MAGA plan to make Americans into serfs.. the 50 year mortgage

[nakedfrog]

While you and I wouldn't do it, lots of people will. It's an extra $250 a month to spend on other junk. That $250 might be enough to get the heated massage seats in the $90k SUV they want, or automate their homes so they can turn off the lights from another country that they can't afford to visit with their $1200 smart phone.
Consumerism is limitless, it's insidious, and a lots of people love the joy of a new purchase.
So yeah, I see people doing this.

Edit: People are buying cars at 32% interest, another 20 years on the home loan won't be a big reach.

If you were a good person, you'd be concerned about the state of the world left behind for your grandchildren and great-grandchildren, rather than shrugging and smiling as people are distressed that things are being made worse for them.

 

[Fenixgoon]

If you were a good person, you'd be concerned about the state of the world

FTFY

 

[nakedfrog]

FTFY

I mean I think I can readily admit that's a bridge much, much too far for him. But one would think maybe concern for one's own direct descendants is tangible enough to ponder.

 

[Pontius Dilate]

Perhaps when I say weeping and wailing you hear something different being expressed than I do. To my mind you have simply sanitized what is being said to its sterile logical presentation when what I hear is the emotional tones in which those negative implications the offering of a 50 year mortgage would createand the derision toward those who fail to see them are relayed.

This thread if filled with anger even rage and contempt toward those who can understand why people already fucked by the system will willingly fuck themselves further in search of relief. They were viciously put down for expressing that view.

The left wants to be their brother’s keeper so long as it means preserving their position in the system. We are all a part of a fucked system, prisoners of it both physically and mentally in various degrees of economic bondage and attachment to it. We are the system. When anybody expressed contempt of a part of it they should recognize they enable it if they are benefitting within it. I see no real change resulting hormones the bellyaching, only an attempt to cast blame on someone else. How can I look at what is, being a part of it and not recognize my presence within it has not changed it a wit.? Who am I to blame someone else?

Did not a group of bleeding heart liberal Senators just surrender to pressure to restore government funding on the pretext of the widespread suffering the shutdown create?

I know very little, and perhaps am wrong about this, but didn’t those same capitulations earlier vote in a way that led to the shutdown down? What happened?

I don't think anyone failed to see the negative implications of the 50 year mortgage. My question to Greenman was getting at what I said in my previous post. Republicans seem to say, "Sure, bad things will happen but that's just the way it is, not my problem," whereas it seems to me a better answer is, "Let's not do that because it will have bad outcomes and there are better solutions to the problem it's trying to fix." The first answer is an abandonment of agency. Insofar as we have choices in the matter, we ought to make good choices that ensure the greatest number of good outcomes for the greatest number of people.

I think it's fair to say that the put downs on offer for some people have far deeper roots and history than merely the subject of this thread. Ultimately this is a web forum where emotion-filled human beings discuss politics and the news of the day, and the moderators have made clear the level of discourse they are willing to tolerate. Tone-policing now seems a bit late, that horse is long gone.

 

[Moonbeam]

I don't think anyone failed to see the negative implications of the 50 year mortgage. My question to Greenman was getting at what I said in my previous post. Republicans seem to say, "Sure, bad things will happen but that's just the way it is, not my problem," whereas it seems to me a better answer is, "Let's not do that because it will have bad outcomes and there are better solutions to the problem it's trying to fix." The first answer is an abandonment of agency. Insofar as we have choices in the matter, we ought to make good choices that ensure the greatest number of good outcomes for the greatest number of people.

I think it's fair to say that the put downs on offer for some people have far deeper roots and history than merely the subject of this thread. Ultimately this is a web forum where emotion-filled human beings discuss politics and the news of the day, and the moderators have made clear the level of discourse they are willing to tolerate. Tone-policing now seems a bit late, that horse is long gone.

Isn’t what you are proposing a rational attempt to adjust the system to serve a less advantaged class? I am saying that approach will not work. The system itself is the reason inequality exists. It is the system itself that is the prison. You are rearranging the furniture as I see it. I think you are operating under an unconscious assumption fixing the system within the system will work and the presence of that assumption is why what I say doesn’t make sense to you.

I an aware, also, that Greenman is seen by many here from past experiences with things he has said. I have challenged many of those in the past also.

I have no intentions of policing anything. The impossibility of that is part of my point. I am saying that the tone we hear is the result of lack of conscious awareness on the part of those with that tone. I can’t change them. I have no need to change them. I can’t change them. What I can and will do is state my opinion that only they can change themselves. They operate on the assumption they have no need to change because out of moral self righteousness. I make that point because it is true. You are free to disagree.

All of my impressions about unconscious assumptions are the result of me looking at me coupled with the view that we are all the same. If you do not assume we are all the same, why hold any point of view? Everything you have to me here in that case would just apply to you.

 

[fskimospy]

How can there be affordable housing in expensive locations? The land will be expensive, construction will cost more because wages will be higher and the people building the "affordable" housing will live in the expensive area. Insurance costs will be expensive, fuel and material will be expensive. You can't build where everything is expensive and end up at affordable.

I spent most of my life building in expensive areas, I bid the jobs, I hired the workers, I paid the insurance premiums, I bought the material and I wrote all the checks. I know a little about it.

It's odd to say things like this when there are examples of exactly how to do this all over the world.

As much as NIMBYs want to pretend supply and demand doesn't exist I assure you it most certainly does.

 

[nakedfrog]

It's fascinating, the man with experience in building in expensive areas seems to think he's some sort of authority and that we should listen to him.
But the same does not hold true when it comes to people with experience in climate science or the medical field or economics field or...

 

[cytg111]

This is weird gaslighting. No one in this thread is screaming and yelling, weeping, wailing or gnashing their teeth. People are talking about a bad idea floated by the dumbest president of our lifetimes. The conservative response is basically, "This is a bad idea but stupid people will do stupid things and blame someone else, so it goes." Most everyone else is saying, "This is a bad idea which should not be enabled. Instead there are other things we should be doing." Resignation vs alternatives.

Moonie has an idea of what the system must look like, what must be, in order for it to get processed through his worldview-algorithm and produce the result that he is fixated on being the core problem of everything and anything. And thus we, you and me, must look like that system. You wont penetrate his shell, to contemplate that he has perhaps not figured all of it out would shatter him to his core. Just say yes, I hate myself and move on.

 

[Moonbeam]

It's odd to say things like this when there are examples of exactly how to do this all over the world.

As much as NIMBYs want to pretend supply and demand doesn't exist I assure you it most certainly does.

Supply and demand are laws that apply to the profit motive system that exists. In a system directed by human need the urgency of need would direct the supply. The greater the need the greater the supply. Action is directed by motive. The value of one’s life is determined by the magnitude of joy created by success. Perhaps you believe that money buys happiness rather than relief from stress.

 

[Moonbeam]

Moonie has an idea of what the system must look like, what must be, in order for it to get processed through his worldview-algorithm and produce the result that he is fixated on being the core problem of everything and anything. And thus we, you and me, must look like that system. You wont penetrate his shell, to contemplate that he has perhaps not figured all of it out would shatter him to his core. Just say yes, I hate myself and move on.

I said nothing about self hate here.

 

[fskimospy]

Supply and demand are laws that apply to the profit motive system that exists. In a system directed by human need the urgency of need would direct the supply. The greater the need the greater the supply. Action is directed by motive. The value of one’s life is determined by the magnitude of joy created by success. Perhaps you believe that money buys happiness rather than relief from stress.

Empirical research clearly shows a relationship between money and self reported happiness so whether it’s happiness itself or the removal of stressors the end effect is the same.

 

[Brainonska511]

Empirical research clearly shows a relationship between money and self reported happiness so whether it’s happiness itself or the removal of stressors the end effect is the same.

I can say that not having to worry about how to pay my bills makes me pretty happy, and I can use that extra money to do fun things and spend on luxuries, like eating out, vacations, or living in a nicer place. But what do I know?

Money isn't buying happiness, but it is staving off misery.

 

[Pontius Dilate]

Isn’t what you are proposing a rational attempt to adjust the system to serve a less advantaged class? I am saying that approach will not work. The system itself is the reason inequality exists. It is the system itself that is the prison. You are rearranging the furniture as I see it. I think you are operating under an unconscious assumption fixing the system within the system will work and the presence of that assumption is why what I say doesn’t make sense to you.

I an aware, also, that Greenman is seen by many here from past experiences with things he has said. I have challenged many of those in the past also.

I have no intentions of policing anything. The impossibility of that is part of my point. I am saying that the tone we hear is the result of lack of conscious awareness on the part of those with that tone. I can’t change them. I have no need to change them. I can’t change them. What I can and will do is state my opinion that only they can change themselves. They operate on the assumption they have no need to change because out of moral self righteousness. I make that point because it is true. You are free to disagree.

All of my impressions about unconscious assumptions are the result of me looking at me coupled with the view that we are all the same. If you do not assume we are all the same, why hold any point of view? Everything you have to me here in that case would just apply to you.

So if the system itself is the problem in its entirety, what is your real-world alternative to the system as it exists in the United States today? How long will it take to move to your vision for a system-less society? What are the major steps to get there?

 

[K1052]

I can say that not having to worry about how to pay my bills makes me pretty happy, and I can use that extra money to do fun things and spend on luxuries, like eating out, vacations, or living in a nicer place. But what do I know?

Money isn't buying happiness, but it is staving off misery.

I agree with this. Though I think having too much money, say billions of dollars, is legitimately damaging to people's psyches.

 

[IronWing]

I can say that not having to worry about how to pay my bills makes me pretty happy, and I can use that extra money to do fun things and spend on luxuries, like eating out, vacations, or living in a nicer place. But what do I know?

Money isn't buying happiness, but it is staving off misery.

Having money is, above all else, incredibly convenient. Being poor is complicated in ways the well off simply can't imagine.

 

[nakedfrog]

So if the system itself is the problem in its entirety, what is your real-world alternative to the system as it exists in the United States today? How long will it take to move to your vision for a system-less society? What are the major steps to get there?

Is Moonie out here promoting anarchy now? A stateless society without heirarchy?

 

[cytg111]

I said nothing about self hate here.

Its right there between the lines

 

[HomerJS]

While you and I wouldn't do it, lots of people will. It's an extra $250 a month to spend on other junk. That $250 might be enough to get the heated massage seats in the $90k SUV they want, or automate their homes so they can turn off the lights from another country that they can't afford to visit with their $1200 smart phone.
Consumerism is limitless, it's insidious, and a lots of people love the joy of a new purchase.
So yeah, I see people doing this.

Edit: People are buying cars at 32% interest, another 20 years on the home loan won't be a big reach.

A lot of people would pimp out their daughters to some rich billionaire does that mean it should be allowed?

 

[HomerJS]

All hail the plutocracy

 

[brycejones]

It's fascinating, the man with experience in building in expensive areas seems to think he's some sort of authority and that we should listen to him.
But the same does not hold true when it comes to people with experience in climate science or the medical field or economics field or...

Let’s just remember that greenman was also an expert in the demolition of “facades” and determined the structure of the White House was not being destroyed as the entire east wing was being demolished.

 

[Moonbeam]

Empirical research clearly shows a relationship between money and self reported happiness so whether it’s happiness itself or the removal of stressors the end effect is the same.

How can happiness and relief from stree be the same thing? Isn’t one the presence of something and the other the lack of something?

Furthermore, why would we wanton to depend on other people’s opinions of what happiness is? How do we know what they experience is real. How could they convince us they are actually happy? Won’t people fake anything for the sake of appearances?

 

[fskimospy]

How can happiness and relief from stree be the same thing? Isn’t one the presence of something and the other the lack of something?

Furthermore, why would we wanton to depend on other people’s opinions of what happiness is? How do we know what they experience is real. How could they convince us they are actually happy? Won’t people fake anything for the sake of appearances?

Stress makes you unhappy. Regardless the best way to know if someone is happy is for them to tell you if they are happy.

This is an ongoing issue you have where you think you know better than people know themselves so you want to force them to think like you do.

Edit: to put it simply people are a better judge as to if they are happy than you are as to if they are happy.

 

[Moonbeam]

So if the system itself is the problem in its entirety, what is your real-world alternative to the system as it exists in the United States today? How long will it take to move to your vision for a system-less society? What are the major steps to get there?

My claim was that there are no answers within the system. Would not any rational discussion about alternatives have to be left to those who already see that, people who are seriously in search of answers. I don’t think you and I are there yet so anything I might consider you would here from the fact you are still looking to defend your position, no?

 

[Moonbeam]

Its right there between the lines

It’s also right there as the truth hidden between your ears. Foolishly and angry in denial, you believe that the truth that you hate yourself magically makes it true you are actually despicable. And because you believe that lie that’s all you can hear. You can’t help yourself because you are in denial. I could call you a dumbass but it wouldn’t help. You live that truth daily. Try not to.

 

[BoomerD]

https://www.politico.com/news/2025/11/10/trumps-50-year-mortgage-plan-is-getting-panned-allies-blame-this-man-00645654

Apparently, Trump has gotten a ton of negative reactions to the 50 year mortgage...so, of course, now he's against it. (until he's for it again)

White House officials are furious with Bill Pulte, the Federal Housing Finance Agency director, who talked the president into suggesting a 50-year mortgage plan.

The White House was blindsided by the idea, according to two people familiar with the situation granted anonymity to discuss internal thinking, and is now dealing with a furious backlash from conservative allies, business leaders and lawmakers.