What is the major reasons for being against s/s marriages? (religion?, disgusting?, children?, gov benefits ?)
I don't like a portion of my property taxes going to public schools to pay for someone elses damn kids either. I got to pay it anyway. You'll get over it
Hey, thanks for sharing. We all really appreciate you taking time out from your thesis at Harvard to let us bathe in the light of your intellectual glory.
The real problem I have with marriages of this sort is that it is morally reprehensible. Mentally picture bubba doing the nasty. Its not just for prision anymore people. I have known quite a few people around that have been personally effected by thier sexual status. It usually hangs around "They were talking about thier sexuality in the workplace, someone else came in and joked about it, they took it seriously. The non sodomite was then fired for speaking up." So they basically get a different subset of rights in the workplace than everyone else. A straight man/woman would be taken up on charges on sexual harassment. They want special rights and attention because of thier sexual status. When did this become something that was possible? Since when did sexual status change the law and provide for them special rights? All this is happening because it has been pushed around so much everyone is becoming desensitized to the fact that it is a disgusting act. If I can't go to work and talk about sex, then no one else should. In the beginning marriage was a union between a man and a woman, before you know it there will be zooaphiles, and pedaphiles seeking special rights for thier sexual practices. The door is opening for everything is "OK". People need to stand up and start saying that this is not "OK", start taking a stand.
- Jun 6, 2003
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Originally posted by: Fausto
First you have gay friends and now your parents are liberals too huh? Right. I totally believe that. It's okay though, most kids adopt their parents' ideals as their own at first but eventually learn to think for themselves. You could start by rethinking your "Ronnie Raygun was the greatest president of the 20th century" position as that just makes you look like a complete idiot since you were all of three years old when he finished his second term.Originally posted by: daniel1113
Originally posted by: Fausto
It's also a valid one, Opie. People often oppose change to the status quo. Hell, we even went to war with ourselves over slavery and now no one would argue that we should bring it back.
Right. You don't have a point. As usual. You just found a poll that supported one of your usual reactionary positions you learned from mommy and daddy and thought you'd post it in lieu of thinking something up on your own. "I can't seem to win an argument here, so I'll post something from the unassailable FAUX news! That'll show those pinko liberals!"And, I don't have a point. It was just a news article that I thought you all would enjoy. After all, this is the Politics and News board
:cookie;
Wow... that's quite the rant you've got there. Let's see where I should begin... ah yes, your assumption that I "just found a poll that supported one of your usual reactionary positions you learned from mommy and daddy and thought you'd post it in lieu of thinking something up on your own." First, both of my parents are liberals and pro gay marriage. Of course, it was easier for you to attack my family than to actually get to know me. As for me not thinking up something on my own... how can I make up poll results? Oh yeah... that's right... I can't. I just happened to find this one while checking out the daily headlines, and since I like to consider all the information that I can find, I thought that maybe, just maybe, everyone else here would like to see what Americans thought. Silly me.
Um....yeah but this particular topic has been beaten into the ground six ways from sunday. All points and counterpoints have been addressed. So why would you create this post other than for trolling purposes?
Luckily, I don't care if you believe me or not. There is no way for me to prove my parent's beliefs or voting habits to you, much less who my friends are. Of course, you already know that, you just want to make a fight out of a non-issue. I didn't even make a comment in my first post. I just pointed to the news article. You were the one who started, and has continued with, the personal attacks. Who is the troll here, Fausto? Nice try.
LunarRay
Diamond Member
- Mar 2, 2003
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I gather from this post that the Lesbian side of the equation would be OK. I mean they be ladies and all... nothing like trying to induce a lesbian into coming back to the fold and taking her proper place in society. Some of those lesbian ladies are really good looking too. Can you imagine Betty doing the nasty... 'Wow! lets watch that again'.
Anyone who seeks to deny the rights of another based on their view of how the Country ought to morally set up suffers the same fate they seek to invoke when and or if they ease into the minority. The State should be impowered to insure the rights of all people are safe from all other people. We speak of rights here. The right to be as we wish to be and not as someone else thinks we should be. You have control of your likes and wants and can exist in that manner with the comfort of knowing the same Rule of Law that protects you protects them. To the extent you insure their rights you insure your own. This is our protection from the greatest evil... the evil that if one person's rights are lost everyones rights are at risk.
Yeh, well, CAD, you pretty much prove my point about the "M" word. It's too loaded for rational discussion. Putting the question in terms of civil unions would probably tip the scales the other way, which was exactly my point.
As things stand, the only way for gay couples to gain equal rights over property, medical treatment, insurance and a host of other issues is thru marriage. I merely proposed an entirely different way of addressing and looking at it.
As for Wolfdog's POV, referencing gays as sodomites, faggots, queers or similar will generally get you fired, depend on it, just like using the terms beloved patriot, beautiful ray of sunshine, Nixxxx or a host of others. The whole argument reminds me of the domino theory of how to contain communism. We're talking about consenting adults, OK? I think he'd be surprised to find out that gays are just as much against zoophilia and pedophilia as he is, if not moreso, having been lumped in with such for humdreds of years.
Much of the hatred of gays is fear based, as far as I can tell, based on sexual insecurity of those doing the hating. They're afraid they might like if they tried it. As a society, we're terribly repressed in regards to hetero sex, let alone the alternative. None of us really has any choice in what rings our bells, that was somehow determined for us long before we became sexually aware. Gays are a naturally occuring percentage of the human race, and have been all along. Time for us to accept that, and get on with our own lives, let them get on with their own, allow their full participation and contribution to our society.
As things stand, the only way for gay couples to gain equal rights over property, medical treatment, insurance and a host of other issues is thru marriage. I merely proposed an entirely different way of addressing and looking at it.
As for Wolfdog's POV, referencing gays as sodomites, faggots, queers or similar will generally get you fired, depend on it, just like using the terms beloved patriot, beautiful ray of sunshine, Nixxxx or a host of others. The whole argument reminds me of the domino theory of how to contain communism. We're talking about consenting adults, OK? I think he'd be surprised to find out that gays are just as much against zoophilia and pedophilia as he is, if not moreso, having been lumped in with such for humdreds of years.
Much of the hatred of gays is fear based, as far as I can tell, based on sexual insecurity of those doing the hating. They're afraid they might like if they tried it. As a society, we're terribly repressed in regards to hetero sex, let alone the alternative. None of us really has any choice in what rings our bells, that was somehow determined for us long before we became sexually aware. Gays are a naturally occuring percentage of the human race, and have been all along. Time for us to accept that, and get on with our own lives, let them get on with their own, allow their full participation and contribution to our society.
No, you've got it all wrong. I'm not trolling, I'm mocking you and your comical attempts to articulate your dislike of homosexuals. You have yet to type out a single valid point on the subject as far as I can tell. You don't even have a lock on the nature of what it means to be gay despite your many, many gay friends. Perhaps your parents (being the raging liberals that they are) have a gay interior designer you could talk to. I still think you need to take Moonbeam's advice, but make sure to take pictures for us all, okay?Originally posted by: daniel1113
Originally posted by: Fausto
First you have gay friends and now your parents are liberals too huh? Right. I totally believe that. It's okay though, most kids adopt their parents' ideals as their own at first but eventually learn to think for themselves. You could start by rethinking your "Ronnie Raygun was the greatest president of the 20th century" position as that just makes you look like a complete idiot since you were all of three years old when he finished his second term.Originally posted by: daniel1113
Originally posted by: Fausto
It's also a valid one, Opie. People often oppose change to the status quo. Hell, we even went to war with ourselves over slavery and now no one would argue that we should bring it back.
Right. You don't have a point. As usual. You just found a poll that supported one of your usual reactionary positions you learned from mommy and daddy and thought you'd post it in lieu of thinking something up on your own. "I can't seem to win an argument here, so I'll post something from the unassailable FAUX news! That'll show those pinko liberals!"And, I don't have a point. It was just a news article that I thought you all would enjoy. After all, this is the Politics and News board
:cookie;
Wow... that's quite the rant you've got there. Let's see where I should begin... ah yes, your assumption that I "just found a poll that supported one of your usual reactionary positions you learned from mommy and daddy and thought you'd post it in lieu of thinking something up on your own." First, both of my parents are liberals and pro gay marriage. Of course, it was easier for you to attack my family than to actually get to know me. As for me not thinking up something on my own... how can I make up poll results? Oh yeah... that's right... I can't. I just happened to find this one while checking out the daily headlines, and since I like to consider all the information that I can find, I thought that maybe, just maybe, everyone else here would like to see what Americans thought. Silly me.
Um....yeah but this particular topic has been beaten into the ground six ways from sunday. All points and counterpoints have been addressed. So why would you create this post other than for trolling purposes?
Luckily, I don't care if you believe me or not. There is no way for me to prove my parent's beliefs or voting habits to you, much less who my friends are. Of course, you already know that, you just want to make a fight out of a non-issue. I didn't even make a comment in my first post. I just pointed to the news article. You were the one who started, and has continued with, the personal attacks. Who is the troll here, Fausto? Nice try.
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
No, my comment didn't prove anything you said - infact it backed up Fox's reporting on the poll. Unless you are a gallup subscriber you won't be able to see the poll results because i think it is more than 2 weeks old and they available only to members after that period. However if you think you know alot of recent polling data you can take the little quiz they have and get yourself a free 6 month membership. That is how I got mine
Anyway, back to the subject. I don't think you can claim anything and then say it proves your own point
It might be a bit "better" if they proposed "civil unions" but I doubt it'd be much different because people know there really isn't much difference and those that don't like it because of the "marriage" word would most likely dislike it if it was called a "union" as they probably don't condone the lifestyle anyway. It'd be interesting though. But as it sits - you can't say it proves anything except what it was polling for.CkG
- Jun 6, 2003
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Originally posted by: Fausto
No, you've got it all wrong. I'm not trolling, I'm mocking you and your comical attempts to articulate your dislike of homosexuals. You have yet to type out a single valid point on the subject as far as I can tell. You don't even have a lock on the nature of what it means to be gay despite your many, many gay friends. Perhaps your parents (being the raging liberals that they are) have a gay interior designer you could talk to. I still think you need to take Moonbeam's advice, but make sure to take pictures for us all, okay?Originally posted by: daniel1113
Originally posted by: Fausto
First you have gay friends and now your parents are liberals too huh? Right. I totally believe that. It's okay though, most kids adopt their parents' ideals as their own at first but eventually learn to think for themselves. You could start by rethinking your "Ronnie Raygun was the greatest president of the 20th century" position as that just makes you look like a complete idiot since you were all of three years old when he finished his second term.Originally posted by: daniel1113
Originally posted by: Fausto
It's also a valid one, Opie. People often oppose change to the status quo. Hell, we even went to war with ourselves over slavery and now no one would argue that we should bring it back.
Right. You don't have a point. As usual. You just found a poll that supported one of your usual reactionary positions you learned from mommy and daddy and thought you'd post it in lieu of thinking something up on your own. "I can't seem to win an argument here, so I'll post something from the unassailable FAUX news! That'll show those pinko liberals!"And, I don't have a point. It was just a news article that I thought you all would enjoy. After all, this is the Politics and News board
:cookie;
Wow... that's quite the rant you've got there. Let's see where I should begin... ah yes, your assumption that I "just found a poll that supported one of your usual reactionary positions you learned from mommy and daddy and thought you'd post it in lieu of thinking something up on your own." First, both of my parents are liberals and pro gay marriage. Of course, it was easier for you to attack my family than to actually get to know me. As for me not thinking up something on my own... how can I make up poll results? Oh yeah... that's right... I can't. I just happened to find this one while checking out the daily headlines, and since I like to consider all the information that I can find, I thought that maybe, just maybe, everyone else here would like to see what Americans thought. Silly me.
Um....yeah but this particular topic has been beaten into the ground six ways from sunday. All points and counterpoints have been addressed. So why would you create this post other than for trolling purposes?
Luckily, I don't care if you believe me or not. There is no way for me to prove my parent's beliefs or voting habits to you, much less who my friends are. Of course, you already know that, you just want to make a fight out of a non-issue. I didn't even make a comment in my first post. I just pointed to the news article. You were the one who started, and has continued with, the personal attacks. Who is the troll here, Fausto? Nice try.
I didn't realize all gay people were interior designers. I guess that is just another assumption on your behalf. I don't agree with homosexuality, but I don't dislike them. That is just something you concocted. And, as a stated above, I'm not trying to make a point with this thread. It was an interesting poll, especially since so many on this board call those against gay-marriage to be intolerant, anti-American bigots. I guess 66% of Americans must be also be intolerant, anti-American bigots.
Also, I never said that I had "many, many gay friends." I said that "I know quite a few homosexuals, some of which are good friends of mine." Quit mis-quoting me and taking the things I write out of context. In other words, stop trolling.
Originally posted by: daniel1113
Originally posted by: Fausto
No, you've got it all wrong. I'm not trolling, I'm mocking you and your comical attempts to articulate your dislike of homosexuals. You have yet to type out a single valid point on the subject as far as I can tell. You don't even have a lock on the nature of what it means to be gay despite your many, many gay friends. Perhaps your parents (being the raging liberals that they are) have a gay interior designer you could talk to. I still think you need to take Moonbeam's advice, but make sure to take pictures for us all, okay?Originally posted by: daniel1113
Originally posted by: Fausto
First you have gay friends and now your parents are liberals too huh? Right. I totally believe that. It's okay though, most kids adopt their parents' ideals as their own at first but eventually learn to think for themselves. You could start by rethinking your "Ronnie Raygun was the greatest president of the 20th century" position as that just makes you look like a complete idiot since you were all of three years old when he finished his second term.Originally posted by: daniel1113
Originally posted by: Fausto
It's also a valid one, Opie. People often oppose change to the status quo. Hell, we even went to war with ourselves over slavery and now no one would argue that we should bring it back.
Right. You don't have a point. As usual. You just found a poll that supported one of your usual reactionary positions you learned from mommy and daddy and thought you'd post it in lieu of thinking something up on your own. "I can't seem to win an argument here, so I'll post something from the unassailable FAUX news! That'll show those pinko liberals!"And, I don't have a point. It was just a news article that I thought you all would enjoy. After all, this is the Politics and News board
:cookie;
Wow... that's quite the rant you've got there. Let's see where I should begin... ah yes, your assumption that I "just found a poll that supported one of your usual reactionary positions you learned from mommy and daddy and thought you'd post it in lieu of thinking something up on your own." First, both of my parents are liberals and pro gay marriage. Of course, it was easier for you to attack my family than to actually get to know me. As for me not thinking up something on my own... how can I make up poll results? Oh yeah... that's right... I can't. I just happened to find this one while checking out the daily headlines, and since I like to consider all the information that I can find, I thought that maybe, just maybe, everyone else here would like to see what Americans thought. Silly me.
Um....yeah but this particular topic has been beaten into the ground six ways from sunday. All points and counterpoints have been addressed. So why would you create this post other than for trolling purposes?
Luckily, I don't care if you believe me or not. There is no way for me to prove my parent's beliefs or voting habits to you, much less who my friends are. Of course, you already know that, you just want to make a fight out of a non-issue. I didn't even make a comment in my first post. I just pointed to the news article. You were the one who started, and has continued with, the personal attacks. Who is the troll here, Fausto? Nice try.
Nope, that was what we adults call "humor".
Right.
Okay, I'll spell this one out for you. You and the others opposed to gay marriage have yet to come up with any real reasons to be opposed to it. The harm to adopted children, the insurance issues, the (this one kills me) affront to nature and evolution, "the bible says it's bad", "the next thing will be bigamy, incest, pedophila, necrophila, etc".....all complete and utter crap. If you don't have a sound reason for being opposed to a thing, your reasoning can only be rooted in personal prejudice. See where I'm going with this?
Crux of that little issue: assuming you're not lying about gay acquaintances, you obviously haven't had anything beyond a cursory conversation with any of them. Being gay is not a "choice" like having a burger for dinner is a choice. Your gross oversimplification of what it means to be gay is a disservice to these associates of yours. In all seriousness, talk to one or two of them about how/when they knew they were gay. You may be quite surprised.
- Jun 6, 2003
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I guess 66% of Americans must "be rooted in personal prejudice." That's 168,853,143 prejudiced Americans.
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
OK, here is some gallup polling data located here.(I'm not sure you can get to the link unless you are a member though.
*note italicized part is mine*
So as far as calling it a "union" or something other than a marriages would "tip the scales the other way", I think you are wrong and so does gallup's polling data.
CkG
LunarRay
Diamond Member
- Mar 2, 2003
- 9,993
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What would it be if a lesbian married a gay guy? Just for the rights and all that. then if their old partners were also married they could have affairs and get all the protection and legal status.. all it takes is four willing folks to make it happen.. heck they could live in duplexs so once they enterered they could go to the other unit and be happy again..
Who CARES what the majority of Americans think?
Probably the same majority who believed Iraq had something to do with 9/11.
Or terrorism.
Even after Bush set them straight.
They should mind their own business.
Probably the same majority who believed Iraq had something to do with 9/11.
Or terrorism.
Even after Bush set them straight.
They should mind their own business.
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
- Jun 6, 2003
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I agree in that "If a majority be united by a common interest, the rights of the minority will be insecure." However, in a Democracy, you cannot completely ignore the will of the majority.
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True, but this issue is unlikely to come up before the people as an up or down vote.
The judicial branch will likely decide it.
Congress will try to amend the constitution, but that's an uphill road.
The people, and what they think, won't really matter.
LunarRay
Diamond Member
- Mar 2, 2003
- 9,993
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This is another of the famous 14th Amendment issues.. 'Equal Protection'... This Amendment and how it has been read to mean just about everything protects just about everything that does not directly step on the rights of someone else. (Directly) Since you cannot equally protect the rights of Gays without affording them all the rights of Hetros you must afford them the rights they seek. I see it as a simple issue to resolve. You may not like it but, they may not like not being afforded the same rights as you. We do not live in a society under the rule of God. We live with freedom to live under the rule of God or a rock or tree or whatever we choose.. this is ultimate freedom.. and don't you think we ought to have it this way? It may disgust you in principal but, you are not being forced to either watch or participate just as the church or place of worship does not have armed folks ordering you in. You have freedom to chose and whether or not they do has not to do with the extending of rights to them.. they are people and, therefore, deserve what other people have the right to have or do.
IMO
IMO
Well, since majorities are so important to some of you, here's a poll that demonstrates a majority:
Polls Show Mass. Supports Gay Marriage
Polls Show Mass. Supports Gay Marriage
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Looks like they cancel each other out.
6.4M vs 291.5M....I don't think they cancel each other out
CkG
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