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Major Carriers Souring On iPhone; Apple Found Guilty Of Price Fixing

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WelshBloke said:
It seems like every huge technology firm is doomed if you listen to forums. Apple, Microsoft, Google, Samsung, Nokia, Blackberry (actually those last two might be) all doomed by forum experts. 😀
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The following "official" deathwatch threads exists...
RIMM: http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2153159&highlight=deathwatch
Apple: http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2260660&highlight=deathwatch
Netflix: http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2322416&highlight=deathwatch
T-Mobile: http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2146687&highlight=deathwatch
AMD : http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2276314&highlight=deathwatch
Barnes & Noble: http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2217761&highlight=deathwatch

The following "unofficial" deathwatch(meaning the OP never titled it as such but it essentially is based on their posts and posting history) threads exists...
Samsung: http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2329286
Microsoft: http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2258910&highlight=deathwatch

I'm sure I missed one for Motorola, Nokia, and others.
 
cronos said:
There were always Apple haters who talked crap about Apple products, but we didn't hear 'Apple's down' every few months until after Steve Jobs died. So I was basically disagreeing that he said 'five years', because it's more like 'two years' 🙂
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Are you kidding? People have been predicting Apple's imminent doom (for one completely wrong reason or another) since day one.
 
Zaap said:
Are you kidding? People have been predicting Apple's imminent doom (for one completely wrong reason or another) since day one.
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I guess I wasn't in the club then. Like I said, I was aware that there are a lot of people who always talked crap (haters gonna hate), but I didn't think they actually 'predicted' Apple's doom.
 
A net income of $6.87 billion? Uh-oh, that's significantly less than Samsung's net income.

Interesting how much the market has changed since late 2011 and early 2012. Back then Apple really ruled the profit war, now it seems it's pretty much even with Samsung... and it seems Samsung may be taking over the profit war this year.

Apple really needs to deliver well in the next iPhone to remain competitive. No more of this 4 inch clumsy elongated, thin design bs.
 
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Germanic said:
A net income of $6.87 billion? Uh-oh, that's significantly less than Samsung's net income.

Interesting how much the market has changed since late 2011 and early 2012. Back then Apple really ruled the profit war, now it seems it's pretty much even with Samsung... and it seems Samsung may be taking over the profit war this year.

Apple really needs to deliver well in the next iPhone to remain competitive. No more of this 4 inch clumsy elongated, thin design bs.
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Does it matter which one is making the most? They are both doing far better than the rest of the market they are in.
They are probably the only two smartphone hardware manufacturers that are guaranteed to be around in a few more years.
 
cronos said:
There were always Apple haters who talked crap about Apple products, but we didn't hear 'Apple's down' every few months until after Steve Jobs died. So I was basically disagreeing that he said 'five years', because it's more like 'two years' 🙂
Click to expand...
My older cousin is a die hard Apple fan and has only owned iPhones since the original. He blames all Apple's problems today on Timothy Cook commenting/lamenting that "If Steve Jobs was alive, he wouldn't have made the iPad mini", or that "Apple wouldn't have had this debacle with it's maps", or that "Apple would have remained at 3.5' screen size rather than trying to follow Android" and many other crazy comments that I have long since forgotten.

Steve Jobs never seem to get blame on anything within the past 5-7 years from him.
 
WelshBloke said:
Does it matter which one is making the most? They are both doing far better than the rest of the market they are in.
They are probably the only two smartphone hardware manufacturers that are guaranteed to be around in a few more years.
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Not really, just interesting because Apple was a huge money maker in 2011 and 2012.

Now Apple's share price dived and their profit share is declining everyday as we speak.

I'm more afraid that people will start buying supposedly "good looking" Chinese phones from Huawei and ZTE and then finding out they're buggy and useless. I really hope HTC, Nokia and LG stay in the smartphone race because they offer some interesting products.
 
Germanic said:
Not really, just interesting because Apple was a huge money maker in 2011 and 2012.

Now Apple's share price dived and their profit share is declining everyday as we speak.
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They are still making insane amounts of money in a market that most are struggling just to make a profit in.

Germanic said:
I'm more afraid that people will start buying supposedly "good looking" Chinese phones from Huawei and ZTE and then finding out they're buggy and useless. I really hope HTC, Nokia and LG stay in the smartphone race because they offer some interesting products.
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It'll be interesting to see if the "new" Chinese manufacturers do well in the west. I doubt that they will be significantly buggier than the traditional manufacturers. The internal hardware on phones is pretty standard and the Chinese have got a lot of experience at putting them together.
 
WelshBloke said:
Does it matter which one is making the most? They are both doing far better than the rest of the market they are in.
They are probably the only two smartphone hardware manufacturers that are guaranteed to be around in a few more years.
Click to expand...
Not really.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2329286
But based on Dari's post there, he claims that if Apple is in trouble then Samsung is in even more trouble than Apple is because their business is vertically integrated and has more risk.
That is of course is if you believe what he says. 😉
 
I'm impressed Apple and Samsung have avoided a race to the bottom, erasing profit margins. As the industry matures, I suspect this will be inevitable.
 
lothar said:
My older cousin is a die hard Apple fan and has only owned iPhones since the original. He blames all Apple's problems today on Timothy Cook commenting/lamenting that "If Steve Jobs was alive, he wouldn't have made the iPad mini", or that "Apple wouldn't have had this debacle with it's maps", or that "Apple would have remained at 3.5' screen size rather than trying to follow Android" and many other crazy comments that I have long since forgotten.

Steve Jobs never seem to get blame on anything within the past 5-7 years from him.
Click to expand...

Precisely! This is exactly why I made that comment above. The 'doom' talk didn't really start until after Steve Jobs died :biggrin:
 
lothar said:
Not really.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2329286
But based on Dari's post there, he claims that if Apple is in trouble then Samsung is in even more trouble than Apple is because their business is vertically integrated and has more risk.
Click to expand...

I'd argue that neither apple nor Samsung are in any trouble at all. It's a tough market and if it gets tougher then Apple and Samsung will come out stronger at the expense of the weaker firms. That's ignoring the wild cards of the new (to us) Chinese manufacturers. It could be that they will come out of it all on top. They certainly have the manufacturing expertise and a large home market.

lothar said:
That is of course is if you believe what he says. 😉
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I don't. He tends to trim the facts to fit his bias a bit too much.
 
WelshBloke said:
They are still making insane amounts of money in a market that most are struggling just to make a profit in.



It'll be interesting to see if the "new" Chinese manufacturers do well in the west. I doubt that they will be significantly buggier than the traditional manufacturers. The internal hardware on phones is pretty standard and the Chinese have got a lot of experience at putting them together.
Click to expand...

The main problem for these Chinese phones will be the UI and developer support. Also they will face enormous difficulty with marketing since they are tiny compared to Apple and Samsung in terms of size and profits.

The Oppo Find 5 has decent specs but the UI is just ugly and hideous.
 
Germanic said:
The main problem for these Chinese phones will be the UI and developer support. Also they will face enormous difficulty with marketing since they are tiny compared to Apple and Samsung in terms of size and profits.

The Oppo Find 5 has decent specs but the UI is just ugly and hideous.
Click to expand...

The easiest solution for them would be to slap a stock build of android on them or an MIUI build.
 
lothar said:
Huawei and ZTE won't generate any meaningful sales in the united states due to all this info: http://www.zdnet.com/dont-trust-huawei-and-zte-us-congressional-committee-warns-7000005378/
Aren't they already under investigation in Europe as well due to product dumping and Chinese government subsidies? or is that something else?
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Alright this has just turned me off from all Chinese smartphone products.

Not being culturally or racially biased, but anything that's tied to government agenda is a big no-no for me.
 
lothar said:
Huawei and ZTE won't generate any meaningful sales in the united states due to all this info: http://www.zdnet.com/dont-trust-huawei-and-zte-us-congressional-committee-warns-7000005378/
Aren't they already under investigation in Europe as well due to product dumping and Chinese government subsidies? or is that something else?
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Meh.

It's not like I trust our governments and security services at the moment anyway.

Also all the current hardware is made in China already so I don't really see how just adding a brand name changes much.
That article just sounds like trade protectionism to be honest.
 
WelshBloke said:
Meh.

It's not like I trust our governments and security services at the moment anyway.

Also all the current hardware is made in China already so I don't really see how just adding a brand name changes much.
That article just sounds like trade protectionism to be honest.
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That's true, but I trust the Chinese even less than I trust ours.

The difference now is that both hardware and software will be made in China now. How good has Huawei and ZTE been in releasing Android kernels/binaries/drivers for their phones on time and updating to the latest version of Android? How active is the XDA forums on their respective phones?

Interesting how you would call the article "trade protectionism" given that the US doesn't really have any telecom equipment vendor to protect.
The largest telecom equipment vendors in the world:
1.) Ericsson: Sweden
2.) Huawei: China
3.) Alcatel-Lucent SA: France
4.) Nokia Siemens Networks: Finland(joint venture between Nokia[Finland] and Siemens[Germany], but Nokia has now bought all of Siemen's stake)
5.) ZTE: China

What "trade" exactly is the US protecting? If it was the EU doing this, you'd have a point about "trade protectionism".
 
lothar said:
That's true, but I trust the Chinese even less than I trust ours.
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TBH theres more to worry about on a personal level from your own government rather than a foreign one. You have a lot of protection from foreign powers not so much from your own.

lothar said:
The difference now is that both hardware and software will be made in China now. How good has Huawei and ZTE been in releasing Android kernels/binaries/drivers for their phones on time and updating to the latest version of Android? How active is the XDA forums on their respective phones?
Click to expand...

Are you talking from a security viewpoint or a dev support viewpoint? I don't think that the chinese manufacturers are using any unusual hardware, its all of the shelf stuff (as 90% of android handsets are) so I don't see much of a problem either way.

lothar said:
Interesting how you would call the article "trade protectionism" given that the US doesn't really have any telecom equipment vendor to protect.
The largest telecom equipment vendors in the world:
1.) Ericsson: Sweden
2.) Huawei: China
3.) Alcatel-Lucent SA: France
4.) Nokia Siemens Networks: Finland(joint venture between Nokia[Finland] and Siemens[Germany], but Nokia has now bought all of Siemen's stake)
5.) ZTE: China

What "trade" exactly is the US protecting? If it was the EU doing this, you'd have a point about "trade protectionism".
Click to expand...

The artice summary is...

Summary: The House of Representatives' Intelligence Committee is set to release a report that calls for the Chinese telecoms kit-makers to be barred from any mergers and acquisitions in the US, and blocked from doing business with government and private firms there.
Click to expand...

If there are no sizable telecoms hardware makers in the US then whats the worry?
 
WelshBloke said:
The artice summary is...
Summary: The House of Representatives' Intelligence Committee is set to release a report that calls for the Chinese telecoms kit-makers to be barred from any mergers and acquisitions in the US, and blocked from doing business with government and private firms there.
Click to expand...


If there are no sizable telecoms hardware makers in the US then whats the worry?
Click to expand...
Because it's a security issue, and not a "trade protectionism" issue.
 
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