Man being investigated for practicing engineering without a license

MikeMike

Lifer
Feb 6, 2000
45,885
66
91
Citizen activist grates on state over traffic signals

RALEIGH -- David N. Cox says he was merely exercising his right to petition the government, but a state Department of Transportation official has raised allegations that Cox committed a misdemeanor: practicing engineering without a license.

Cox and his North Raleigh neighbors are lobbying city and state officials to add traffic signals at two intersections as part of a planned widening of Falls of Neuse Road.

After an engineering consultant hired by the city said that the signals were not needed, Cox and the North Raleigh Coalition of Homeowners' Associations responded with a sophisticated analysis of their own.

The eight-page document with maps, diagrams and traffic projections was offered to buttress their contention that signals will be needed at the Falls of Neuse at Coolmore Drive intersection and where the road meets Tabriz Point / Lake Villa Way.

It did not persuade Kevin Lacy, chief traffic engineer for the state DOT, to change his mind about the project. Instead, Lacy called on a state licensing agency, the N.C. Board of Examiners for Engineers and Surveyors, to investigate Cox.

Cox says Lacy is trying to squelch dissent.

"All we ever tried to do was express our view about this," said Cox, a computer scientist. "We never expected something like this. We think it's wrong. We're just trying to make our neighborhood safe."

Lacy said his complaint "was not an accusation" against Cox.

"I'm not trying to hush him up," Lacy said.

Cox has not been accused of claiming that he is an engineer. But Lacy says he filed the complaint because the report "appears to be engineering-level work" by someone who is not licensed as a professional engineer.

The city will start construction this spring on the 1.3-mile project to widen Falls of Neuse, a busy commuter route, from Fonville Road to Raven Ridge Road. Cox's group has been lobbying elected city, state and federal officials to help push for the added traffic signals.

The City Council agreed last year to add signals at the two intersections if DOT agrees that they are warranted by traffic conditions. But an engineering firm hired by the city concluded that the signals were not needed.

The North Raleigh group contends that the city's engineer erred by failing to predict how traffic conditions will change after Falls is widened to four lanes and medians are installed to block left turns from some side streets.

Lacy said he had told the group last year that it should hire an engineer to make its case. He said he was surprised to see engineering-quality work in a report that was not signed by a licensed professional.

"When you start applying the principles for trip generation and route assignment, applying judgments from engineering documents and national standards, and making recommendations," that's technical work a licensed engineer would do, Lacy said.

DOT gets many reports and petitions from residents opposing road plans and engineering decisions. Lacy said this is the first time he has referred a case to the professional licensing board.

Andrew L. Ritter, executive director of the engineers licensing board, said it will take three or four months to investigate Lacy's allegation against Cox. He said there is a potential for violation if DOT and the public were misled by "engineering-quality work"- even if the authors did not claim to be engineers.

"We don't take the side of the DOT," Ritter said. "What's best for the public is what we'll find."

If Cox is found to have practiced engineering without a license, Ritter said, the likely action would be a letter telling him not to do it again.

Cox would not identify the report's authors.

"I helped pull the report together," he said. "Because of this investigation, I'm not going to say who was involved in it and who wasn't involved. All we're saying is our association prepared the report."

http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/02/03/964781/citizen-activist-grates-on-state.html

Okay i get it, you aren't allowed to do professional work, without a license...

wait, WHAT?
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
The stupidity is never ending in this country. So this guy presents an engineering level plan to this douchebag and is now under investigation. Maybe he should have done in something more familiar to Lacy, Crayon.
 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,029
2
61
I once practiced engineering without a license. The results were great. Everyone got stoned.
 

her209

No Lifer
Oct 11, 2000
56,336
11
0
If Cox is found to have practiced engineering without a license, Ritter said, the likely action would be a letter telling him not to do it again.
Oh noes!!!!!!!!!!1
 

Thump553

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
12,836
2,620
136
One stupid bureaucrat filing a moronic complaint does not a national crisis make. "Engineering-level work" is so totally nebulous as to be absolutely bullshit-it reminds me of the old medival guild days.

I'm a bit surprised that the investigatory board so desperately needs to justify it's existence by stretching out the "investigation" of this complaint.
 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
17,844
1
0
This is pretty ridiculous. As long as a third party isn't paying you for something and you're not pretending to be licensed, I don't see the point.
 

Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
20,557
3,728
126
So, simply because he took the time to present a well thought out, well documented report he is now being investigated? Was Lacy expecting someting along the lines of a typical ATPN response?
 

Binarycow

Golden Member
Jan 10, 2010
1,238
2
76
maybe they should hire that guy to work for them as a traffic engineer instead of the incompetents they very likely have now working for them.
 

ShawnD1

Lifer
May 24, 2003
15,987
2
81
Intelligence is a crime in America, didn't you know?
We know this is the right approach because even the bible implies that thought crime is still crime.

You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
 

Binarycow

Golden Member
Jan 10, 2010
1,238
2
76
We know this is the right approach because even the bible implies that thought crime is still crime.

You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

boy I hope my priest is ready this week to go over with me during confession my long-ass list of adultery I have committed over the years
 

ShawnD1

Lifer
May 24, 2003
15,987
2
81
boy I hope my priest is ready this week to go over with me during confession my long-ass list of adultery I have committed over the years
It's probably a mistranslation of some type. It would make a lot more sense if the passage was talking about attempting to do something being just as bad as doing it. Trying to kill you is just as sinful as actually killing you.

Alright so US law says that intention to kill and actually killing are not the same and therefore attempted murder should have a lighter sentence. At the same time, drawing up plans for something an engineer would do is just as morally wrong as practicing engineering without an engineering license. Logical fail :hmm:
 

Scotteq

Diamond Member
Apr 10, 2008
5,276
5
0
boy I hope my priest is ready this week to go over with me during confession my long-ass list of adultery I have committed over the years


Complete 999 consecutive Novenas*, and thou shalt be absolved, my son...







*{A Novena is a series of prayers said over the course of 9 days. 999 of them would take 24.6 years}
 
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JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,947
126
while i think its good that we make sure people are really engineers before they say build a bridge I think this is definitely misuse of power.
 

PsiStar

Golden Member
Dec 21, 2005
1,184
0
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Even tho it is necessary to prove that one understands engineering & should be licensed for public projects, I have never thought that any government entity was intelligent enough to ensure that PE testing was adequate or up to date. This case adds credence in a round-a-bout way that information, logic, intelligence has no bounds nor does the uniformed & stupid.

I think an anti-KLacy movement should be initiated. Isn't it about time that the stupid have responsibility for their actions also??? I feel empowered in a very humbling way by the Egyptians.
 

bruceb

Diamond Member
Aug 20, 2004
8,874
111
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It seems a misuse of public official power. If the report is accurate and the facts as stated can be proved or verified, it should not matter who did it. The person who created never said it was by an engineering firm. And for that matter, quite clearly, the so-called pros hired by the city, did in fact, omit and fail to take into account the extra traffic that will be generated after the road is widened. Of course, you don't need a traffic light right now. But you sure will after the work is done. And of course, it will cost twice as much to add it later, to dig up the road bed, install the pole, signals, wiring, controller, all of which can be done while the road is being widened at less cost.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,613
11,255
136
Even tho it is necessary to prove that one understands engineering & should be licensed for public projects, I have never thought that any government entity was intelligent enough to ensure that PE testing was adequate or up to date. This case adds credence in a round-a-bout way that information, logic, intelligence has no bounds nor does the uniformed & stupid.

I think an anti-KLacy movement should be initiated. Isn't it about time that the stupid have responsibility for their actions also??? I feel empowered in a very humbling way by the Egyptians.

Professional engineering is regulated by every state. In Oklahoma it is illegal to represent yourself as an engineer (for hire) or perform engineering work without a license (what is considered engineering work is fairly narrowly defined). I don't think just making a report and presenting it would cause any problems, unless the report tried to make claims that it's authors were PEs. If he had made a report or plans and offered it for sale that would be something different.

I guess I could see a little bit of gray area if he was trying to influence large groups of people with the report also.

EDIT: I read the rest of the article, I could definitely see a case against them on this if there was no disclaimer clearly stating that the work was not done by an engineer. They were making technical recommends in a report that appeared to be engineering quality, this could misled people into making incorrect decisions.
 
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PottedMeat

Lifer
Apr 17, 2002
12,363
475
126
LOL the group's report was probably better prepared than anything the real DOT engineers put together...


Go ahead Lacy, take away their non-existent professional engineer's license.
 

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
44,296
16
81
From TFA:

Lacy said his complaint "was not an accusation" against Cox.

"I'm not trying to hush him up," Lacy said.

Calling BULLSHIT on this. They're clearly trying to shut him up.