Majority of electronic voting machines rigged, well... better than that?

[dank69]

I think it's important for voting systems to be secure & honest. It's equally important that they be perceived as such, something that purely electronic voting will never provide.

If all the recent revelations about the NSA tell us anything at all, it should be that all digital information is fundamentally insecure. That level of confidence is insufficient wrt voting.

We need processes that are above reasonable suspicion & controversy. Having a paper trail creates a higher level of security that people can understand, advancing that goal.

How hard would it be to have every voting machine assign a random number to each voter, give that voter that number on a piece of paper when they vote, and then list all voting info for each random number on a public website?

So say I am random number 3355762, I can go to the website and see that number 3355762 voted for candidates x y and z. Everyone can see that 3355762 voted that way but nobody knows that 3355762 is me, except for me. This way we can visually see how everyone voted and every individual can verify that their vote was recorded properly.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

LOL, you are ridiculous. BTW from wiki:

You live in a fantasy world it seems. Democrats redrew the Illinois districts in 2011 to take the 17th from Shilling (which they overpacked at 60% to assure his defeat) and then went on to screw Republicans in all of their other controlled districts except one. LOL, if anyone is ridiculous in portraying Democrats as 'fair-minded', it's you.

http://humanevents.com/2011/12/16/illinois-republicans-face-gerrymandered-redistricting-map/

The last hope of Illinois Republicans that they might be saved from a redistricting plan that endangers all but one of their nine U.S. representatives was dashed yesterday, as a federal court upheld the plan enacted by the Democrat-controlled legislature and signed by Democratic Gov. Pat Quinn.

 

[dank69]

You live in a fantasy world it seems. Democrats redrew the Illinois districts in 2011 to take the 17th from Shilling (which they overpacked at 60% to assure his defeat) and then went on to screw Republicans in all of their other controlled districts except one. LOL, if anyone is ridiculous in portraying Democrats as 'fair-minded', it's you.

http://humanevents.com/2011/12/16/illinois-republicans-face-gerrymandered-redistricting-map/

I could have used one of the many links to liberal biased sites to back up my side as well but I figured you'd take thinkprogress links as seriously as I'll take that "powerful conservative voices" link you have there. Of course Republicans are crying about how the redrawing of lines harms them. That doesn't automatically make it gerrymandering.

It takes an exceptionally twisted mind to argue that this:

is more gerrymandered than this:

Also, please note that I never claimed Democrats are "fair-minded."

 

[Jhhnn]

How hard would it be to have every voting machine assign a random number to each voter, give that voter that number on a piece of paper when they vote, and then list all voting info for each random number on a public website?

So say I am random number 3355762, I can go to the website and see that number 3355762 voted for candidates x y and z. Everyone can see that 3355762 voted that way but nobody knows that 3355762 is me, except for me. This way we can visually see how everyone voted and every individual can verify that their vote was recorded properly.

That doesn't accommodate recounts. Totals remain unverifiable. If anybody wants to sell their vote, it gives them a receipt to present to the buyer.

Paper ballots provide a level of confidence unattainable by purely electronic means. Even the old style mechanical flipper machines provided a much higher level of confidence.

We don't need the controversy created by electronic voting.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Also, please note that I never claimed Democrats are "fair-minded."

As we can plainly see, they aren't.

 

[dank69]

That doesn't accommodate recounts. Totals remain unverifiable. If anybody wants to sell their vote, it gives them a receipt to present to the buyer.

Paper ballots provide a level of confidence unattainable by purely electronic means. Even the old style mechanical flipper machines provided a much higher level of confidence.

We don't need the controversy created by electronic voting.

How could totals remain unverified if all votes are made public on a website? You could even get a printout right there so you could verify that it matches what you want before you do a final submit.

 

[Cozarkian]

Currently Elected officials from the two parted will actually collaborate to benefit themselves.

Conyling party to minority party: "here is our redistributing plan. It preserves our power but also makes sure none of you will gave competive districts n the next election. Would you like us to make it all of the districts more competive?"

Minority rlesponse: "looks good to me, but just so you know, I will gave to bash the plan in public to avoid a primAry challenger."

 

[unixwizzard]

I think it's expected for the majority party to push their advantage somewhat, but going beyond a certain point defies common decency & respect- not just wrt the opposition, but also wrt the will of the people.

hahahaha.. "common decency" ... hahahaha.. "respect"... hahahahaha

you forget.. these are politicians we're talking about.. :awe:

 

[who?]

Don't slide your finger on a touch screen voting machine. Only touch the screen when you want to select something.

 

[nickqt]

Gerrymandering allows the politicians to select their constituents, rather than the constituents selecting their representatives. It's why Congressional Approval can sit at 8% while 92% of representatives are re-elected.

 

[Jhhnn]

How could totals remain unverified if all votes are made public on a website? You could even get a printout right there so you could verify that it matches what you want before you do a final submit.

You may have a point. OTOH, the whole idea can impact voter anonymity, given that all digital web traffic is fundamentally insecure.

Why bother? Why tempt the law of unintended consequences? Why introduce new complications & uncertainties to such a vital process?

It's not like like I'm a Luddite- I just want the original votes to exist as the voters created them. Hell, I wouldn't object if we want to run ballots thru an electronic reader at the precinct level & send the numbers instantly across the web to some great vote tabulating mothership that anybody can watch from their computer. Just so long as we have the original paperwork to keep everybody happy & honest.

 

[dank69]

You may have a point. OTOH, the whole idea can impact voter anonymity, given that all digital web traffic is fundamentally insecure.

Why bother? Why tempt the law of unintended consequences? Why introduce new complications & uncertainties to such a vital process?

It's not like like I'm a Luddite- I just want the original votes to exist as the voters created them. Hell, I wouldn't object if we want to run ballots thru an electronic reader at the precinct level & send the numbers instantly across the web to some great vote tabulating mothership that anybody can watch from their computer. Just so long as we have the original paperwork to keep everybody happy & honest.

I wouldn't have the results post online in real time. On top of that, there wouldn't be any personal info anyway. Just your random number and your choices.

I understand the desire to have the paperwork, but I think that can still be tampered with.

 

[Jhhnn]

I wouldn't have the results post online in real time. On top of that, there wouldn't be any personal info anyway. Just your random number and your choices.

I understand the desire to have the paperwork, but I think that can still be tampered with.

Should I use Tor? Think about it.

 

[MongGrel]

welcome to gerrymandering.. something that political parties in the US have been doing since the early 1800's..

it's not a Republican only thing, nor is it a Democrat only thing.. it's just something any party will do or try to do when they have control of a state's legislature..

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/231865/gerrymandering

This.

 

[dank69]

Should I use Tor? Think about it.

I'm not understanding your point. I'm not suggesting we vote online. I'm suggesting that the voting machines generate a random number and attach it to your vote, and then give you your random number on a ticket or something. Then all results get posted to a public website where I can look and see that my votes match my number. With paperwork, how do I know my ballot didn't fall into a fireplace before it got counted?

 

[werepossum]

welcome to gerrymandering.. something that political parties in the US have been doing since the early 1800's..

it's not a Republican only thing, nor is it a Democrat only thing.. it's just something any party will do or try to do when they have control of a state's legislature..

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/231865/gerrymandering

Yep. Initially it was intended to give some political power to blacks, so that instead of being a minority in many districts they would be majorities in a few. Of course, like any noble goal it was quickly twisted into something that protects the power of those in power.

 

[nickqt]

Yep. Initially it was intended to give some political power to blacks, so that instead of being a minority in many districts they would be majorities in a few. Of course, like any noble goal it was quickly twisted into something that protects the power of those in power.

Initially?

Gerrymandering is named after a Governor in MA from 1812. It has nothing to do with blacks.

 

[werepossum]

Initially?

Gerrymandering is named after a Governor in MA from 1812. It has nothing to do with blacks.

Actually it predates Gerry. I suppose I should say instead that it gained legitimacy as a way to grant blacks some political power.

http://education-portal.com/academy/lesson/gerrymandering-definition-history-types-examples.html

Definition
North Carolina's 12th Congressional District, shown in the picture below, looks kind of like a long, thin blob that dots across the state. The district runs awkwardly along Interstate 85, sometimes no wider than the highway itself, and other times wide and bulky. The district was so awkwardly drawn because state leaders wanted to create a predominantly African American congressional district. The problem was that most African Americans didn't live together in a distinct geographic district. Instead, the majority of African Americans lived in cities along Interstate 85. Why would state legislatures draw a congressional district in such an odd way?

The answer is because of a political process called gerrymandering.

The 12th Congressional District of North Carolina was drawn awkwardly to create a majority-minority African American district.
null
North Carolina's 12th District is a prime example of gerrymandering. Gerrymandering refers to the practice where state legislatures draw congressional districts in an awkward way in order to increase the likelihood of certain political parties or interest groups winning or losing elections. In the case of North Carolina's 12th Congressional District, the state legislature purposely drew the district this way to ensure that the district had a majority of minority voters (in this case, it was a majority of African-American voters).

Thus my point, that there is a legitimate side to it.

Today we've probably advanced enough that we'd all be better if Congressional districts were drawn in rectangular grids each the same fraction of the state's dimensions. If a state is 400 miles EW by 100 miles NS and has seven Congressional districts, each district begins life 57.1428 miles EW by 100 miles NS. Starting from the east border, each district's width is shifted east or west until it contains exactly 1/7 of the population. Every ten years, redraw its districts to begin as 400 miles EW by 14,2857 miles NS. Now every ten years the incumbents aren't and have to sell themselves all over again, and every Congressman represents a multiracial mix of urban and rural voters without any party getting to draw themselves an advantage.