Man busted by FEDs for modified Wii

[Googer]

While US Immigrations and Customs Enforcement are remaining tight-lipped about what exactly they have seized thus far, a certain modder has come forward to depict his story and explain the experience of getting raided by the fuzz. After agents woke up his grandmother and perused her domicile with a warrant in hand, they confiscated a number of consoles and spare parts around the house before heading out to find the man behind FallsInc. Once locating him at his girlfriend's dwelling, they persuaded him to hand over everything even remotely related to modding, and he was left with "nothing of worth" outside of a computer monitor and his vehicle. Unsurprisingly, the culprit (or victim, depending on perspective) feels that his "life was taken away by a ludicrous interpretation of the DCMA" as the "little guy" was taken down while mass piraters remain at large. To read his whole account, be sure and tag the read link.


http://www.engadget.com/2007/0...etails-the-experience/

 

[Googer]

http://www.xbox-scene.com/xbox...EElyEEkAllysyVJWYQ.php

 

[iamaelephant]

So what's the deal with modding, legality-wise? It's probably against the EULA, and if that's the case I guarantee this guy knew that, and I have no sympathy for him. I don't know all of the details of what is and isn't legal though, so I'll reserve judgment.

 

[DaveSimmons]

The thread title is misleading since he was modding in volume for money.

"I continued to have the orders sent there for security of the packages. They went in the house and woke everyone up and watched them get dressed and started going though everything that was in my old room, and the stuff I had in the garage. They took anything that was related to gaming. They opened all the mail I had waiting for me there (which included someone's Xbox and $150 for a mod and 400gb), ..."

 

[Gunslinger08]

Originally posted by: iamaelephant
So what's the deal with modding, legality-wise? It's probably against the EULA, and if that's the case I guarantee this guy knew that, and I have no sympathy for him. I don't know all of the details of what is and isn't legal though, so I'll reserve judgment.

EULA != law.

 

[Gunslinger08]

I wonder how things like this will be affected in the next 10-20 years as people who actually know anything about computers, video games, and other methods of digital entertainment become politicians and law enforcement officers.

 

[DaveSimmons]

This guy was busted as a modder-for-profit not for playing with his own wii.

It might be legal for you to mod your own console, regardless of EULA, but the chipmaker and dealers may be violating copyrights, patents and the DMCA.

 

[TheGizmo]

ah thats fucked, they should be cracking down on ppl selling copies not modders, who are just geeks makin a few bucks on the side.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: TheGizmo
ah thats fucked, they should be cracking down on ppl selling copies not modders, who are just geeks makin a few bucks on the side.

Who sells copies of games? Anyone smart enough to get their system to play pirated software is smart enough to find the pirated software.

 

[effowe]

Most modchips (at least for Xbox) come with a stripped down linux flashed onto the chip. It's all just components and chips that you put in your box, it's when you flash a modded bios that you are circumventing the copy write protection, which is a violation of the DMCA. I believe that most Wii modchips are flashed with a bios that circumvents the protection, which is what will get you in trouble. This raid was about going after the providers of the chips, and those who profit off of installing devices that allow you to play "backups".

 

[Googer]

DMCA = Garbage

 

[UncleWai]

Two wrongs don't make a right. This guy took the risk of starting a modding service and got caught.

 

[Injury]

Originally posted by: UncleWai
Two wrongs don't make a right. This guy took the risk of starting a modding service and got caught.

Probably made a few grand and didn't report one bit of it to the government, either. Dude is screwed. I don't feel sorry for him to willingly hand over things to the goverment. Anyone and everyone should know that in the completely random chance you have of getting even a few items back, it's going to be busted up and broken. If they are looking for modchips in the stuff they aren't exactly going to just bubble-wrap it and set it on a shelf until he asks for it back.

 

[dhaddox]

"domicile"? "dwelling"? A little pretentious are we?

 

[olds]

Worst writing, ever.

 

[Raduque]

Originally posted by: Injury

Originally posted by: UncleWai
Two wrongs don't make a right. This guy took the risk of starting a modding service and got caught.

Probably made a few grand and didn't report one bit of it to the government, either. Dude is screwed. I don't feel sorry for him to willingly hand over things to the goverment. Anyone and everyone should know that in the completely random chance you have of getting even a few items back, it's going to be busted up and broken. If they are looking for modchips in the stuff they aren't exactly going to just bubble-wrap it and set it on a shelf until he asks for it back.

Fine, get him for tax evasion. Not "Modding". There's absolutely NO laws against modifying consumer electronics hardware. He is not responsible for what people do with the modded hardware.

Maybe the government should go after Microsoft under DMCA violations for allowing people to install pirated programs? This is completely ludicrous, and the only reason this guy was singled out because he's a small person, in the US, not a company or in a foreign country, and therefore easier to "make an example out of".

Utterly disgusting.

Oh, and Wai, if he didn't hand it over willingly, they'd have gotten a warrant to seize the equipment belonging to him regardless of location, which would have been viewed by the courts as an indicator of guilt. Though, the only reason he's guilty is that our government is greedy and thinks only of it's wallet when making laws.

 

[ultimatebob]

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
This guy was busted as a modder-for-profit not for playing with his own wii.

It might be legal for you to mod your own console, regardless of EULA, but the chipmaker and dealers may be violating copyrights, patents and the DMCA.

Yeah, he's definitely screwed. He's basically building and selling equipment designed to circumvent copy protection for a profit, which makes him enemy #1 for Nintendo and Microsoft.

I'll bet the police raid the folks building hacked cable and satellite boxes to get free service all the time as well, but they don't seem to get the same press that the game box modders do.

 

[Injury]

Originally posted by: Raduque

Originally posted by: Injury

Originally posted by: UncleWai
Two wrongs don't make a right. This guy took the risk of starting a modding service and got caught.

Probably made a few grand and didn't report one bit of it to the government, either. Dude is screwed. I don't feel sorry for him to willingly hand over things to the goverment. Anyone and everyone should know that in the completely random chance you have of getting even a few items back, it's going to be busted up and broken. If they are looking for modchips in the stuff they aren't exactly going to just bubble-wrap it and set it on a shelf until he asks for it back.

Fine, get him for tax evasion. Not "Modding". There's absolutely NO laws against modifying consumer electronics hardware. He is not responsible for what people do with the modded hardware.

Maybe the government should go after Microsoft under DMCA violations for allowing people to install pirated programs? This is completely ludicrous, and the only reason this guy was singled out because he's a small person, in the US, not a company or in a foreign country, and therefore easier to "make an example out of".

Utterly disgusting.

Oh, and Wai, if he didn't hand it over willingly, they'd have gotten a warrant to seize the equipment belonging to him regardless of location, which would have been viewed by the courts as an indicator of guilt. Though, the only reason he's guilty is that our government is greedy and thinks only of it's wallet when making laws.

Except there actually ARE laws against circumventing copyright protection both hardware side and software side.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DMCA

This is the exact same laws that held P2P programs liable for allowing users to connect to each other and download copyrighted works.

Quite frankly, if you aren't knowledgable enough to install your own modchip, you probably aren't the type of person that wants to use it for experimental or homebrew applications on a game console. Knowing that the majority of people that he was doing this work for were doing it so they could pirate games is the most likely reason for the raid.

He all but admitted that he was guilty when he allowed the cops to violate his constitutional rights against illegal search and seizure. He should have told them that he wanted to speak with a lawyer immediately.

Finally, No, requiring them to get a warrant is NOT ONE BIT at admission of guilt, and the court CANNOT view it that way. It is his CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT. We have this little policy called "Must be proven beyond reasonable doubt" which means that the court can't just assume that someone is doing something wrong because they exercise their rights or do nothing illegal.

 

[Killerme33]

I've always wondered: If you were to copy a Wii or 360 DVD on your computer why wouldn't it play w/o a modchip? Isn't the DVD exactly the same as the original?

 

[AccruedExpenditure]

Originally posted by: Killerme33
I've always wondered: If you were to copy a Wii or 360 DVD on your computer why wouldn't it play w/o a modchip? Isn't the DVD exactly the same as the original?

n00b.

 

[Injury]

Originally posted by: Killerme33
I've always wondered: If you were to copy a Wii or 360 DVD on your computer why wouldn't it play w/o a modchip? Isn't the DVD exactly the same as the original?

For the same reason that Windows software doesn't run (natively) on the Mac platform, and for the same reason that you weren't able to install Windows on the Mac before they were redesigned to work the same as PCs.

The coding is designed to run with specific hardware and a specific firmware/OS/etc. You can copy the contents of the disc because a computer can read it, it just doesn't know what to do with it. It's a foreign language to computers.

 

[jpeyton]

I read his story and I have only one comment:

He is a complete tool for voluntarily giving his property to ICE when they didn't have a warrant.

He is also a complete tool for voluntarily speaking with ICE without arrest, without charge, and without a lawyer present.

I can't believe people are so naive. When the authorities are raiding your home and seizing your property, they are not your friends and you shouldn't volunteer a single thing.

 

[Killerme33]

Originally posted by: Injury

Originally posted by: Killerme33
I've always wondered: If you were to copy a Wii or 360 DVD on your computer why wouldn't it play w/o a modchip? Isn't the DVD exactly the same as the original?

For the same reason that Windows software doesn't run (natively) on the Mac platform, and for the same reason that you weren't able to install Windows on the Mac before they were redesigned to work the same as PCs.

The coding is designed to run with specific hardware and a specific firmware/OS/etc. You can copy the contents of the disc because a computer can read it, it just doesn't know what to do with it. It's a foreign language to computers.

I'm sorry I kinda phrased my question wrong. I meant if you use your computer to make an exact copy of the DVD and then put it in your Xbox or Wii it won't run it. Isn't it the new DVD an exact copy of the old one?

 

[Injury]

Originally posted by: Killerme33

Originally posted by: Injury

Originally posted by: Killerme33
I've always wondered: If you were to copy a Wii or 360 DVD on your computer why wouldn't it play w/o a modchip? Isn't the DVD exactly the same as the original?

For the same reason that Windows software doesn't run (natively) on the Mac platform, and for the same reason that you weren't able to install Windows on the Mac before they were redesigned to work the same as PCs.

The coding is designed to run with specific hardware and a specific firmware/OS/etc. You can copy the contents of the disc because a computer can read it, it just doesn't know what to do with it. It's a foreign language to computers.

I'm sorry I kinda phrased my question wrong. I meant if you use your computer to make an exact copy of the DVD and then put it in your Xbox or Wii it won't run it. Isn't it the new DVD an exact copy of the old one?

The problem there is that the discs themselves contain a specific bit of information that is required to decode the disc... somewhere in that inner ring of data is a ring that relates directly to the system that allows it to work.

 

[Old Hippie]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
I read his story and I have only one comment:

He is a complete tool for voluntarily giving his property to ICE when they didn't have a warrant.

He is also a complete tool for voluntarily speaking with ICE without arrest, without charge, and without a lawyer present.

I can't believe people are so naive. When the authorities are raiding your home and seizing your property, they are not your friends and you shouldn't volunteer a single thing.

I would venture to say 95% of the people that have never been arrested before, will react this same way. I see it all the time. I find it extremely amusing to see all the tough talk, when I know most people have never been arrested.