to say to Garner that he is under arrest as he walks up to him and tries to grab his arm.

- Merg

Assuming he was selling cigarettes does the people who do tax evasion being arrested that brutaly generaly.?.

The only thing needed in this case was a simple warning, to tell him to stop thoses activities, after all it wasnt for personal enrichment, that s the result of a society that apply non written laws to a part of its members, explicitely do not give jobs to blacks if possible, even if they have a family of 6...

 

[BoomerD]

So you are saying that police never retaliate? Or when you said "riot", you seriously thought that that's how cops handle things when one of their own is prosecuted?

Please, show us on the doll, where the nasty police officer touched you. 🙄

I have no fondness for cops...I have a felony rap sheet that goes back farther than most of you have been alive...

I know there are dirty cops, bad cops, and just plain criminal cops...but they're not the norm in most places. MOST cops are decent, hard-working people, doing a shitty job for ungrateful pricks...for often shitty pay.

I actually hate liars lawyers more than I hate cops...talk about the oldest profession...😵

 

[ivwshane]

Didn't help this guy. He complies with cop and got shot. Guess if he died could have fought the charges in court??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4GSehYkt8Y

Yeah well the other advice they forgot to say was to not get spooked when police come up on you quickly while you aren't doing anything illegal. You know because your involuntary reactions are your responsibility and the cops voluntary reactions don't have any responsibility.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gP8DNB4Fbs4

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=S9FtNOV6Qhk

 

[ivwshane]

Please, show us on the doll, where the nasty police officer touched you. 🙄

I have no fondness for cops...I have a felony rap sheet that goes back farther than most of you have been alive...

I know there are dirty cops, bad cops, and just plain criminal cops...but they're not the norm in most places. MOST cops are decent, hard-working people, doing a shitty job for ungrateful pricks...for often shitty pay.

I actually hate liars lawyers more than I hate cops...talk about the oldest profession...😵

Well I don't have a rap sheet and my experience with cops are traffic related and I have worked with cops and I have had friends and family that were cops.

None of that changes anything that I've said and I've never said all cops are bad or all cops are corrupt, in fact I've said the opposite and I've chided those that have wished harm on police.

So I'm not sure what your point is.

 

[Abwx]

Also, that guy was the size of a fucking dinosaur, so it makes sense to get him under control.

That s the same as racial profiling, he s big so he s dangeourous...
Now replace, or rather add, black to big and that makes two profilings in a same case..

 

[BoomerD]

Didn't help this guy. He complies with cop and got shot. Guess if he died could have fought the charges in court??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4GSehYkt8Y

Confronted by a cop...he "dove" into his car...then came back out quickly...while I agree that in retrospect, the cop over reacted...there's no way that cop could have known he was going after his license...or a gun. BOTH parties are guilty of stupidity.

 

[Mai72]

It's going to be a very difficult time to be a cop who works in a black neighborhood.

 

[HomerJS]

Confronted by a cop...he "dove" into his car...then came back out quickly...while I agree that in retrospect, the cop over reacted...there's no way that cop could have known he was going after his license...or a gun. BOTH parties are guilty of stupidity.

You must either be blind or have no sense of time. Are you so interested in placing equal blame on the black guy you would call that a dive??

Cop asked for ID he immediately turned into his car to comply. You argue there was no way the cop could have know if he asked for id the guy would get it??

If you are black comply get shot, don't comply get choked and die.

What really pisses me off here is even after being shot the guy was still polite to cop.

 

[master_shake_]

Confronted by a cop...he "dove" into his car...then came back out quickly...while I agree that in retrospect, the cop over reacted...there's no way that cop could have known he was going after his license...or a gun. BOTH parties are guilty of stupidity.

to the untrained eye, the man in the white vehicle when asked for his license patted his pockets and chest trying to find it.

obviously he didn't have it on him and it was in his car.

i have no police training but im positive that everyone who is not stevie wonder can see the man was looking for his wallet.

 

[bshole]

to the untrained eye, the man in the white vehicle when asked for his license patted his pockets and chest trying to find it.

obviously he didn't have it on him and it was in his car.

i have no police training but im positive that everyone who is not stevie wonder can see the man was looking for his wallet.

Well the officer was RIGHTFULLY charged with a crime in this case, so this appears to be an example of when the system actually works. We will have to see if a conviction is obtained.

 

[xBiffx]

It's going to be a very difficult time to be a cop who works in a black neighborhood.

What do you mean "going to be." From police reports and crime statistics it looks like its been difficult.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

What will people do when the DOJ decides that they have no basis for indicting the officer in this case and in Ferguson? Will the government's process be deemed broken as well?

 

[fskimospy]

What will people do when the DOJ decides that they have no basis for indicting the officer in this case and in Ferguson? Will the government's process be deemed broken as well?

I think in Ferguson there was more than enough evidence to indict, although I think in the end the officer should have been acquitted. (from the evidence I've seen)

In this case in NYC I find it baffling that no indictment was issued. You have, *at a minimum*, the officer committing a Class A misdemeanor on video, in violation of explicit department guidelines. From my (limited) understanding the bar for the DOJ to intervene is fairly high, but this one seems so cut and dry that I wouldn't be surprised if they end up indicting him.

 

[xBiffx]

You have, *at a minimum*, the officer committing a Class A misdemeanor

Which is?

 

[fskimospy]

Which is?

§ 121.11 Criminal obstruction of breathing or blood circulation

A person is guilty of criminal obstruction of breathing or blood circulation when, with intent to impede the normal breathing or circulation of the blood of another person, he or she:

a. applies pressure on the throat or neck of such person; or
b. blocks the nose or mouth of such person.

Criminal obstruction of breathing or blood circulation is a class A misdemeanor.

http://ypdcrime.com/penal.law/article121.htm

 

[xBiffx]

http://ypdcrime.com/penal.law/article121.htm

Intent, as key here as it has ever been. No intent, no criminal obstruction of breathing.

 

[fskimospy]

Intent, as key here as it has ever been.

Are you saying that he put Gardner in a choke hold without the intent to obstruct breathing or blood circulation, and you're saying so with such certainty that it would not meet the standard of a grand jury indictment, which is an incredibly low standard?

 

[xBiffx]

Are you saying that he put Gardner in a choke hold without the intent to obstruct breathing or blood circulation, and you're saying so with such certainty that it would not meet the standard of a grand jury indictment, which is an incredibly low standard?

Yep, and the GJ seems to agree. The intent was to subdue him and further prevent him from resisting so that he could be handcuffed and placed under arrest. The intent was not to stop him from breathing and/or kill him.

If I push you off a sidewalk, is my intent to break your ankle?

 

[Mai72]

What do you mean "going to be." From police reports and crime statistics it looks like its been difficult.

What I meant is the police that do anything now against black Americans are going to be more scrutinized. If I was a cop I would think twice before I did anything that could jeopardize my career.

 

[fskimospy]

Yep, and the GJ seems to agree. The intent was to subdue him and further prevent him from resisting so that he could be handcuffed and placed under arrest. The intent was not to stop him from breathing and/or kill him.

Interesting. You believe that he placed someone in a choke hold but did not intend to restrict breathing or blood flow.

I have to say that's one I hadn't heard before, lol.

Intent only refers to whether or not you meant to engage in the action and you could reasonably forsee that it would result in the outcome that's prohibited by law. The officer clearly intended to put Gardner in a choke hold and any reasonable person understands that choke holds obstruct breathing and/or blood flow.

End of story. No question of intent, at all.

The fact that you were engaging in the action for another purpose means nothing. If you want to argue that the police had immunity for other reasons that's one thing, but that has nothing to do with intent. If you want to make the case that police officers have the right to engage in illegal actions that are explicitly prohibited by department policy on nonviolent offenders in situations like those in the video, I'm open to hearing why.