Malaysian PM: "To be very crude the fate of the Muslims of today is of their own making"

[Martin]

This may be old news to us, but its important to note that the PM or a predominantly muslim country said this during a Muslim conference.

Link

 

[FelixDeCat]

This is truly sad. Why are these people so head strong on this issue?

 

[Texmaster]

It is always good to see someone take responsibility.

Too bad its just such a drastic minority.

 

[kru]

mind boggling to see Mahathir ease up on the anti-western rhetoric long enough to say anything else.

 

[yllus]

*nods* Good man. Now if the people would just:

A) Realize religion and government in the same cart never works
B) Discover national pride and feed their incomes back into the local economy
C) Realize patronage and corruption only neuter your company's effectiveness
D) Appreciate and respect the law and its enforcers
E) Pay their damn taxes!

Then we'd have some kind of a beginning.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

"It is shameful...that all we Muslims can do when the Israelis massacred the Palestinians in Jenin and elsewhere is to appeal to others for pity and help," he said.

Yeah, real good man.

 

[Kilban]

<< *nods* Good man. Now if the people would just:

A) Realize religion and government in the same cart never works
B) Discover national pride and feed their incomes back into the local economy
C) Realize patronage and corruption only neuter your company's effectiveness
D) Appreciate and respect the law and its enforcers
E) Pay their damn taxes!

Then we'd have some kind of a beginning.

>>



Yep, since America does it, so should everyone else.

 

[pillage2001]

Finally, he has spoken. It's a fact. I'm speaking for my country. That's Malaysia to you guys. What he said is true. What the Muslims are facing tody is their own wrong doing.

 

[ZaneNBK]

Nice that he's still calling what happened in Jenin as massacre, even though the PA numbers refute that statement. <60 Palestenians dead and ~33 Israelis dead is not a massacre.

*sigh*

I'm sure that the rest of the Arab and Islamic world has ignored the correction as well.

 

[Kilban]

Amnesty International said there was a massacre. The same with many other Un-biased sites. What more proof do you want? I swear this is the same thing as the "who planned the WTC attacks" problem. America was blaming OBL for everything even though they had no proof. They finally coughed up some crappy videos and they said this is enough proof. In that video did he say "I planned those attacks". He was just happy about what happened on 9/11.

BTW, I do believe he planned those attacks even though America hasn't put cold hard facts on the table. You guys have to use some common sense here.......if Israel didn't massacre anyone, why wont they let UN investigators into Jenin? After the UN creates Israel 50 years ago, they are not even allowed to do a little inspection?

:disgust:

 

[ZaneNBK]

Um, check the facts. The PALESTENIAN AUTHORITY reported <60 deaths in Jenin last time I checked.

Yeah, I'm sure the PA is interested in covering up an Israeli massacre.

 

[sean2002]

The reason th UN backed out is because, it's thier fault what happend in Jenin. It was an UN run camp that under UN rules there was to be know weapons there, but yet there was hundreds of armed fighters and bomb making factories, where was the UN then?

 

[HombrePequeno]

Didn't President Musharraf say something similar a few months back?

 

[ZaneNBK]

BTW Kilban, Amnesty International DID NOT say there was a massacre there. They said there were human rights violations there. Two completely seperate issues. Please get your facts straight or post a link to AI's report of an actual massacre.

 

[yllus]

<< Yep, since America does it, so should everyone else. >>

That was exceptionally poorly argued. I would think those 5 steps are sort of independent of "Western values" and more along the lines of "common sense".


<< "It is shameful...that all we Muslims can do when the Israelis massacred the Palestinians in Jenin and elsewhere is to appeal to others for pity and help," he said.

Yeah, real good man. >>

Well, yeah I see your point. Stepping out of helplessness/apathy and into confrontation is not exactly a positive step, but while stepping out of the current stagnation common sense is bound to break out at SOME point. A prosperous people are a peaceful people, or something like that...it just has to get better.

 

[alrocky]

quote by Kilban <<A.I.said there was a massacre. The same with many other Un-biased sites... >>

He won't post those "Un-biased sites" because he knows those sites don't exist. <U>Time</U> magazine and the <U>Human Rights Watch</U> both agree that there was no massacre in Jenin. The Chief Palestinian negotiator, Saeb Erakat cried wolf about 200 to 500 phantom deaths, but the PA has since been discredited and backed off the claim. The Human Rights Watch was also critical of the "Palestinian gunmen" becasue they "endangered civilians...planting explosives and intermingling with civilians during" the fight.

 

[gopunk]

kilban - amnesty international calls just about anything a massacre / human rights violation

anyways, what other people have said. i have not seen any reputable source call this a massacre.

 

[Cure]

If Americans lived in refugee camps I wonder how they would defend them. Or would they just line up in nice rows with six-shooters before the tanks so they could get mowed down.

 

[Nefrodite]

and of course amnesty international and groups like it turn a blind eye to palestinian suicide bombers, their mines and bombs in the streets and buildings etc. wonderfully biased. there were more then 120 bombs/mines in jenin, up to 250LB's each of explosives. wonder why bulldozers were sent in?

 

[Chooco]

<< Yep, since America does it, so should everyone else. >>


that attitude is exactly why most of the world hates the US.

 

[alrocky]

It seems Cure advocates and endorses the Palestinian process of getting 72 virgins via the massacre of Jews on Passover. Cure, you should know that suicide and suicide bombing is a violation of the tenets of Islam. Those freedom loving Palestinian gunmen hiding behind Catholic sanctuary are terrorists as far as the Italian government is concerned and doesn't want them either. Jenin was home to dozens of suicide bombers and your Palestinian friends were happy to fight the IDF. They lined the streets and doorways with hundreds of bombs, endangering the few inhabitants (10%) who were foolish enough to stay. Those Palestinian laid bombs are still injuring Palestinians today. Why is it Cure, that your fellow Arab countries treat their Arab brothers, your beloved Palestinians, like red-headed step-children?

According to the UN, there weren't suppose to be any guns, bombs, weapons in Jenin or any other <U>refugee camps</U>, Cure. The leader, Arafat has denounced terrorism, yet there are terrorists and a lot of weapons in Jenin.

 

[Chooco]

<< Those freedom loving Palestinian gunmen hiding behind Catholic sanctuary are terrorists as far as the Italian government is concerned and doesn't want them either. >>


WHAT!?!?!?! that is in Jerusalem (spelling), Jerusalem is in either Palestine or Israel.....i think Israel. Italy has completely no say in this because nobody gives a crap as to what they have to say.

 

[Nemesis77]

<< Amnesty International said there was a massacre >>



Ummm, no. Both Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch have said that they have not found any evidence of massacre in Jenin. They did find evidence of war-crimes being committed by IDF (among other thing, using palestinian civilians as human-shields), but no massacre.

 

[alrocky]

I'll write slow for you so you can keep up. Those fellows holed up in the Christian church were scheduled to go to Italy, but no one told Italy this and they (Italy) were offended and presently refuse to let those fellows in. My point which may or may not have escaped your attention, is that the Italians in their refusal referred to those Palestinians as terrorists.

<<that attitude is exactly why most of the world hates the US.>> A wee bit of hyperbole, no? Tell me, to which country do most people want to move to and live in?

 

[Chooco]

The real answer to "where do most people want to emigrate to" is Canada actually since immigrants have more rights than actual citizens and the line to get in is only 30 minutes long (an actual report on TV followed 1 foreigner coming in with no passport and he was let into the country in roughly 35 minutes! (HOW BS!! :|). I wish i was an American so i could have rights as a citizen instead of second class rights as a Canadian citizen in Canada.

The world hates the US because they view the US as 'meddlers' interfering in matters that they don't belong in. Such examples would be when US helped Hussein get power in Iraq in 1975 and when you helped Moammar Khadafy get power in Libya in 1969. When the CIA tried to control the Iranian government, Ayatollah Khomeini became a hero for standing up to the USA. To fix the problem of that hatred, there was support for a war between Iraq and Iran in which Hussein recieved US weapons, including chemical and biological weapons, as well as encouragement. Since Iraq was tired of fighting Iran, they called off the war and attacked Kuwait thinking that USA would allow this war too but they were wrong.

the hate for the US has just snowballed, because of the initial support, Iraq thought it could get away with attacking Kuwait just as it did with Iran. When US just anihilated the Iraqi army, Iraqis supported Hussein even more because US was this big bad country who destroyed their army in the peoples' eyes.
It's not that US is a bad country, it's that bad decisions in the past have put you guys in a lose-lose situation in the eyes of the Arab world .