mainboard died in emachines junk, is the oem key still usable?

[Injury]

Originally posted by: Phoenix86

Originally posted by: Ornery

To restate: the operating system is "married" to the computer system on which it is originally installed.

I've heard that before, and to that I say FU MS! I've replaced HDDs and mobos in my own personal machines, and was not able to complete the Activation. I called MS, ready to give an earful to whoever wanted to give me guff about it, but never had a problem. Got the codes without a fuss, and all is well... AS IT SHOULD BE!

😕

Why not just buy a retail license?

If you want to go the route of screwing MS, why bother paying anything at all? I'm confused by people like you. Piracy is likely something you wouldn't consider, you did pay for the OS afterall; but when asked to pay for the product you want, you balk saying "FU MS".

So by the same thinking and adherance to the EULA, if someone bought a computer with an OEM license and the motherboard went dead, when you replace the motherboard then you have to buy a new copy of XP. That sounds COMPLETELY logical. :roll:

I couldn't care less what EULAs say, if I pay for software, whether I get a cheaper version or not, I will use that software however I please so long as I'm not re-distributing it. Look down on me if you want, but if I want to install the OEM copy of Windows98 that I got with my first computer 6 years ago on any computer I own, I will do that and you will not stop me.

 

[Ornery]

If you were to ask someone at M$, they'd tell you no.

But in reality, Windows XP will only give you problems during activation if you've changed out 3 or more components.

Wrong on both counts from my experience. I've got my activation codes from MS after telling them the motherboard(s) had been replaced. The most recent PC I worked on had a single HDD replaced in an HP Pavilion, and the Activation was not accepted without a phone call.

 

[The Linuxator]

Here is one big show stopper :

Lets say that I buy a computer from Dell for example and that PC comes loaded with Win XP OEM, then after that my motherboard goes dead in 2 days (as expected from a Dell PC these days 😀), I go to a Dell service center / I send it to Dell, and they replace the motherboard for me and run it and find that everything is OK.. Wouldn't that count as a violation of the EULA ? Because the same Win Xp OEM copy that was running on the previous motherboard, is now running on the new motherboard, now the question is , why hasn't this been brought up before to people's attention ?

 

[imported_Phil]

Originally posted by: The Linuxator
Here is one big show stopper :

Lets say that I buy a computer from Dell for example and that PC comes loaded with Win XP OEM, then after that my motherboard goes dead in 2 days (as expected from a Dell PC these days 😀), I go to a Dell service center / I send it to Dell, and they replace the motherboard for me and run it and find that everything is OK.. Wouldn't that count as a violation of the EULA ? Because the same Win Xp OEM copy that was running on the previous motherboard, is now running on the new motherboard, now the question is , why hasn't this been brought up before to people's attention ?

Because Dell has an agreement with Microsoft, dumbass, that allows them to do exactly that. They can also return COAs to Microsoft for a refund. Believe me, I know. I was working at a manufacturer until recently and this is exactly what happens.

Your anti-Microsoft tirades are getting tiresome. We get it, you're "sticking it to the Man" by using Linux. We've all heard it before, and we're all bored of it now.

 

[The Linuxator]

Originally posted by: Phil

Originally posted by: The Linuxator
Here is one big show stopper :

Lets say that I buy a computer from Dell for example and that PC comes loaded with Win XP OEM, then after that my motherboard goes dead in 2 days (as expected from a Dell PC these days 😀), I go to a Dell service center / I send it to Dell, and they replace the motherboard for me and run it and find that everything is OK.. Wouldn't that count as a violation of the EULA ? Because the same Win Xp OEM copy that was running on the previous motherboard, is now running on the new motherboard, now the question is , why hasn't this been brought up before to people's attention ?

Because Dell has an agreement with Microsoft, dumbass, that allows them to do exactly that. They can also return COAs to Microsoft for a refund. Believe me, I know. I was working at a manufacturer until recently and this is exactly what happens.

Your anti-Microsoft tirades are getting tiresome. We get it, you're "sticking it to the Man" by using Linux. We've all heard it before, and we're all bored of it now.

"I was working at a manufacturer until recently ", until recently you became a DUMBASS!!

Look go kiss Gate's ass and then come back and talk to me with some respect. I didn't know about that agreement( though I do know about the COA refund), you work / used to work in that line of business, HTF should I know ? It was the reasonable
question for me to raise since I didn't know.

 

[Rubycon]

3 components?

I've had a machine tell me I need to reactivate by just booting with another IDE drive attached where the CD rom was plugged in.

 

[imported_Phil]

Originally posted by: The Linuxator
"I was working at a manufacturer until recently ", until recently you became a DUMBASS!!

Did you come up with that all by yourself? Awww, how cute :lips: The noobie make a funny!

Look go kiss Gate's ass and then come back and talk to me with some respect.

😕
Were you dropped on your head as a child? Like, yesterday?
Respect is earned, son. It's not a right.

I didn't know about that agreement( though I do know about the COA refund), you work / used to work in that line of business, HTF should I know ? It was the reasonable
question for me to raise since I didn't know.

It's called logical thinking and common sense, two things that you seem to be lacking in.

Do you think that Dell, probably the largest manufacturer in the world, would be breaking the terms of the EULA, and still be in business? No.
Therefore, it's a reasonable train of thought to conclude that they struck a deal with Microsoft, or are covered by the terms of the EULA.

I have no problem in explaining this all to you, but your constant "OMG Micro$oft is teh EVIL!!!one!" posts are getting rather boring. If you want advice, help or information, ask in a normal, civilised manner, and people will help. If you continue to spout nonsense about "kissing Bill Gate's arse" and "until you became a DUMBASS!", then you'll find that the information dries up pretty quickly.

Now, time for your afternoon nap.

 

[CaptnKirk]

Replace the Mobo & CPU and get it on. Change the case too while you're at it.

Why ?

If your car breaks down and you have to replace trhe engine - it's still the same machine isn't it ?
What if you get the hood and fenders mangled in a crash and take it to the body shop - they'll replace the parts that are easier to swap out than to 'fix'.
Transmission failed - will they rebuild the one that's in it . . . if an exchanged part is less expensive and carrys a better warranty ?

You had a component failure, replace the component, put on nicer hubcaps and a apperance kit - and get on with your life.


If you do get a re-boot violation from the software, they supply a phone number for system reset - give them the information they ask
and you can stil honestly say that it's still just one machine . . modified, but the thing is still just one machine.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

I've replaced my mobo at least 3 times with the same XP Pro OEM license. I have never had to call MS for an authorization. Just do it!

 

[Chiropteran]

Originally posted by: Injury
The question is "Who is going to stop you?"

It's against the EULA to take it from one machine to the next, but that's stupid if the first machine is no longer working.

You've paid for an OEM license, use it on another machine if the one it came with dies. You aren't going to go to jail.

The BIGGEST stress point in OEM licenses is that they are not for re-sale without the original machine or without hardware.

Wow, seriously? Someone arrest Dell, because I have heard from reliable sources that they create the drives from images before moving them to the PC they are actually sold in. According to what you wrote as soon as the mirror is created that copy of windows is tied to the current motherboard it is attached to, and moving it would be highly illegal.

 

[CraigRT]

Sure, call up microsoft and explain how the one PC is now gone, you are just installing it onto another PC, still only on 1 PC.. I can't see how that is a problem......

 

[marvdmartian]

They might balk at that. If you tell them you're just re-installing windows, you had to replace the motherboard, and decided to reformat and reinstall, and they'll give you all the 4gazillion numbers you have to punch in, to get it activated again.

Like Nike says, OP, "just do it!!" 🙂

 

[AMCRambler]

Originally posted by: Phil

Originally posted by: The Linuxator
"I was working at a manufacturer until recently ", until recently you became a DUMBASS!!

Did you come up with that all by yourself? Awww, how cute :lips: The noobie make a funny!

Look go kiss Gate's ass and then come back and talk to me with some respect.

😕
Were you dropped on your head as a child? Like, yesterday?
Respect is earned, son. It's not a right.

I didn't know about that agreement( though I do know about the COA refund), you work / used to work in that line of business, HTF should I know ? It was the reasonable
question for me to raise since I didn't know.

It's called logical thinking and common sense, two things that you seem to be lacking in.

Do you think that Dell, probably the largest manufacturer in the world, would be breaking the terms of the EULA, and still be in business? No.
Therefore, it's a reasonable train of thought to conclude that they struck a deal with Microsoft, or are covered by the terms of the EULA.

I have no problem in explaining this all to you, but your constant "OMG Micro$oft is teh EVIL!!!one!" posts are getting rather boring. If you want advice, help or information, ask in a normal, civilised manner, and people will help. If you continue to spout nonsense about "kissing Bill Gate's arse" and "until you became a DUMBASS!", then you'll find that the information dries up pretty quickly.

Now, time for your afternoon nap.

Ok then, lets try this. You work for a company who has multiple systems of the exact same type. Motherboard dies in one, machine is out of warranty, you have a junked machine with a spare mobo and you swap out the bad one. According to that EULA it would be illegal to boot that machine up without reinstalling Windows.

 

[imported_Phil]

Originally posted by: Chiropteran

Originally posted by: Injury
The question is "Who is going to stop you?"

It's against the EULA to take it from one machine to the next, but that's stupid if the first machine is no longer working.

You've paid for an OEM license, use it on another machine if the one it came with dies. You aren't going to go to jail.

The BIGGEST stress point in OEM licenses is that they are not for re-sale without the original machine or without hardware.

Wow, seriously? Someone arrest Dell, because I have heard from reliable sources that they create the drives from images before moving them to the PC they are actually sold in. According to what you wrote as soon as the mirror is created that copy of windows is tied to the current motherboard it is attached to, and moving it would be highly illegal.

That's correct. Dell use roughly the same process as the last company I worked for:

(This is how my last employer did it, so YMMV)
Images are made onto hard disks, one per version of Windows, and one per motherboard chipset. The installation is SysPrep'd before the disk is removed, and each image is created using the exact same key; the OEM key that is issued to Dell for this purpose. Once the machine is SysPrep'd, when it's next booted, it will return to the MS OOBE (i.e. Welcome screen: Set Up your computer etc). This is where you need to enter the license key from the side of the machine, which effectively turns it into "your" copy of Windows.

Hence, it's not illegal for Dell or anyone else to do this, as not only is the procedure cleared with Microsoft (and then the key is issued), it's within the terms of the EULA.

Now, when they build a machine, say a P4 Intel D915GUXL chipset, the appropriate image is selected and placed on the Source port of a commercial hard disk duplicator, and copied to the destination hard disk. When the machine is booted up for the first time, the user is prompted to enter the license key.

Dell do this slightly differently, as they have a Microsoft-approved-and-supplied BIOS lock that bypasses activation if the machine has the right motherboard and hard disk. This is why you will be prompted to activate a Dell machine if you swap the motherboard for a non-Dell item.

 

[necine]

I'd use it. That's alot closer to legal then what many of us do for software. 😉

 

[JulesMaximus]

I've upgraded a few computers, changing out the mainboard & cpu and reloading WinXP. All my copies of XP are OEM versions and Microsoft has never denied me an activation code. I would give it a try, tell the Microsoft employee that your mainboard died and you replaced it with the one you are loading XP on. Just because it isn't in the same box shouldn't mean jack IMO.

 

[imported_Phil]

Originally posted by: AMCRambler
Ok then, lets try this. You work for a company who has multiple systems of the exact same type. Motherboard dies in one, machine is out of warranty, you have a junked machine with a spare mobo and you swap out the bad one. According to that EULA it would be illegal to boot that machine up without reinstalling Windows.

I'm not sure why you quoted me, but yes, that's correct. OEM variants of Windows are tied to that particular motherboard.
In this particular case however, Microsoft will most likely agree to the change. They reserve the right to deny it, though.

 

[AMCRambler]

Originally posted by: Phil

Originally posted by: Chiropteran

Originally posted by: Injury
The question is "Who is going to stop you?"

It's against the EULA to take it from one machine to the next, but that's stupid if the first machine is no longer working.

You've paid for an OEM license, use it on another machine if the one it came with dies. You aren't going to go to jail.

The BIGGEST stress point in OEM licenses is that they are not for re-sale without the original machine or without hardware.

Wow, seriously? Someone arrest Dell, because I have heard from reliable sources that they create the drives from images before moving them to the PC they are actually sold in. According to what you wrote as soon as the mirror is created that copy of windows is tied to the current motherboard it is attached to, and moving it would be highly illegal.

That's correct. Dell use roughly the same process as the last company I worked for:

(This is how my last employer did it, so YMMV)
Images are made onto hard disks, one per version of Windows, and one per motherboard chipset. The installation is SysPrep'd before the disk is removed, and each image is created using the exact same key; the OEM key that is issued to Dell for this purpose. Once the machine is SysPrep'd, when it's next booted, it will return to the MS OOBE (i.e. Welcome screen: Set Up your computer etc). This is where you need to enter the license key from the side of the machine, which effectively turns it into "your" copy of Windows.

Hence, it's not illegal for Dell or anyone else to do this, as not only is the procedure cleared with Microsoft (and then the key is issued), it's within the terms of the EULA.

Now, when they build a machine, say a P4 Intel D915GUXL chipset, the appropriate image is selected and placed on the Source port of a commercial hard disk duplicator, and copied to the destination hard disk. When the machine is booted up for the first time, the user is prompted to enter the license key.

Dell do this slightly differently, as they have a Microsoft-approved-and-supplied BIOS lock that bypasses activation if the machine has the right motherboard and hard disk. This is why you will be prompted to activate a Dell machine if you swap the motherboard for a non-Dell item.

Ah well. It seems that legally replacing the motherboard force you to buy a new OS. Honestly though, they will never know as long as you keep the same case and other components. If it were me, I'd slap a new motherboard in there so I could keep using my computer.
Now back to the case of the company swapping parts between identical systems. Even if a company were audited, are they actually going to try and match serial numbers of motherboards with the OEM licenses? I don't think records of that are even kept by the manufacturer. How could they enforce this?

 

[imported_Phil]

Originally posted by: AMCRambler
Ah well. It seems that legally replacing the motherboard force you to buy a new OS. Honestly though, they will never know as long as you keep the same case and other components. If it were me, I'd slap a new motherboard in there so I could keep using my computer.

Precisely. It's to give MS something to work with should they decide that a particular key is being abused.

Now back to the case of the company swapping parts between identical systems. Even if a company were audited, are they actually going to try and match serial numbers of motherboards with the OEM licenses? I don't think records of that are even kept by the manufacturer. How could they enforce this?

Nope.
You need to understand Windows Product Activation (WPA) to realise how this works.
I won't go into full details, but suffice to say that the MAC address and hard disk controller are two of the items checked by WPA when generating your unique installation ID. Because the MAC address has to be different, it's a good thing to check, from Microsoft's point of view.

Now, when you activate, a hash of your installation identifier is sent to Microsoft, and stored on their servers against your license key. AFAIK, they can't tell what hardware you have from the hash, as is the nature of hashing algorithms.
If you change the motherboard, even for an identical board, the MAC address will be different. Thus, the hash changes, and if enough hardware is changed, then a re-activation is forced. There's a "voting" system in place, but you'll need to Google for it to find out exactly how it works.

When the new hash is sent to Microsoft, it won't be the same as the hash that they have stored. Thus, activation may fail. IIRC, the MAC address changing can be enough to force reactivation.

Stash (and other MS employees), please feel free to correct all this, as it's been a while 😉

 

[Linflas]

Anytime I have replaced a motherboard all I have had to do is call MS, repeat the codes to the person, affirm that I am using this OS on only 1 machine. When they ask why I am reactivating I tell them I just upgraded some hardware. They have never gone into anymore depth than that with me.

Question for you guys that work in the OEM arena: When Newegg sells OEM copies of XP they supposedly are satisfying the bundled hardware requirement with a power Y connector. Newegg is large enough that I got to think that they are not flying under the MS radar so exactly what gives with that?

 

[AMCRambler]

Originally posted by: Phil

Originally posted by: AMCRambler
Ah well. It seems that legally replacing the motherboard force you to buy a new OS. Honestly though, they will never know as long as you keep the same case and other components. If it were me, I'd slap a new motherboard in there so I could keep using my computer.

Precisely. It's to give MS something to work with should they decide that a particular key is being abused.

Now back to the case of the company swapping parts between identical systems. Even if a company were audited, are they actually going to try and match serial numbers of motherboards with the OEM licenses? I don't think records of that are even kept by the manufacturer. How could they enforce this?

Nope.
You need to understand Windows Product Activation (WPA) to realise how this works.
I won't go into full details, but suffice to say that the MAC address and hard disk controller are two of the items checked by WPA when generating your unique installation ID. Because the MAC address has to be different, it's a good thing to check, from Microsoft's point of view.

Now, when you activate, a hash of your installation identifier is sent to Microsoft, and stored on their servers against your license key. AFAIK, they can't tell what hardware you have from the hash, as is the nature of hashing algorithms.
If you change the motherboard, even for an identical board, the MAC address will be different. Thus, the hash changes, and if enough hardware is changed, then a re-activation is forced. There's a "voting" system in place, but you'll need to Google for it to find out exactly how it works.

When the new hash is sent to Microsoft, it won't be the same as the hash that they have stored. Thus, activation may fail. IIRC, the MAC address changing can be enough to force reactivation.

Stash (and other MS employees), please feel free to correct all this, as it's been a while 😉

Interesting. I never knew about that hash stuff. Is this only with OEM copies of Windows or all copies?

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: Linflas
Anytime I have replaced a motherboard all I have had to do is call MS, repeat the codes to the person, affirm that I am using this OS on only 1 machine. When they ask why I am reactivating I tell them I just upgraded some hardware. They have never gone into anymore depth than that with me.

Question for you guys that work in the OEM arena: When Newegg sells OEM copies of XP they supposedly are satisfying the bundled hardware requirement with a power Y connector. Newegg is large enough that I got to think that they are not flying under the MS radar so exactly what gives with that?

Yep, I have 2 OEM copies of WinXP and during my last upgrade about a year ago I was having trouble with some faulty hardware and I must have activated Windows about 15 times on one motherboard, then I went through two different motherboards after that and activated Windows on them even trying different copies of XP. At one point I had a Microsoft employee on the phone and I explained to him the trouble I was having and that I had only 2 computers in the house and 2 XP Pro licenses. He was fine with that and gave me the activation code.

So, for one OEM license I've probably activated it on 3 or 4 different mainboards and a few different hard drives. Never have I had it on more than one working computer at any point in time though.

 

[The Linuxator]

Originally posted by: Linflas
Anytime I have replaced a motherboard all I have had to do is call MS, repeat the codes to the person, affirm that I am using this OS on only 1 machine. When they ask why I am reactivating I tell them I just upgraded some hardware. They have never gone into anymore depth than that with me.

Question for you guys that work in the OEM arena: When Newegg sells OEM copies of XP they supposedly are satisfying the bundled hardware requirement with a power Y connector. Newegg is large enough that I got to think that they are not flying under the MS radar so exactly what gives with that?

Nope never worked for me in my old emachines after I upgraded the motherboard, I told them that I upgraded some hardware and they gvie me numbers to put in I do that and it fails everytime.

 

[imported_Phil]

Originally posted by: AMCRambler
Interesting. I never knew about that hash stuff. Is this only with OEM copies of Windows or all copies?

Well, the specifics may vary a tad, as it's possible that the hardware identifier* is actually the hash, but I'm at work and haven't a great deal of time free.

* If you've ever activated over phone, you can see this as it will ask you to enter it to progress through activation. It's a looong string of numbers.

However, WPA is the same across all versions of Windows XP, and even across Server 2003/SBS etc. The reason that Dell and other manufacturers get around the activation issue is thusly:

(Again, from the viewpoint of my last company, YMMV, IIRC, blah blah blah)
The company contact Microsoft and explain their intentions; no activation for all their machines. If MS agree, they will generate four highly encrypted files that they will only transfer to you by CD in the mail, or an FTP server at the company that you have to set up yourselves.

These four files are the key to silencing WPA in it's entirety, and they are tied to:

1. Motherboard's DMI area in the BIOS.
2. Hard disk hidden sector.
3. License key.

The motherboard's DMI information area is a user-writable area inside the BIOS that can be used, for instance, to store a code. The manufacturer uses a BIOS-locking program (that I actually have, but it only works on Intel boards without some serious hacking and peeking/poking of addresses), which writes a specific string to this area.

The hidden sector is much the same; it marries the motherboard and hard disk together.

The license key, IIRC, is not often used as a checkpoint to bypass activation. It can be, though.

So, the machine's built, the hard disk has been blasted*, the DMI information written, and the HD hidden sector is done.

Windows will now boot, see the four files, perform some checking of the hardware, and if all is well, then activation will be skipped/silenced. Hence, if you change the motherboard, that DMI information is gone, and the activation bypass checkpoints will fail, causing activation to be required on next boot.

* blasted = the term used to duplicate a hard disk onto another using a commercial hard disk copying machine. The one that the last company had was a 12-port device, that could write to 2.5" laptop disks, regular 3.5" PATA disks, and SATA too when used with an adaptor. Plug the source into Port1, and however many drives you need into the other ports. Press the green button, it scans the ports and turns on the connected drives. The copying then starts, and was completed at a rate of 1.3GB/minute. Fun machine 😉

Hope this is of interest!

 

[imported_Phil]

Originally posted by: Linflas
Question for you guys that work in the OEM arena: When Newegg sells OEM copies of XP they supposedly are satisfying the bundled hardware requirement with a power Y connector. Newegg is large enough that I got to think that they are not flying under the MS radar so exactly what gives with that?

Apparently it's okay. MS don't define it as anything but having to be "... purchased with hardware", so a Molex splitter is actually fine.