Make your predictions - Best QB out of the 06 Draft

[erikistired]

Originally posted by: konichiwa
CUTLER

They lost to Middle Tennessee State on a blocked FG, doesn't really have much to do with it. Considering he played for the doormat of the best football conference in the country and still put up 3000 yards says a lot about his talent when playing with a crack squad of footballers against the future of the NFL.

vandy is pretty much the whipping boy of the SEC. it's hard to judge him as a player by his team and what they did.

 

[z42]

Originally posted by: fallensight
in the 2-3 year stretch, leinart. But mostly because of his supporting cast. I dont think he has all the parts to be a great NFL QB. I'm a college football nut and watched alot of both young and leinart(vandy is never on tv around here, or i would ahve seen more of him) Leinart floats too many passes. Watching the games he trows the balls high and drops them down from above onto the reciever more often than not. He doesnt have a whole lot of 'zip' when he needs to thread the ball in tight. And those floaters will get picked alot more in the NFL from DBs who know how to possition themselves.

In the long run, 5 years+, I'm going to have to go with Young. He has all the physical tools, and contrary to the wonderlic test(which really is about worthless for predicting what will happen, ryan leaf scored more than 10 points higher than steeve young) he does run games well. He needs to improve reading NFL defenses, but that goes for every QB making the jump. The shotgun vs center debate is over rated. Rothlisburger took most of his snaps from the shotgun in college too. And he has those intangibles that make the the great leaders. He elevates the players around him and takes the team onto his back when needed, look at the USC and Ohio State games.

I'm not sold on Cutler. He may be a decent QB, but I just dont see him making a probowl. I just dont see a guy who loses to Middle Tennessee State making it.

A lot of good points. I went with Young because he has the physical ability to bail himself out if he screws up his reads. Like Steve Young, I see him doing a lot more running the first few years until his head catches up with his body. Not saying he will be as good as Steve Young, but they seem similar to me at this point. You guys might be surprised how little intelligence it takes to play sports vs. instinct and reaction. I'm not saying it's irrelevant, but I think it's overrated. I grew up playing bball with J Kidd and the guy was dumb as a bag of hammers, but give him the basketball and magic happens. Modern examples of idiot-savants. <I don't mean that as a put down, don't know if there is a more PC term to use>

 

[miniMUNCH]

I have not seen Cutler play much (i think I have seen one Vandy game in the last 2 years) so I can't comment intelligently on his NFL future...but the numbers he put up in the SEC say something for him.

 

[mitaiwan82]

Originally posted by: touchmyichi
Leinart-
I think the "no arm strength" is BS. He's been a fantastic quarterback in an NFL style offense at USC, how about that final ND play or nearly carrying a team to a onepeat (and by the way he was great up until the end of rose bowl).

fixed

I'd say VY, but I'm biased...

 

[z42]

Originally posted by: miniMUNCH

Originally posted by: z42
I'm going to go with Vince Young. The guy is tough and accurate and will make things happen with his feet when all else fails.

Leinart = Todd Marinovich. Have you guys actually watched USC play? All of his "great" passes occur after about 7 secs in the pocket. The guy played great in college, don't get me wrong, but he is not going to make it in the NFL IMO. He has good touch, but his decision making is a little slow and he floats his passes too much.

I will wager than on none of his great passes has Matt held the ball for 7 seconds, not even 4 or 5 secs. No scouts have questioned his decision making ability because his track record speaks for itself. Floats passes...I agree with you there.

I've watched basicaly every game that Leinart has played the past 3 seasons. All the things scouts said about Leinart, many of the same things were said about Palmer (some scouts said far worse about Plamer).

There is little or no arm strength problem...watch the 2005 orange bowl again, if you can. Leinart threw a few very nice 50 yard strikes. And if you tally up arm strength both among up top NFL prospects and even top NFL QB's...there aren't many that can accurately throw further than 60-65 yards from where they are standing. Leinart can certainly do that.

Leinart focused more, I think on throwing an easily catchable ball where ever possible. He has can zip the ball on skinny posts and deep ins/out when and where necessary.

I do agree that Matt does float some passes that he should zip (Rose Bowl INT was a perfect example)...but that just a little QB coaching and mental preparation.

What is most important he that he is generally very accurate and he makes excellent reads even if he doesn't always make the perfect throw.

Fair Enough. I have clocked him at 6-7 seconds many times, just because I was so incredulous at how good the O line was. Maybe I'm chasing windmills. I guess if you know you have the time it's wise to take it and make the right read instead of forcing it. I'm just not sure you can jump from one to the other. And I still think there is an arm strength issue. Most deep balls I have seen from him are down the middle which is a much shorter pass. Of course, Montana didn't have a cannon for an arm, and Brady doesn't really either.

 

[miniMUNCH]

Originally posted by: fallensight
in the 2-3 year stretch, leinart. But mostly because of his supporting cast. I dont think he has all the parts to be a great NFL QB. I'm a college football nut and watched alot of both young and leinart(vandy is never on tv around here, or i would ahve seen more of him) Leinart floats too many passes. Watching the games he trows the balls high and drops them down from above onto the reciever more often than not. He doesnt have a whole lot of 'zip' when he needs to thread the ball in tight. And those floaters will get picked alot more in the NFL from DBs who know how to possition themselves.

In the long run, 5 years+, I'm going to have to go with Young. He has all the physical tools, and contrary to the wonderlic test(which really is about worthless for predicting what will happen, ryan leaf scored more than 10 points higher than steeve young) he does run games well. He needs to improve reading NFL defenses, but that goes for every QB making the jump. The shotgun vs center debate is over rated. Rothlisburger took most of his snaps from the shotgun in college too. And he has those intangibles that make the the great leaders. He elevates the players around him and takes the team onto his back when needed, look at the USC and Ohio State games.

I'm not sold on Cutler. He may be a decent QB, but I just dont see him making a probowl. I just dont see a guy who loses to Middle Tennessee State making it.

In order to adequately critique Leinarts game you have to understand the offensive schemes in which he played...and how USC offense was defended.

First recall 2003-4 when Leinart was throw passes to Williams and Colbert (great college WR's)...the USC passing game was very vertical and Leinart threw fantastically. He cannoned in passed when he needed to...threw the deep ball well...threw with touch...everything. And it was his best statistical year.

2004-5: Enter Reggie to prominence (sp?) and two inexperienced starting WR (Jarrett and Smith). The offense changed, neither Jarrett or smith were real downfield threats for much of the season...passing game less vertical. The running game improved somwhat from 2003-4. Add to that game plan the element of trying to get Reggie into space against LB or SS coverage in the passing. During the orange bowl, USC's passing game went vertical which suprised OK's defense and several occasions. Leinart was great in that game. He didn't force the ball but cashed in on big play opportunities everytime they were presented.

2005-6: Monster running game..really overshadowed the passing game. passing attack roughly the same as 2004-5. Jarrett improved but smith was MIA for a lot of games. USC was generally able to score at will being a little more of ball control offense that big vertical plays in the passing game were not necessary. USC did not throw deep much last year.

 

[HardcoreRobot]

vince ftw

 

[fallensight]

I make no argument against Leinert's touch and accuracy. Its just he leaves those balls in the air so long. In college you can get away with that, most DBs cant make adjustments for spit. Hes awsome on fades and whatnot, its just I vary rarly saw him laser a pass through defenders to the reciever. He's a smart player and keeps within himself. But I think there are some limitations. And I do think he will have a decent career. I just think Vince Young is going to be better player.

 

[Playmaker]

Originally posted by: konichiwa
CUTLER

They lost to Middle Tennessee State on a blocked FG, doesn't really have much to do with it. Considering he played for the doormat of the best football conference in the country and still put up 3000 yards says a lot about his talent when playing with a crack squad of footballers against the future of the NFL.

I wasn't aware Vandy moved to the Big 10.

Thanks for the info.

 

[slpaulson]

" said receiver Jonathan Orr, a sixth-round pick from Washington. "

Wrong UW...

I think Lienert will end up the best, mostly because he is in a decent situation. Cutler has it pretty good too.

 

[imported_Scourge]

Cutler is on, by far, the best team. Cutler actually has a defence to back him up. Cutler has the best coaching staff. Cutler has the best running game. Cutler has the best O-line. Cutlers recievers (Now that Denver has Walker) are as good as anyones. Cutler has the great situation of being able to sit for a year before he has to go out there and start.

Cutler has the best arm. Cutler is moble enough to do what the Broncos need him to do. Cutler is accurate(And he's better than his stats- the team he played for didn't exactly give him time to throw. Nor did his recievers catch the ball very often. I believe they ran in the neighborhood of 5.0 40's, so they didn't get open either.) Cutler didn't score a 7 on the Wonderlic.

Did I say Cutler?

 

[Deeko]

Umm, Cutler is on the best team if you include defense, but I'm talking offense here. You want to tell me Walker/Lelie (if Lelie is even still on the team) is better than Boldin/Fitzgerald? Or how bout this - Ron Dayne over Edgerin James??? Or even this....Jay Cutler over Matt Leinart?

Better on all fronts for the skill positions, although Denver does have a better line.

 

[erikistired]

Originally posted by: Playmaker

Originally posted by: konichiwa
CUTLER

They lost to Middle Tennessee State on a blocked FG, doesn't really have much to do with it. Considering he played for the doormat of the best football conference in the country and still put up 3000 yards says a lot about his talent when playing with a crack squad of footballers against the future of the NFL.

I wasn't aware Vandy moved to the Big 10.

Thanks for the info.

HILARIOUS. no really that's funny.

 

[chuckywang]

The guy with the least amount of risk is Jay Cutler.

 

[Playmaker]

Originally posted by: fisher

Originally posted by: Playmaker

Originally posted by: konichiwa
CUTLER

They lost to Middle Tennessee State on a blocked FG, doesn't really have much to do with it. Considering he played for the doormat of the best football conference in the country and still put up 3000 yards says a lot about his talent when playing with a crack squad of footballers against the future of the NFL.

I wasn't aware Vandy moved to the Big 10.

Thanks for the info.

HILARIOUS. no really that's funny.

Thanks, I'll be here all week.

 

[Playmaker]

Originally posted by: Scourge
Cutler is on, by far, the best team. Cutler actually has a defence to back him up. Cutler has the best coaching staff. Cutler has the best running game. Cutler has the best O-line. Cutlers recievers (Now that Denver has Walker) are as good as anyones. Cutler has the great situation of being able to sit for a year before he has to go out there and start.

Cutler has the best arm. Cutler is moble enough to do what the Broncos need him to do. Cutler is accurate(And he's better than his stats- the team he played for didn't exactly give him time to throw. Nor did his recievers catch the ball very often. I believe they ran in the neighborhood of 5.0 40's, so they didn't get open either.) Cutler didn't score a 7 on the Wonderlic.

Did I say Cutler?

I know you're trying to disparage Young, but Cutler isn't exactly a genius himself. I seem to remember his score being either 26 or 29.

Now, that may not be "borderline retarded" as someone described Young, but he's certainly still an idiot. Have you seen the sample questions?

I know a 20 is supposedly "average," but I would hope a college graduate from a decent school could score well into the upper 30s unless they're a REALLY slow test-taker. The hardest sample questions I've seen don't even compare to the easiest LSAT logic games.

Finally, there are plenty of quarterbacks that scored in and below the teens that haven't had a problem. Being an NFL quarterback isn't rocket surgery.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

Originally posted by: Deeko
Umm, Cutler is on the best team if you include defense, but I'm talking offense here. You want to tell me Walker/Lelie (if Lelie is even still on the team) is better than Boldin/Fitzgerald? Or how bout this - Ron Dayne over Edgerin James??? Or even this....Jay Cutler over Matt Leinart?

Better on all fronts for the skill positions, although Denver does have a better line.

The running game shouldn't matter (I'd take Denver's running game over James any day), however you're right about James being the better back, especially for a QB as he's great when it comes to throwing him the ball.

Fitzgerald has great hands but he isn't really fast, if Leinart doesn't have targets that can get some separation that is where he might find trouble. Some of his passes work in the NCAA but wouldn't work in the NFL, I think he'll be decent but he'll definitely take some time to mature - I'm ceratinly convinced won't be anything like a Brady or Roethlisberger - or even his USC predecessor - Palmer.

 

[imported_Scourge]

Originally posted by: Deeko
Umm, Cutler is on the best team if you include defense, but I'm talking offense here. You want to tell me Walker/Lelie (if Lelie is even still on the team) is better than Boldin/Fitzgerald? Or how bout this - Ron Dayne over Edgerin James??? Or even this....Jay Cutler over Matt Leinart?

Better on all fronts for the skill positions, although Denver does have a better line.

Rod Smith is still on the Broncos. He might be getting old, but he is still a top receiver. Walker/Smith/Lelie is as good a 3 man rotation as anyone- even if Lelie does hold out or whatever, Smith and Walker are comparable to the Bolden Fitz combo. The running game depends much more on the line than on the back, look at what the Broncos did with Mike Anderson and Tatum Bell last year. . . most rushing yards in the NFL by the running backs.(I think. They were top 3 for sure) Atlanta was the only team with more rushing yards, and they have Vick, so it throws a few things off.

Arizonas receivers stats are inflated because Arizona throws the ball more than any other team out there. They are very good receivers, yes, but there are quite a few people who could put up those stats if they get thrown to that much.

The D' makes a huge difference on the way the QB plays the game. Does he have to force throws because every game is a shoot out? Or can he relax and play the game because he knows his defense can stop someone? Hell, look at what Plummer did in Arizona vs. Denver. Some of it is coaching, but most of it is that he has a O-line and a running game and a defense to back him up. You can't just say because Arizonas receivers have better stats and they have a better RB than Denver that they have a better offence. Hell, the Broncos scored 24.7 points per game last season, while Arizona scored 19.4.