Major U.S. Internet Providers Accused of Deliberately Slowing Traffic

[Wonderful Pork]

Netflix wants to dump all that traffic on the ISPs without paying for it.

Fuck them. Notice when they pay for the traffic they are dumping (which during peak evening times can be as much as 45% of all ISP traffic) the speeds improved 65%, as would be expected. The future of the Internet is here, where streaming video is a high quality Internet experience.

It sure seems like upgrading infrastructure happens like magic, doesn't it? I mean speeds increased 65% as soon as the ink on the contract dried...not months later after ordering new hardware and installing it.

Its pure profiteering. Comcast has the capacity to allow for better speeds, but it throttled till it got paid. And then it immediately removed the restriction.

Switch to common carrier status.

 

[spidey07]

It sure seems like upgrading infrastructure happens like magic, doesn't it? I mean speeds increased 65% as soon as the ink on the contract dried...not months later after ordering new hardware and installing it.

Its pure profiteering. Comcast has the capacity to allow for better speeds, but it throttled till it got paid. And then it immediately removed the restriction.

Switch to common carrier status.

When you change peering to get around congestion, it tends to happen pretty quickly.

Comcast has been constantly upgrading their network and providing more comcastic speed for no increase in price.

You have seen the future of the Internet - MUCH better streaming video performance. You all want that, so stop fighting it.

 

[surfsatwerk]

comcastic speed

:|

 

[spidey07]

:|

Ranked in the top 5 for all netflix subscribers in terms of average sustained speeds.

I'd call that pretty dam Comcastic. There's speed a plenty when you switch to Xfinity!

 

[MarkXIX]

When you change peering to get around congestion, it tends to happen pretty quickly.

Comcast has been constantly upgrading their network and providing more comcastic speed for no increase in price.

You have seen the future of the Internet - MUCH better streaming video performance. You all want that, so stop fighting it.

Yeah, but here's the deal, I don't give a shit at the end of the day as a customer unless I'm getting shitty service for things that I pay for.

If I pay for Comcast to provide me with my paid for Netflix service, I want both to function to my level of expectation as a customer. I don't really give a shit how much profit Comcast eats upgrading their network to keep giving me what they promised and what I've paid for.

The fallacy here is that all appearances indicate that Comcast intentionally degraded service to Netflix strictly as a means to get more money out of them. At no point has Comcast indicated that they were losing money or customers because Netflix service to it's customers was degrading the experience for everyone. Even then, it's Comcasts responsibility to keep their customers happy.

The problem truly lies in the easy to reach conclusion that Netflix is playing in Comcast's enterainment sandbox, so they're leveraging their ISP mini-monopolies to squeeze a competitor and they've put their customers in the middle. That's bullshit and it's wrong. You know as well as I do how easy it is to shape and engineer traffic congestion with a few keystrokes at the right connection points. This isn't about horsepower or infrastructure as much as it's about control and controlling competition through mini-monopolies.

 

[MarkXIX]

Ranked in the top 5 for all netflix subscribers in terms of average sustained speeds. *

* Survey taken between 23FEB14 and 01APR14

 

[spidey07]

So why did Netflix pay Comcast if they didn't see the value in it?

And prove your accusation of "throttling".

 

[MarkXIX]

So why did Netflix pay Comcast if they didn't see the value in it?

And prove your accusation of "throttling".

Because they had no other choice? Netflix had customers to provide an acceptable level of service to and Comcast owned a good portion of those customers as a service provider. That's pretty damn simple.

Basic research indicates that customers of all levels of knowledge became very vocal on their negative experiences with Netflix when their ISP was Comcast and then overnight, after a deal was cut, things got better? That's pretty damn simple to understand.

Yeah, I'll get right on pulling those switch/router configs from Comcast gear....have those to you shortly....

Two things in this whole discussion have been sacrificed, customer service and the truth.

 

[spidey07]

But customer service has improved remarkably? You can't deny that simple fact. It's a win/win for consumers. The future of the Internet is high quality streaming video, and it's starting to arrive.

 

[MarkXIX]

But customer service has improved remarkably? You can't deny that simple fact. It's a win/win for consumers. The future of the Internet is high quality streaming video, and it's starting to arrive.

Since when has customer service improved remarkably? Since 23FEB14? Since Comcast cherry picked their last customer survey results from obscurity to manage their PR message?

No one's drinking that Kool-aid...

 

[spidey07]

Since when has customer service improved remarkably? Since 23FEB14? Since Comcast cherry picked their last customer survey results from obscurity to manage their PR message?

No one's drinking that Kool-aid...

Data comes from Netflix, not comcast. Netflix user experience is much better for comcast customers now that there is a direct peer between netflix and comcast. 65% faster. That is also called remarkably better customer experience and service.

http://www.theverge.com/2014/4/14/5613280/netflix-streaming-speeds-on-comcast-65-percent-faster

49
inShare

Netflix customers on Comcast are already seeing the benefits of a controversial pact between the streaming service and cable provider. Comcast jumped five spots in Netflix's ranking of ISP performance for the month of March. It now sits in fifth place, delivering an average streaming speed of 2.5Mbps — up from the pitiful 1.15Mbps average Comcast delivered to Netflix subscribers in January.

"This month’s rankings are a great illustration of how performance can improve when ISPs work to connect directly to Netflix," said Netflix. It's also a great illustration of what happens when Netflix pays off cable providers to speed things up: Comcast now charts above Verizon FiOS and even Time Warner Cable, the very company it's hoping to snatch up in the coming months.

"We are dedicated to delivering a great streaming experience and invest in continually improving that experience," Netflix said, largely ignoring the controversy and complaints that surrounded the Comcast deal. That agreement may set a painful precedent, but the company seems unfazed. "Part of that investment is working with ISPs to make Netflix delivery easy and to avoid congestion."

 

[WilliamM2]

Told you guys over 10 years ago only way to get unfettered Internet is to leave the U.S.

So leave already...

 

[JujuFish]

So why did Netflix pay Comcast if they didn't see the value in it?

And prove your accusation of "throttling".

You just proved it. Good job.

 

[John Connor]

Back in the 1800's it was Carnegie, Edison and Rockefeller to name a few. Now it's the big ISPs and M$, Apple, etc. Microsoft had to change when Bill Gates was called to congress and I'm sure the ISPs will be called to Congress as well.

Funny, someone mentioned that they need to fall under the utility label. Well, when we first got Comcast the tap was behind us in the neighbors yard and they had a dog and were not too kind to the tech who needed access to the tap. The tech told me that since Comcast provides phone service they could kick down the gate to get access to the tap since they are a utility. We have Comcast voice. So Comcast is a utility. Why doesn't Congress treat them as such?

 

[child of wonder]

"Today Yellow Freight company reached an agreement with each state cutting down the middle of the country, from Minnesota to Texas, to allow their freight trucks access to interstates traversing each state. Prior to the agreement, each state had lowered the speed limit specifically for Yellow Freight trucks only to a mere 35 mph, which was causing untimely delays in east coast states receiving goods shipped from states in the west.

Yellow Freight paid each state a sum of $10M which the states claim will be used for 'infrastructure upgrades' to improve the interstate systems. After the agreement was signed, workers could be seen in each state removing the 'Yellow Freight truck Speed Limit 35 mph' signs on the interstate roads.

Oklahoma governor Mary Fallin lauded the deal as beneficial for everyone:

'Oklahoma has been constantly upgrading their roads and providing more Oklatastic speed for no increase in price. You have seen the future of the Interstate - MUCH better freight truck performance!'"

 

[surfsatwerk]

Oklatastic speed

 

[MarkXIX]

Data comes from Netflix, not comcast.

News at six! Hostages say their lives have drastically improved after being released due to a ransom being paid.

Look, I just think the whole damn thing stinks and each side can defend their ground ad infinitum. Bottom line, customers are getting the shaft at some point in this thing...

 

[spidey07]

That's not what happened at all. Netflix and comcast decided to peer directly with each other. The result of that is increased throughput for comcast subscribers which is the typical result of such an agreement.

Comcast customers are happy
Netflix is happy.

That is called a WIN/WIN for everybody.

 

[spidey07]

News at six! Hostages say their lives have drastically improved after being released due to a ransom being paid.

Look, I just think the whole damn thing stinks and each side can defend their ground ad infinitum. Bottom line, customers are getting the shaft at some point in this thing...

Then I'd like you to explain how the customer is getting the shaft in this in anyway?

Netflix paid to reach comcast subscribers through other interconnects. Instead of paying cogent or level3 they are paying comcast directly.

Costs to netflix customers doesn't increase, netflix bottom line isn't impacted, customers get more reliable video.

win, win, win all around.

 

[MarkXIX]

Then I'd like you to explain how the customer is getting the shaft in this in anyway?

Netflix paid to reach comcast subscribers through other interconnects. Instead of paying cogent or level3 they are paying comcast directly.

Costs to netflix customers doesn't increase, netflix bottom line isn't impacted, customers get more reliable video.

win, win, win all around.

Except for that period of time when those same customers were held hostage with shitty service they were paying twice for (once to ISP and once to Netflix). I suspect you don't want to get that point though as your mind is made up.

How can you possibly say Netflix bottom line isn't impacted when it is readily apparent that they've now paid additional money to provide the same service to their customers? If it was so "good" for Netflix, why do they continue to publicly disagree with the fact that they had to do it to begin with? If it were truly a "win, win, win" why is one of the winners still seemingly pissed off at winning?

 

[spidey07]

Except for that period of time when those same customers were held hostage with shitty service they were paying twice for (once to ISP and once to Netflix). I suspect you don't want to get that point though as your mind is made up.

How can you possibly say Netflix bottom line isn't impacted when it is readily apparent that they've now paid additional money to provide the same service to their customers? If it was so "good" for Netflix, why do they continue to publicly disagree with the fact that they had to do it to begin with? If it were truly a "win, win, win" why is one of the winners still seemingly pissed off at winning?

It's not additional expense, that money was going to a different provider to reach comcast. Netflix simply cut out the middle man. So, netflix makes the same or MORE money (it's likely comcast offered better rates, hence why they took the deal), consumers get 65% more throughput, consumer prices don't rise one bit but customer experience improves dramatically - yes, that's by definition win/win.

This article may help you understand how the Internet works. There is so much misinformation being "reported" it's sickening.

http://blog.streamingmedia.com/2014...etflix-comcast-deal-getting-basics-wrong.html

 

[Aikouka]

Netflix wants to dump all that traffic on the ISPs without paying for it.

(1) Netflix pays their own provider to handle the data transmissions. Netflix should not be liable for the data past their servers.
(2) I, the Comcast customer, am requesting the data.

Data comes from Netflix, not comcast. Netflix user experience is much better for comcast customers now that there is a direct peer between netflix and comcast. 65% faster. That is also called remarkably better customer experience and service.

Do you even realize how Comcast was screwing over its own customers for the purpose of looking for an extra revenue stream? I don't think you realize that it was more than just Netflix. Any data that I requested that would come through the same ports as Netflix would end up hampered, and I had services that were essentially rendered useless between 4PM and 12AM every day. Guess what? They work fine now!

But, sure... it's okay to screw over consumers since their only choice is your fast service or some ridiculously awful AT&T DSL.

 

[spidey07]

(1) Netflix pays their own provider to handle the data transmissions. Netflix should not be liable for the data past their servers.
(2) I, the Comcast customer, am requesting the data.



Do you even realize how Comcast was screwing over its own customers for the purpose of looking for an extra revenue stream? I don't think you realize that it was more than just Netflix. Any data that I requested that would come through the same ports as Netflix would end up hampered, and I had services that were essentially rendered useless between 4PM and 12AM every day. Guess what? They work fine now!

But, sure... it's okay to screw over consumers since their only choice is your fast service or some ridiculously awful AT&T DSL.

I assume you have a packet trace showing loss, TCP windows closing, high jitter or any way to prove your accusations? I need proof, not non-technical anecdotal stories.

It's more likely there was congestion on the provider netflix used to reach comcast. Netflix got around the congestion meaning a win for consumers.

And now guess what? Cogent/L3 lost a big revenue stream so of course they're going to make a stink. This isn't the first time they've played this game. In fact they're famous for it.

 

[Markbnj]

Netflix wants to dump all that traffic on the ISPs without paying for it.

Fuck them. Notice when they pay for the traffic they are dumping (which during peak evening times can be as much as 45% of all ISP traffic) the speeds improved 65%, as would be expected. The future of the Internet is here, where streaming video is a high quality Internet experience.

Wow, yeah, that's a cogent analysis. Netflix isn't dumping anything on anyone. Every bit they send me has been requested by my client. Even as a heavy Netflix user I have never come anywhere near Comcast's data caps. So if I set up a few clients to just find and stream random videos off the net all day until I hit the bandwidth caps every month, who would owe Comcast more money then? You're apparently saying that what I pay them doesn't cover their costs, despite their consistent and enviable profitability.

That argument is such utter one-sided horsecrap that it basically qualifies as propaganda.

 

[spidey07]

Wow, yeah, that's a cogent analysis. Netflix isn't dumping anything on anyone. Every bit they send me has been requested by my client. Even as a heavy Netflix user I have never come anywhere near Comcast's data caps. So if I set up a few clients to just find and stream random videos off the net all day until I hit the bandwidth caps every month, who would owe Comcast more money then? You're apparently saying that what I pay them doesn't cover their costs, despite their consistent and enviable profitability.

That argument is such utter one-sided horsecrap that it basically qualifies as propaganda.

Netflix pays their providers to deliver the content you requested. That's how it should work and always has. It's when netflix expects to have a one sided peering relationship where they can dump as much traffic onto a network without bringing anything else to the agreement such as other network reachability or 50/50 traffic split without paying that a huge problem arises in that they aren't paying for their traffic.

Internet isn't free, and you don't just get to dump as much as you want onto it without paying.