man dies after NYPD cop puts him in chokehold

[William Gaatjes]

I really do not understand that they let the officer go without reprimand.
In the Brown situation, Wilson defended himself as being a cop. But in this case, this cop was way to brutal IMHO.
Choking someone for selling cigarettes ?

 

[GarfieldtheCat]

Just another randowm police shooting...pulled man over for speeding and "thought he had a weapon". Shot once but missed luckily.

http://thefreethoughtproject.com/cop-fires-unarmed-man-6-year-old-daughter-asthma-medicine/


Didn't even report it at first, and it isn't even being investigated why he thought that man had a weapon.

Since is the US, and peole have a right to carry weapons, that means cops get to believe that everyone might be armed, so they are jsutified and shooting whoever they want? Certainly seems that way.

How many "suspected weapons" shootings have we seen, where there is no weapon at all?

Must be be another isolated case right? And I'm sure he didn't actually LIE when his incident report didn't mention shooting once, because cops don't do that since they get into trouble right?

 

[GarfieldtheCat]

Oh, just another bad apple here:

Link

Cop shot him while he was in his car for no reason.And he got a ticket for making an illegal turn. Heaven forbid...we are trying to kill people for tickets now?


This is what the DOJ says about Cleveland PD:

Holder’s 20-month federal inquiry reviewed almost 600 incidents over three years. It found that Cleveland officers “violate basic constitutional precepts in their use of deadly and less lethal force at a rate that is highly significant”. A 13-year-old boy was repeatedly punched in the face. A semi-naked hostage was shot at as he fled his captors.

The report reviewed almost 600 incidents of use of force by Cleveland division of police over three years up to 2013. It detailed incidents of Cleveland police “firing their guns at people who do not pose an immediate threat of death or serious bodily injury” and “hitting people on the head with their guns in circumstances where deadly force is not justified”.

So when the entire PD of a major metropolitan city is called as being abusive and breaking the law, can we dispense with the BS claim of a few isolated bad cops?

So the DOJ concludes there is rampant abuse, and the DA's aren't charging cops. Sure seems like there is collusion there. Cops get away with breaking the law, time and time again, and aren't punished.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally Posted by Londo_Jowo
Well my advice is if you don't want to be arrested, don't break the law. Pretty damned simple.

Dumbass.

http://www.harveysilverglate.com/Books/ThreeFeloniesaDay.aspx

There is good reason he is on my ignore list.

You should add him, everyone should add him and the rest of the ilk like him.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Just imagine how much better your life would be right now had you not chosen to violate the trust of your employer/violated the law.

 

[mizzou]

It looks like the grand jury only considered two charges. That means there is a lot of room for a civil case there.

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/loca...onovan-Grand-Jury-Charges-NYPD-284869641.html

I think it is extraordinarily likely that the city is sued and the city settles. There is no way they want to risk a trial with this sort of evidence against them.

im honestly not sure if the city will represent him. If you break dept. policy, I believe u aldo lose the automafic defense from city attorneys. If hes in a police Union, he will get their representation for counsel....but they wont pay his judgment.....

the city may get aued though if this is consistent with poor training and oversight

 

[The Merg]

im honestly not sure if the city will represent him. If you break dept. policy, I believe u aldo lose the automafic defense from city attorneys. If hes in a police Union, he will get their representation for counsel....but they wont pay his judgment.....

the city may get aued though if this is consistent with poor training and oversight

Yup. If there is a judgement against him, it will most likely fall on his shoulders.

- Merg

 

[werepossum]

I agree that the police absolutely had the responsibility to render aid to him once he was handcuffed. I guess the debate now is when did he stop breathing. The police and EMTs stated that he was still breathing and had a pulse until he was in the ambulance. Others are stating that he stopped breathing while still on the sidewalk. I read that 3 of the EMTs were suspended, but have not read exactly why. If it was for failing to render aid, then that definitely adds credence to the argument that the police failed to render aid as well.

As for talking to him, that's what the cops did. When the camera was turned on, they had already been dealing with him for about 5 minutes. He was agitated and defensive and kept telling the police to leave him alone. The use of force continuum from the bottom up is officer presence, verbal commands, hands-on. They had already gone through the first two.

- Merg

Agreed, but is five minutes sufficient time before taking down a man like this for selling loose cigarettes? To my mind, no.

I think a large part of this is that Garner apparently has a very long rap sheet going back decades; the cops are used to arresting him, and he's used to being hassled as an, um, habitual customer. He was in fact out on bail at the time of his death. But nothing of which he's been accused is a significant crime, just violating the tobacco tax and whatever other minor charges could be associated. (WTF is "aggravated unlicensed vehicle operation" anyway?) It's worth pointing out that with his health, his record, his skill set, his education, and (at least arguably) his skin color, this is the best the man could do. He deserved the same respect I'd get if I was agitated.

It's also worth pointing out that these kind of taxes (sixty cents a cigarette) are what this country was founded to oppose. Maybe not taxation without representation, true. But ask Garner's widow how represented he felt.

Well written as always :thumbsup:

Thanks, Dave.

This, this, Jesus Titty Fucking Christ, THIS.

A crime as trivial as selling loose cigarettes should have resulted in a single cop writing him a ticket, not SIX cops wrestling him to the ground violently in an attempt to arrest him.

As you said, this is indicative of the militarization of the police force. YOU WILL RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH! Uncle Sam needs his cut from tobacco sales. You will comply or armed goons can assault, even kill, you and get away with it.

There's a much bigger picture here than police simply killing a black man. It's our government continually using escalating force on its own citizens over trivial matters that either don't hurt anyone, only hurt themselves (individual drug possession, for example), or are so minor that the costs of arresting, going to trial, and incarcerating the individual far, far, far outweigh the lost tax revenue to the state.

Exactly.

EDIT: I bet de Blasio is having some very strong language for law enforcement right now. "When I say 'crack down' on something minor, it goes without saying I don't mean 'kill them'."

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

I think that the Grand Jury in St. Louis got Ferguson right...but this is manslaughter imo.

 

[fskimospy]

I think that the Grand Jury in St. Louis got Ferguson right...but this is manslaughter imo.

I'm a little torn on Ferguson. My preference would have been indictment and acquittal in Ferguson, but regardless the evidence against the cop in Ferguson was shaky at best. In this case the evidence is pretty damn...well... damning. To not even issue an indictment on this baffles me.

Then again, it's Staten Island.

 

[werepossum]

If America is fair, why aren't there any African Americans on our currency?

When was the last time you pulled a $100 Al Sharpton, or a quarter with Malcolm X on it?

No Sharpton, please, but a Malcolm X five dollar coin would be pretty cool.

Guess what scumbags? That fucker who KILLED people when driving drunk gets to go to rehab while this guy who was selling a couple of cigarettes gets killed. How the fuck do you justify that.

We don't have a justice system, we have a legal system - where you can buy all the justice you can afford. Or all the protection from justice you can afford.

Just imagine how much better your life would be right now had you not chosen to violate the trust of your employer/violated the law.

Um, I think he was actually supporting you and referring to Bober Fett.

Also, it should be said that what Dave did was neither illegal nor (by most our standards) violating employer trust. His prosecution occurred because he did something relatively innocuous at a time when his employer and state LEOs needed to prosecute someone for something vaguely related. At least 99.99% of the time the response would have been either "okay", "okay, but don't do that again without asking", or "take it off and don't do it again without asking". As his pardon indicates, he was mostly collateral damage.

This is worth relating to Garner too. In some ways, this man represents an American ideal; he was doing what little he could given his health and his marketable skills and education to support himself and his family. Match girls were probably breaking the King's law as well.

 

[Jaskalas]

I really do not understand that they let the officer go without reprimand.
In the Brown situation, Wilson defended himself as being a cop. But in this case, this cop was way to brutal IMHO.
Choking someone for selling cigarettes ?

I'm conflicted if the arm around the neck directly killed him, or if some other aspect of his arrest was fatal. Medical examiner claimed there was no damage to the throat.

The manner in which he was arrested resulted in his death. Was it the arm around the neck, was it the man sitting on top of him, was it throwing him to the ground on his stomach?

 

[smackababy]

I'm conflicted if the arm around the neck directly killed him, or if some other aspect of his arrest was fatal. Medical examiner claimed there was no damage to the throat.

The manner in which he was arrested resulted in his death. Was it the arm around the neck, was it the man sitting on top of him, was it throwing him to the ground on his stomach?

Larger suspects have died from simply being handcuffed and put on their stomach for prolonged periods of time, IIRC. I believe, procedure is to sit them upright when the scene is cleared and safe.

People crying over police attempting to arrest this guy are morons. This wasn't his first offense, he was breaking the law, and he actively resisted once being told he was being placed under arrest.

 

[Bird222]

Larger suspects have died from simply being handcuffed and put on their stomach for prolonged periods of time, IIRC. I believe, procedure is to sit them upright when the scene is cleared and safe.

People crying over police attempting to arrest this guy are morons. This wasn't his first offense, he was breaking the law, and he actively resisted once being told he was being placed under arrest.

That's a question right there. Why didn't they sit him up and just left him on his side?

 

[Linux23]

http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/20...HM/story.html?p1=Article_Trending_Most_Viewed

If people don't believe police are nothing more than thugs with guns, I really don't know what to say. Yet we are suppose to respect these goons and make them out to be heroes?

They are above the law.

 

[smackababy]

That's a question right there. Why didn't they sit him up and just left him on his side?

That is a good question, but it certainly isn't answered by rioting like fools or pretending that evidence stating the "choke hold" didn't damage his neck should be ignored.

 

[Fern]

I really do not understand that they let the officer go without reprimand.
-snip-

I've read that he will face an administrative hearing. I can't imagine that he'll come out of that without some form of reprimand or punishment.

Fern

 

[BoberFett]

http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/20...HM/story.html?p1=Article_Trending_Most_Viewed

If people don't believe police are nothing more than thugs with guns, I really don't know what to say. Yet we are suppose to respect these goons and make them out to be heroes?

They are above the law.

Simpkins, 41, admitted that he started drinking beer after a softball tournament, went to a bar and drank some more, then went to another tavern and kept drinking before heading to the Wendy’s in Stoughton, where he was found asleep at the wheel, according to the arrest report.

He was so groggy that when a state trooper asked him for his driver’s license, he handed over his Visa card instead.

But the Massachusetts State Police kept Simpkins, who earns roughly $130,000 a year, on paid administrative duty even after he lost his license for a year for refusing a breath test and couldn’t go out on patrol. And with no alcohol test results, a judge acquitted him of the criminal charges after tossing much of the other evidence on legal technicalities. Now, he’s back on patrol out of the Boston barracks.

Fuck. That.

If you or I were caught in that position, we'd be facing massive penalties, jail time, possibly even an ass kicking by the pigs the way things seem to be going. But he gets a stern lecture and he's back out on the street.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, there are NO GOOD COPS. They're all pigs, either themselves or covering for other pigs. They're all crooked.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

I had a DUI reduced to reckless driving. $200 fine plus $150 court costs. One month later paid $100 and 6 hours on a Saturday to attend a defensive driving course that took away the points from the reckless driving.

 

[BoberFett]

I had a DUI reduced to reckless driving. $200 fine plus $150 court costs. One month later paid $100 and 6 hours on a Saturday to attend a defensive driving course that took away the points from the reckless driving.

Now it all makes sense, that's why you get on your knees for cops.

Or maybe it got reduced BECAUSE you get on your knees for cops...

:hmm:

 

[smackababy]

Now it all makes sense, that's why you get on your knees for cops.

Or maybe it got reduced BECAUSE you get on your knees for cops...

:hmm:

What came first: the reduction or the suction?

 

[alzan]

I've read that he will face an administrative hearing. I can't imagine that he'll come out of that without some form of reprimand or punishment.

Fern

Oooh, an administrative hearing and possible reprimand. That stings just thinking about it.

It'll probably take him several seconds to get over it.

 

[xBiffx]

Oooh, an administrative hearing and possible reprimand. That stings just thinking about it.

It'll probably take him several seconds to get over it.

This statement says more about you than it does about him.

Your job and life must suck if you think that something that could threaten both and change them entirely should be taken so lightly. Others think that the loss of a job or being faced with a huge judgement is a pretty big deal. Exactly what is it that you value?

 

[alzan]

This statement says more about you than it does about him.

Your job and life must suck if you think that something that could threaten both and change them entirely should be taken so lightly. Others think that the loss of a job or being faced with a huge judgement is a pretty big deal. Exactly what is it that you value?

Really? How so?

Based on the need for good PR, I'm guessing that the NYPD might put this guy on paid/unpaid administrative leave for anywhere from 3 - 6 weeks; he won't lose his pension.
Publically, they'll say that he was severely reprimanded.

Do you have some inside information or a little bird telling you something more might happen?

Yeah, didn't think so.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Now it all makes sense, that's why you get on your knees for cops.

Or maybe it got reduced BECAUSE you get on your knees for cops...

:hmm:

Or the owner of the bar I worked at called in a favor.