Making a new computer [Hardware choice&Compability help?]

[DukeLaze]

Hello there!
So, I've decided to build a new computer, and I want the (reasonably priced) BEST!

I've picked out the parts which I think will be good, while maintaining a good price/performance ratio.

Current approx. Price [37300 NOK|| 5700 USD]

Shoppinglist (In Norwegian, same names though):
https://www.komplett.no/k/shoplist....09269&su=1E6760E1-E62B-40C1-A7C4-7EE4624D69A9


What I will be using this system for:
Gaming, Recording, Editing, Rendering, 3D Modeling and animation, Virtualization of a business environment etc.
(This system is supposed to max every game 1080p, possibly 3x1080p, while being as close to silent as possible)

SSD is for OS + Main programs/Games, might add another one and RAID0(Running automatic backup)

The three 4TB WD Red drives I want to have in RAID5 (originally wanted 4 drives, but gotta start somewhere).

I still need to decide on CPU cooling and RAM. I'm also uncertain about which motherboard and PSU to get. I want to overclock until volt/temps become the problem, not stability because of crap power delivery or MOBO.

Edit: On my current PC, I have a problem with running RAID0 on two 64GB SSD's, while keeping my 3rd SSD (OS disk) out of any RAIDs, the PC just bluescreens before loading windows. I've installed all the (presumably) correct drivers. I don't want a problem like this with this new computer, so it needs to be able to run:
OS Disk non raided (or Raid 0)
AND
Massive, safe storage (RAID5 pref.)
+ potentially more "loose" disks that might come and go as I see fit, non raided.


Anyone want to comment, give advice, contribute? <3

Moved from Computer Help

mfenn
General Hardware Moderator

 

[Cerb]

First, whoever's the mod down in these parts, could you maybe get this over to GH, where it's what folks are looking for?

RAM: Undecided, placeholder 32GB 4x8GB 2400Mhz CL16(SIX-TEEN!?)

Roughly equal to CL10 at 1600MHz. The 2133MHz CL15 kit should do just as well.

Case: Fractal Design Define R4 https://www.komplett.no/k/ki.aspx?sku=757466

I would be concerned that this PC, which without OC, might be going over 400W, might be too much for the R4 to keep cool, while also keeping noise down. It will work, but I wonder if a case with more cooling oomph might do better in terms of noise, like one of the bottom-to-top Silverstones, such as the FT02, RV02, or RV05 (FT02 is a bit better, but RV05 is available at the linked store). Your OC results could very well bring you to 500W (more if you also OC the GPUs, and even more yet if you get video cards with higher TDP limits).

(This system is supposed to max every game 1080p, possibly 3x1080p, while being as close to silent as possible)

On air? with 400W+ to get rid of under load? Er...I'm skeptical.

The three 4TB WD Red drives I want to have in RAID5 (originally wanted 4 drives, but gotta start somewhere).

Unless all they do is take big sequential video data, you will likely not be happy with the performance. Plus, if you need to rebuild, be ready to take an impromptu vacation from your PC.

I still need to decide on CPU cooling and RAM. I'm also uncertain about which motherboard and PSU to get. I want to overclock until volt/temps become the problem, not stability because of crap power delivery or MOBO.

ASRock, Asus, and GB are all good. At this price level, MSI, too.

Since you're putting serious money into it, anyway, just go with Noctua, if sticking to air.

Also, try to get a mobo that let's you space the video cards out by 3 slots, not the standard 2, if you stick to the stock coolers on the cards. Most high-end mobos can do that, these days.

 

[inachu]

Seriously if you are going to dump that much into then you may as well get an awsome sound card as well.
Then the pc can be anything you want it to be:server,audio editing,video editing.

May as well get a really good microphone like the blue yetti.

 

[DukeLaze]

First, whoever's the mod down in these parts, could you maybe get this over to GH, where it's what folks are looking for?
<snip>

Thank you for the response
I think you're pretty much right about the 400W-500W estimate, I wouldn't think it was too much to deal with :S I will more or less "fill" the R4 with silent 140mm/120mm fans, airflow should be good.

I was originally thinking about going with the Corsair H110, but it won't fit in the R4 unless I mod it (and remove all the HDD bays, so it's a no go) so, one of the Noctua coolers should do? Or should I get the H100/105/100i?

As far as I could see, the MOBO I picked now have 3 slot spacing from first PCI-E x16 lane to the next. I'm not planning on going 3-way, so the third socket isn't an issue.

So the WD RED drives isn't any good? Because of the speed, size, or?
The WD REDs will most likely be used for file sharing across LAN, so I thought the reliability, life-span and "24x7 operation" would be good? Can you think of any other disks who might servere such a purpose? (Also, RAID5 would increase the R/W speed wouldn't it? CBA to check the calculator now, gotta run to work :|

I'll bb in 8 hours.

 

[DukeLaze]

Seriously if you are going to dump that much into then you may as well get an awsome sound card as well.
Then the pc can be anything you want it to be:server,audio editing,video editing.

May as well get a really good microphone like the blue yetti.

I have never felt the need for a sound card :S Granted I use a Logitech G35, and two 550W loadspeakers.

Since I make videos, I'd love to get the Blue Yeti though But that's gonna come second to a new PC.

I've tried making music, never again I just ain't good at it.

 

[AMD Die Hard]

Seriously, with your budget, why not go for 2 X GTX 980 and be able to support multi monitor 4K at your leisure.

 

[DukeLaze]

Seriously, with your budget, why not go for 2 X GTX 980 and be able to support multi monitor 4K at your leisure.

My budget is limited
I GTX 980 SLI is not enough to play games at 3x 4k.
4k Monitors are expensive.
My PC would die from recording and rendering 4k.

I'd rather keep 1080p native, and eventually get one 4k monitor for eyecandy games, keep the 3x 1080p for simulators and driving games etc.

I was thinking about two GTX 980's (or AMD R9 295x2, before 970/980 launched) but I think the extra, 10 or so FPS isn't worth the double price.

No cursing in the technical forums.

mfenn
General Hardware Moderator

 

[Cerb]

I was originally thinking about going with the Corsair H110, but it won't fit in the R4 unless I mod it (and remove all the HDD bays, so it's a no go) so, one of the Noctua coolers should do? Or should I get the H100/105/100i?

The CLCs can you get better temps, at the cost of added noise (pump and fans), compared to good quiet air coolers, like the NH-D14/15, HR-02, etc.. It's a trade-off, and if OCing with a limited budget, not necessarily a straight-forward choice (if running stock, stick to air).

As far as I could see, the MOBO I picked now have 3 slot spacing from first PCI-E x16 lane to the next. I'm not planning on going 3-way, so the third socket isn't an issue.

The reason is to give room for the video card coolers to circulate their air, instead of the bottom one staying far hotter, when crammed right up against another one. It's now the unusual case that you can't space them out by an extra slot, but still something to watch for.

So the WD RED drives isn't any good? Because of the speed, size, or?

Given noise concerns, the Reds are a pretty fair choice for plain storage, with multiple drives. They really do vibrate less than most, on average, and barely have any whine to them.

RAID 5, however, can be a problem. If large enough data sets are being written to replace whole stripe sets, it can be fairly fast at sequential writing, with a write-back cache set up. However, doing so without a battery backup removes half of the protection you get from a RAID >0, as an unplanned failure (including power loss) during a write can corrupt data in a way that may require going to backups. Also, Even with write-back cache on, Intel's RAID 5 has poor/variable random read and write performance, though decent sequential.

 

[DukeLaze]

The CLCs can you get better temps, at the cost of added noise (pump and fans), compared to good quiet air coolers, like the NH-D14/15, HR-02, etc.. It's a trade-off, and if OCing with a limited budget, not necessarily a straight-forward choice (if running stock, stick to air).

The reason is to give room for the video card coolers to circulate their air, instead of the bottom one staying far hotter, when crammed right up against another one. It's now the unusual case that you can't space them out by an extra slot, but still something to watch for.

Given noise concerns, the Reds are a pretty fair choice for plain storage, with multiple drives. They really do vibrate less than most, on average, and barely have any whine to them.

RAID 5, however, can be a problem. If large enough data sets are being written to replace whole stripe sets, it can be fairly fast at sequential writing, with a write-back cache set up. However, doing so without a battery backup removes half of the protection you get from a RAID >0, as an unplanned failure (including power loss) during a write can corrupt data in a way that may require going to backups. Also, Even with write-back cache on, Intel's RAID 5 has poor/variable random read and write performance, though decent sequential.

I see...
Well, I will be OCing (aiming for 4.2Ghz-4.5Ghz) the GPU's will probably be OC'ed as well, aiming for around 1400-1500 core clock.

The main concern you're having, is that there will be too much heat, and the R4 won't be able to blow it away?

My budget is limited at around 50.000 NOK (around 8k dollars) including monitors, and maybe other peripherals, if that means I can acheive my stable, and silent PC with OC by buying a good AIO unit, or highest end air cooler, then so be it. I will not make custom loop because of the hazzle with maintenance, plus the redonkulus high price here in Norway.

I have never actually owned a raided PC (that worked at least) but that is something I really want, and I want it to work flawlessly.
It will function as mass storage, I would love for it to have increased R/W. It will be streamed from, and it will be recorded/rendered form/to, and it will hold all kinds of media files, pictures, movies, music, documents etc.

Do you have any disks you could reccomend? (Knowing I want high preformance, security AND silence?)

 

[Cerb]

I see...
Well, I will be OCing (aiming for 4.2Ghz-4.5Ghz) the GPU's will probably be OC'ed as well, aiming for around 1400-1500 core clock.

The main concern you're having, is that there will be too much heat, and the R4 won't be able to blow it away?

No, that your goal of near silence goes against dealing with all that heat, especially the way the R4 is made to keep things quiet. The R4 can get rid of the heat. But, if you open the side vents, or top vents, or remove the baffling grill plates from the front fans...each step allows more noise to escape freely, and each fan not in the front intake could substantially increase audible noise (given 2 GPUs and a high-power CPU, I think the front intakes themselves can be more or less ignored).

Putting the PC itself in another room is not an absurd option, when 500W might actually be a reasonable load heat expectation, once OCed . Also, it appears that MSI's Gaming GTX 970 has a bit higher TDP than Asus' Strix. Gigabyte has higher than either, but doesn't turn off its fans at idle.

Do you have any disks you could reccomend? (Knowing I want high performance, security AND silence?)

The Reds are fine. I'd just go for RAID 10, which will give you about 2-drive RAID 0 write speeds, and reads possibly higher, with no performance wonkiness. Plus, a rebuild on driver failure only takes a couple hours, and should be tolerably performant while going on.

 

[DukeLaze]

No, that your goal of near silence goes against dealing with all that heat, especially the way the R4 is made to keep things quiet. The R4 can get rid of the heat. But, if you open the side vents, or top vents, or remove the baffling grill plates from the front fans...each step allows more noise to escape freely, and each fan not in the front intake could substantially increase audible noise (given 2 GPUs and a high-power CPU, I think the front intakes themselves can be more or less ignored).

Putting the PC itself in another room is not an absurd option, when 500W might actually be a reasonable load heat expectation, once OCed . Also, it appears that MSI's Gaming GTX 970 has a bit higher TDP than Asus' Strix. Gigabyte has higher than either, but doesn't turn off its fans at idle.

The Reds are fine. I'd just go for RAID 10, which will give you about 2-drive RAID 0 write speeds, and reads possibly higher, with no performance wonkiness. Plus, a rebuild on driver failure only takes a couple hours, and should be tolerably performant while going on.

Ah, goody good.
Raid 10 would require 4 drives tho, but I can dig it
Have you had any experiences with running multiple RAIDS + having non raided disks in the same machine?

I will have to think about the case a lil longer... I don't want a much bigger case, nor more expensive. I want it quiet, but I don't want to roast my components... So 1 fan in the bttom, intake, 2 fans in top either with rad, or without (exhaust). 1 rear exhaust and two intake front? if I get the Noctua case fans, it shouldn't bee too loud.... + the 3 fan built it fan controller

 

[Cerb]

Ah, goody good.
Raid 10 would require 4 drives tho, but I can dig it
Have you had any experiences with running multiple RAIDS + having non raided disks in the same machine?

Works fine. The non-RAID disks operate just like if you had it in AHCI mode. Just that in RAID mode, you must use Intel's driver, whereas in AHCI you can use MS' or Intel's.

I will have to think about the case a lil longer... I don't want a much bigger case

Much bigger is going to be hard . The R4 is a monster of a midtower. It is a good case, too. Just don't expect the same level of acoustic performance as a typical midrange box using it, when you might be having to get rid of another 200-300W under load.

 

[DukeLaze]

Works fine. The non-RAID disks operate just like if you had it in AHCI mode. Just that in RAID mode, you must use Intel's driver, whereas in AHCI you can use MS' or Intel's.

Much bigger is going to be hard . The R4 is a monster of a midtower. It is a good case, too. Just don't expect the same level of acoustic performance as a typical midrange box using it, when you might be having to get rid of another 200-300W under load.

Wait... So the R4 is "huge" for a mid tower? I hope it's smaller than Corsair Obsidian 650D, cause that's what I'm coming from. It is way too big, and the fan noise is unbearable T_T

Could you maybe suggest a good "cube" case? (prefferable with motherboard "laying down" as in the BitFenix Prodigy) That have space for all that I've listed (+ some expandability) with good airflow and rather silent?

I think my interests are fighting eachother... High OC, cool temps, silence, space efficient... Yeah, this gonna be though to decide on.

 

[Cerb]

Just grabbing some specs (reordering by the R4's given WxHxD):

R4: 232 x 464 x 523mm
650D: 229 x 521 x 546mm
300R: 210 x 485 x 449mm
200R: 210 x 430 x 497mm

It is smaller than the 650D. Corsair's 200R and 300R are typical midtower sizes, and it's a bit bulky in comparison to that.

 

[mistersprinkles]

Seriously if you are going to dump that much into then you may as well get an awsome sound card as well.
Then the pc can be anything you want it to be:server,audio editing,video editing.

May as well get a really good microphone like the blue yetti.

Soundcards have been eclipsed by external DACs. A soundcard has an impedence of about 15 Ohms vs about 1 Ohm for integrated audio, so really, a really good ALC1150 implementation is going to sound as good as/better than a $200 sound card, and eliminate less of the bass. (Teksyndicate did a video on this).

For ultimate PC sound, you want
A) An external DAC/amp in some kind of small form factor, or even better

B)A proper receiver/amp (Hi-Fi) unit.

You connect these either via USB or SPDIF, and they sound 10X better than any soundcard.

 

[Cerb]

15 Ohms will do nothing to the bass, unless it's used to drive headphones, and those headphones present a lower impedance in the low frequencies than higher. As a line-out, output impedance doesn't make a difference until into the tens of thousands of Ohms (and even then only because it's usually going into a 10-50k pot, before another opamp). It's only an issue for low-impedance headphones, and will affect both ends of the spectrum, if so (more both the low and high end than mids, as ~300-1500 seem to be where most drives have low impedance).

There's no reason a sound card cannot have <1Ohm output impedance, and many probably do, especially if they have dedicated headphone outs.

But, all the same, unless the board is particularly know for bad sound, if you're not generally attuned to hearing the crap, or don't use equipment that brings it out (sensitive drivers driven at lower output levels are going to do that worse than less sensitive drivers driven to higher output levels), don't worry about it unless it's an issue, or if you want the DSP. When I upgraded, I tried my new onboard, and it's not bad if all power saving is off, and my GPU stays at idle speed (better than the old days, but in a kind of Phyrric way).

 

[DukeLaze]

I'm not an audiophile, so it doesn't really matter that much As long as there's bass I'm all for it!

The AsRock Mobo had ALC1150 AFAIK? Should be good enough for my Logitech G35. And my 550W speakers are connected to HDMI PC <-> HDMI Receiver <->HDMI TV.

I've updated my build, made a few cuts, and a few upgrades. Now including some more peripherals as well.

https://www.komplett.no/k/shoplist....09269&su=1E6760E1-E62B-40C1-A7C4-7EE4624D69A9
(Sorry that it's all in Norwegian xD The names should be the same tho.)

Any new comments on cooling/space/Cost efficiency etc.? Do you think the 760W PSU will be fine?
And do you have any experience with a fan controller like that? I'm a lil worried about the "30W per channel" stuff. I plan to run 5 fans off of it, and preferrably they will be quiet :S

 

[DukeLaze]

Thanks to everyone who replied and helped me out with several questions
This is most likely the final build: https://www.komplett.no/k/shoplist....09269&su=1E6760E1-E62B-40C1-A7C4-7EE4624D69A9

If anyone have any improvements, tips or comments, please do post them

If not, a mod may close this thread once he seess it!
-DukeLaze