Malak's Scripture of the Day

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Nik

Lifer
Jun 5, 2006
16,101
3
56
I think we moving more towards a two-caste system.

You'll have the poor, uneducated, and religious. And you'll have the well-off, educated, and non-religious.

I say this because, all of the atheist people I have met were educated and well-off. My experiences with the lower class show they are much more religious.

I firmly believe that religion was invented by non-nobles as a method to gain control and power over masses when they weren't born into power.

Yet another reason why the higher class knows it's bullshit and the lower class seems to fall for it.
 

Leros

Lifer
Jul 11, 2004
21,867
7
81
I firmly believe that religion was invented by non-nobles as a method to gain control and power over masses when they weren't born into power.

Yet another reason why the higher class knows it's bullshit and the lower class seems to fall for it.

I tend to agree with this. I think their intentions might have been good in the beginning. I can just imagine telling the masses things that would make their life better (such as not eating pork, which was bad for you at the time) and the masses would ignore you. But as with all kinds of power, it became corrupted.
 

Hyperlite

Diamond Member
May 25, 2004
5,664
2
76
legendarythreadba8.jpg
 

Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
41,596
20
81
I think we moving more towards a two-caste system.

You'll have the poor, uneducated, and religious. And you'll have the well-off, educated, and non-religious.

I say this because, all of the atheist people I have met were educated and well-off. My experiences with the lower class show they are much more religious.
And religion can provide (false) hope where there is none, particularly in impoverished regions.

"Gee my life sucks now, and it'll never get any better. But let me tell you, once I die, it'll be smooth sailing from then on!"

"So can I kill myself now and go to that nicer place sooner?"

"No, because God places an inexplicably high value on suffering."

".......Up yours, God."



It also provides numerous rationalizations for bad conditions.
- No food? Famines are the norm? Hey guess what, God loves fasting!
- Diseases kill large numbers of people on a regular basis? Good, they're in Heaven now!
- Natural disasters, presumably under God's control? (Seriously, how the hell can you blame an earthquake on humanity's alleged fall from grace?) Well, I guess God just wanted those people in Heaven as well, so stop complaining about every tsunami that wipes out hundreds of thousands of people. If anything, ask for more.
- War kills lots of people? That's not God's fault in any way whatsoever, even if the wars are being fought in his name, with both sides using the same scripture to justify their actions.
- No money? Jesus would approve, so stop complaining.
- Sick and can't afford a doctor? God will look out for you...unless you contract a fatal illness. Just try not to think too hard about that little paradox, or any of the others here.


Oh well....
and I'm still trying to figure out if Malak is really a hardcore Bible Thumper, or just an epic troll.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,268
126
I firmly believe that religion was invented by non-nobles as a method to gain control and power over masses when they weren't born into power.

Yet another reason why the higher class knows it's bullshit and the lower class seems to fall for it.


Not likely. From the first scratchings of humanity there are signs of religious beliefs. In fact it's likely that faith is hardwired into us. That being the case it isn't just a social convention.

It's not going away soon, and I really don't understand all the angst. Oh, at the superficial level yes, but all it takes to get someone pissed is for another to quote a scripture, which I've done on many occasions, but not to try to convert. Usually it was a backhanded way to call some people out ;)

It always get's them.
 

Malak

Lifer
Dec 4, 2004
14,696
2
0
I firmly believe that religion was invented by non-nobles as a method to gain control and power over masses when they weren't born into power.

I tend to agree with this. I think their intentions might have been good in the beginning. I can just imagine telling the masses things that would make their life better (such as not eating pork, which was bad for you at the time) and the masses would ignore you. But as with all kinds of power, it became corrupted.

I agree completely. It's amazing how much power the pope had back in the day. Even today people hang on every word he says, though his actual power has disappeared from the political realm. Corruption was a problem from the start, there are stories right in the bible about how various cults started up.

None of that takes away from the message of the bible. None of that makes being a Christian wrong in any way. The corruption of a million should not hide the righteousness of one.
 

Inferno0032

Golden Member
Mar 26, 2007
1,107
0
71
No doubt the bible has good advice in it for living a good moral life, but you don't need the bible to know whats right and wrong.

I've read the bible, multiple times. I grew up somewhat Christian. I wasn't brainwashed with church as a kid, but I did go to a Christian private school for 9 years. The more I learned about Christianity, the more questions I had and the less Christianity made sense.

Basically, I was willing to blindly believe in god as a kid for a few reasons. One, it felt good. Two, everybody else around me did so it seemed likely to be the right thing to do. But as I grew up and learned to think for myself, the concept of Christianity just did not make sense.

This seems to apply quite well to me as well. I'm not against religion, because I think, for the most part, it does good for people, gives them something to cling to, and the fear to do good things.

However, as I grew older, I started to realize how these seemed to become more and more like fables, things used to explain what people couldn't explain then. Rainbows being a symbol from God that he won't flood the world again seems just like the Greeks thinking that thunder was Zues' (I think) chariot rumbling across the sky, just a means of explaining what we don't understand. And from then, I've gone away from organized religion, and when I look at the massively corrupt past of organized religion, I can't really accept it any longer.

Plus, I believe that if there is a God, he would be understanding, and would understand that me searching for my OWN answers is better than blindly following others'. He would understand that I have no evidence for unending devotion, and would understand my doubts, and with that I have no fear regardless. I won't cast away the idea that there may be a God, because I can't say there isn't any more than I can say there is. I just accept both possibilities, and live by doing what I know is good and wrong, and that's all that is needed.
 

Nik

Lifer
Jun 5, 2006
16,101
3
56
Not likely. From the first scratchings of humanity there are signs of religious beliefs. In fact it's likely that faith is hardwired into us. That being the case it isn't just a social convention.

It's not going away soon, and I really don't understand all the angst. Oh, at the superficial level yes, but all it takes to get someone pissed is for another to quote a scripture, which I've done on many occasions, but not to try to convert. Usually it was a backhanded way to call some people out ;)

It always get's them.

Humanity (read: stupid gullible people) existed long before written language was established in any form.
 

Miramonti

Lifer
Aug 26, 2000
28,653
100
106
Its interesting because the OP is simply posting about what he wants to talk about. Didn't say anything about anyone else, didn't proselytize, didn't dis anything or anyone.

Yet some people act hostile, antagonizing, and like an outright fvcktard.

Some people need to just STFU with the flame baiting and thread crapping.

This person has been here 5 years, and obviously didn't sign up with the sole intention to discuss this, and afaic, he can post something like this if he wants, and anyone acting like a thought-police fvcktard should consider pulling their heads out of their @sses.
 
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Nik

Lifer
Jun 5, 2006
16,101
3
56
I agree completely. It's amazing how much power the pope had back in the day. Even today people hang on every word he says, though his actual power has disappeared from the political realm. Corruption was a problem from the start, there are stories right in the bible about how various cults started up.

None of that takes away from the message of the bible. None of that makes being a Christian wrong in any way. The corruption of a million should not hide the righteousness of one.

You don't need a silly fictional book of fairy tales to be righteous. Who's to say the Bible is anything more than just a silly fictional book of fairy tales anyway? Why does one book belong in the Bible but other books do not?

Why does god like playing hide-and-seek? Why did god create people knowing they wouldn't choose him and would therefore be damned to hell for eternity? Why are we here? It's not for his "glory" or any other god-needs-something bit.

There are a billion questions levied against religion that really can't be answered logically or without even more questions being generated that end up defeating the concept of religion anyway.

Blah blah blah, people are stupid and will believe absolutely anything, including that of which has no proof to support the claim other than a handful of crazies running around burning people at the stake for not believing the way they do.

Fuck'em all.
 

Nik

Lifer
Jun 5, 2006
16,101
3
56
Its interesting because the OP is simply posting about what he wants to talk about. Didn't say anything about anyone else, didn't proselytize, didn't dis anything or anyone.

Yet some people act hostile, antagonizing, and like an outright fvcktard.

Some people need to just STFU with the flame baiting and thread crapping.

This person has been here 5 years, and obviously didn't sign up with the sole intention to discuss this, and afaic, he can post something like this if he wants, and anyone acting like a thought-police fvcktard should consider pulling their heads out of their @sses.

The flame baiting is posting religious bullshit on these forums. The OP is a bigger flame baiting troll than anyone else involved in this thread. Yes he is, in fact, proselytizing.

This is a public forum. If you don't want to participate in the topic at hand, then get the hell out. However, you have just as much a right to post your garbage as the OP does to post his. Don't like people replying how they're replying? Maybe you should consider your audience before you post.

"Thou shalt keep thy religion to thyself!"
-George Carlin
 

Malak

Lifer
Dec 4, 2004
14,696
2
0
However, as I grew older, I started to realize how these seemed to become more and more like fables, things used to explain what people couldn't explain then. Rainbows being a symbol from God that he won't flood the world again seems just like the Greeks thinking that thunder was Zues' (I think) chariot rumbling across the sky, just a means of explaining what we don't understand. And from then, I've gone away from organized religion, and when I look at the massively corrupt past of organized religion, I can't really accept it any longer.

Completely understand. When I read about the rainbow, my thought process is different though. Instead of just disregarding the significance of it as some odd religious thing, I think about whether or not there were ever rainbows before this. I wonder if the atmosphere was different back then, which might also translate into the different length of a standard lifespan that occurred before the flood. Maybe the people made up that the rainbow was a promise, but maybe it really was a result of the flood.

Plus, I believe that if there is a God, he would be understanding, and would understand that me searching for my OWN answers is better than blindly following others'. He would understand that I have no evidence for unending devotion, and would understand my doubts, and with that I have no fear regardless. I won't cast away the idea that there may be a God, because I can't say there isn't any more than I can say there is. I just accept both possibilities, and live by doing what I know is good and wrong, and that's all that is needed.

It is better to trust a man who seeks truth, than one who comes to you saying he has found it. The only fault in your thinking is that how will you ever find out if God is there if you don't genuinely search for him? It's not an easy thing, to find God. He does not have a phone number you can reach him at, nor a residence that you can visit him at.
 

Miramonti

Lifer
Aug 26, 2000
28,653
100
106
You don't need a silly fictional book of fairy tales to be righteous. Who's to say the Bible is anything more than just a silly fictional book of fairy tales anyway? Why does one book belong in the Bible but other books do not?

Why does god like playing hide-and-seek? Why did god create people knowing they wouldn't choose him and would therefore be damned to hell for eternity? Why are we here? It's not for his "glory" or any other god-needs-something bit.

There are a billion questions levied against religion that really can't be answered logically or without even more questions being generated that end up defeating the concept of religion anyway.

Blah blah blah, people are stupid and will believe absolutely anything, including that of which has no proof to support the claim other than a handful of crazies running around burning people at the stake for not believing the way they do.

Fuck'em all.

Those are all good questions, but seriously, is your definition of truth and reality (or anyone else's for that matter) any more worthy and valid than someone who has faith in a god?

In general, I think most people's interpretation of what reality is is skewed with their baggage, bias, prejudice, skepticism, false beliefs, and overall can have a relatively minimal value in the big picture of things, and that's not limited to people that might have faith in a god that may or may not exist.


/edit: and my criticisms weren't directed at your posts or anyone else's not necessarily on board with the OP, just the useless flametard trolling posts.
 
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Nik

Lifer
Jun 5, 2006
16,101
3
56
If the earth had that much water covering it, there would have to be massive underground caverns and a very very very thick cloud layer or vapor layer. If there were a vapor layer that thick, the atmospheric pressure would be higher, which woulud help explain how beasts like brachiosaurus were able to breathe.

But that's still a HUGE leap of faith with no evidence to support.
 

Nik

Lifer
Jun 5, 2006
16,101
3
56
Those are all good questions, but seriously, is your definition of truth and reality (or anyone else's for that matter) any more worthy and valid than someone who has faith in a god?

Yes. Blind faith is REALLY dangerous. It takes faith to believe that the sun will rise tomorrow morning, but there's evidence for why I'm putting my faith in yes. Religion is just ... LOL

In general, I think most people's interpretation of what reality is skewed with their baggage, bias, prejudice, and overall can have a relatively minimal value in the big picture of things.

The big picture? Religion promotes not looking at the big picture. Religion promotes daydreaming and an extremely loose grip on reality.
 
Mar 11, 2004
23,444
5,852
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Well this makes sense after you hid behind bullshit excuses in that evolution thread, instead of just admitting that you were hiding behind your religion.
 

Malak

Lifer
Dec 4, 2004
14,696
2
0
You don't need a silly fictional book of fairy tales to be righteous.
Who's to say the Bible is anything more than just a silly fictional book of fairy tales anyway? Why does one book belong in the Bible but other books do not?[/quote]

You are right, you don't need the bible to be righteous. In fact, owning a bible in no way impacts your abilities as a human being. That is not the purpose of the book and if you think it is, then you should reconsider why the bible exists.

Who's to say the Bible is anything more than just a silly fictional book of fairy tales anyway?

You are. Nobody can tell you or convince you otherwise. Entirely up to you. There is some evidence that the book of Job might in fact just be nothing more than a story. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. Most of the bible is only a recording of history, there are no fairy tales there. It's generally accepted by most historians.

Why does one book belong in the Bible but other books do not?

A fantastic question, and a friend of mine who runs a church had an entire sermon on the subject. He only answered why the bible is what it is today, not why it should be. There is nothing stopping anyone from reading any other book and finding wisdom in it. To say the bible is the only word of God is to say God spoke once and never again, that is silly. Besides, men wrote the books not God, right? According to the bible all wisdom is sourced in God, so doesn't that mean any good book is acceptable?

Why does god like playing hide-and-seek? Why did god create people knowing they wouldn't choose him and would therefore be damned to hell for eternity? Why are we here?

God created men and women in the beginning. Since then, we have created and influenced ourselves. Pre-flood, the bible says God asked the same questions you did. Why bother creating them if they would do such evil? The problem is that it comes down to a choice of whether mankind ever existed, or if it continues to exist both good and bad. Would you give up all the good that could ever happen just to erase all the evil that could ever happen? In the end the evil is our fault, not God's, so the guilt lies with us. Given a chance to do good or evil, that is all we are born with.
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
Completely understand. When I read about the rainbow, my thought process is different though. Instead of just disregarding the significance of it as some odd religious thing, I think about whether or not there were ever rainbows before this. I wonder if the atmosphere was different back then, which might also translate into the different length of a standard lifespan that occurred before the flood. Maybe the people made up that the rainbow was a promise, but maybe it really was a result of the flood.



It is better to trust a man who seeks truth, than one who comes to you saying he has found it. The only fault in your thinking is that how will you ever find out if God is there if you don't genuinely search for him? It's not an easy thing, to find God. He does not have a phone number you can reach him at, nor a residence that you can visit him at.

Unless some divine being makes his presence known, my logical conclusion is such being does not exist.

There is physical evidence for everything that exists. Yet there is none to prove some magical being exists. I cannot believe in something for which no physical evidence exists.

I will continue living my life according to how I know best, and make judgments of knowledge based on what is available at the time. I will continue being a logical individual who lacks a belief in something for which I have no evidence for, unless one day some divine magical guy appears in front of me and proclaims all his divinity. At that point, I'd have no choice but to accept this guy's existence as fact, because I'd have confirmed proof right there in front of me. But until then, I will continue "believing" what I do, because I cannot subscribe to any concepts that lack evidence in the physical world.
 

Malak

Lifer
Dec 4, 2004
14,696
2
0
Yes. Blind faith is REALLY dangerous. It takes faith to believe that the sun will rise tomorrow morning, but there's evidence for why I'm putting my faith in yes. Religion is just ... LOL

The big picture? Religion promotes not looking at the big picture. Religion promotes daydreaming and an extremely loose grip on reality.

Religion is more often than not about rules that are meant to make us feel bad about ourselves and condemn others. I in no way endorse such things. Neither does the Gospel. Jesus attempted, quite unsuccessfully to some, to convince the Jews that they should live their life based on love and not rules, that the rules will not save them or make them righteous.
 

Nik

Lifer
Jun 5, 2006
16,101
3
56
Religion is more often than not about rules that are meant to make us feel bad about ourselves and condemn others. I in no way endorse such things. Neither does the Gospel. Jesus attempted, quite unsuccessfully to some, to convince the Jews that they should live their life based on love and not rules, that the rules will not save them or make them righteous.

So you're saying that the Bible is both right AND wrong?
 

Malak

Lifer
Dec 4, 2004
14,696
2
0
Unless some divine being makes his presence known, my logical conclusion is such being does not exist.

There is physical evidence for everything that exists.

Can you hold the wind in your hand, or see it's presence in the sky? When someone comments that it is windy today, what do you look for? So it is with God. When they say they have seen him, what do you look for?
 

Malak

Lifer
Dec 4, 2004
14,696
2
0
So you're saying that the Bible is both right AND wrong?

It is important to take the bible for what it is. It is a collection of books, written by many men over the course of 4 thousand years. Each book can have a different purpose. Proverbs has suggestions for better living, while Psalms is a book of poetry and music. Some are just history, this guy begot that guy, and even some are prophecy. Each individual book should be understood separately.
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
Can you hold the wind in your hand, or see it's presence in the sky? When someone comments that it is windy today, what do you look for? So it is with God. When they say they have seen him, what do you look for?

...
what?

I have no idea how to reply to that. I am at a loss for words.

Sounds like you do not accept science for the knowledge it gives mankind. And since that must be the case, I have no idea how to explain wind to you.

:confused:
 

Leros

Lifer
Jul 11, 2004
21,867
7
81
Can you hold the wind in your hand, or see it's presence in the sky? When someone comments that it is windy today, what do you look for? So it is with God. When they say they have seen him, what do you look for?

I look for direct evidence outside. I might see trees bowing or things being blown on the ground. I can go outside and feel the air particles hitting my face.

If you know what wind is (air particles moving) then what you said doesn't even really make sense.
 
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