MAGA is Dead. Signed: America First.

[cytg111]

Just a headline with a timestamp on it. You saw it here first.


This is the shift I am seeing. It's a return to the conspiracy stuff but not in Q form.
I bet if Dems would go Mamdani-AOC like they could pick up a lot of these ex-maga characters.

But make no mistake, MAGA is dying, also explains the rats jumping ship (MTG).

 

[nakedfrog]

I ain't watchin' all that. Skimming his Twitter feed, is he promoting the conspiracy theory that Israel assassinated Charlie Kirk?

 

[cytg111]

I ain't watchin' all that. Skimming his Twitter feed, is he promoting the conspiracy theory that Israel assassinated Charlie Kirk?

How did you know?

 

[nakedfrog]

How did you know?

I just told you, I skimmed his Twitter feed That and you said it was a return to conspiracy stuff.

Ian Carroll (@IanCarrollShow)

Follow the money. Seek the truth. Do your own research. Not an expert in anything but sarcasm. YouTube- @iancarrollshow

xcancel.com

 

[cytg111]

He has got a following and thinks Tucker is cool.

Now they will begin eating each other. Popcorn.

 

[Indus]

I could almost tolerate an anti Elonia and anti Pedo conspiracy theorist!

But kindly leave hobags like Nancy Mace and Lauren Bobert at home.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I visited with some contemporary senior friends today. We think we understand all of this, and we know that the MAGA may not listen.

First, they've lost a sense of the history our country has traversed since before WWII. They can't be much in tune with the greater leaders we've had then and since then.

So they're untethered to tradition, common sense, and how we got here. I and my friends demonstrated against Vietnam and the draft. But we think America might be "Great Again" only if we had the draft and some program of compulsory service.

What is necessary to keep and strengthen the Nation-State? What's the line between just indoctrination and a rational, common sense of history and purpose?

We also think they're spoiled and that they've fooled themselves into being discontent with their basic human condition in America. They want to blame others for it: The Mexicans, the Democrats, the Gays and Trans. But their leaders, like Bannon and surrogates for Stephen Miller, are selling them a bill of goods that doesn't foster belief in the Constitution, the justifiable evolution of our society under the reasonably strict adherence to the rules, and acceptance of the decisions of past generations and leadership long past.

Take for instance Trump himself, and his delusion about tariffs. How is it that he can possibly think that he's a Great Genius for his conclusions about tariffs, when all the economists -- past and present -- and the history of tariffs in the 20th century completely defy Trump's view of things as vacant and stupid. How can he be dumb enough to think that his view of it is some great revelation and a way to depart from the prudent governance we had pursued all along in prior administrations?

They don't have enough work to do; they watch too much TV and engage in a totally unreliable social media to gather their facts and beliefs; and you can show the disrespect to human progress, to the accomplishments of past generations and blindness to their own small and miniscule understanding of history and human progress.

SO! It's a good thing that they're abandoning their delusional thinking and motivations, but to be replaced by what?

 

[ivwshane]

I’ve always said boomers became the very thing they hated.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I’ve always said boomers became the very thing they hated.

Your remark intrigues me, but could you clarify? Of course -- I'm a Boomer.

 

[ivwshane]

Your remark intrigues me, but could you clarify? Of course -- I'm a Boomer.

The boomers started off as the civil right generation, the anti war generation, the peace and love generation, the pro environment generation, pro women generation and then Reagan and the 80’s happened and they bought into the “greed is good” mantra, sex and excess, and the Republican trickle down economics, and while wealth inequality was growing they focused on making sure they got theirs and they weren’t going to support the very things that made their lives easier, the policies of their parents.


Obviously I’m generalizing but their actions, their votes support what I’m saying, in general. It was handouts and help for them and bootstraps for everyone after them.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

The boomers started off as the civil right generation, the anti war generation, the peace and love generation, the pro environment generation, pro women generation and then Reagan and the 80’s happened and they bought into the “greed is good” mantra, sex and excess, and the Republican trickle down economics, and while wealth inequality was growing they focused on making sure they got theirs and they weren’t going to support the very things that made their lives easier, the policies of their parents.


Obviously I’m generalizing but their actions, their votes support what I’m saying, in general. It was handouts and help for them and bootstraps for everyone after them.

Sure -- you generalize, but it's an interesting view of things. When were you born?

I stood on the sidelines with Civil Rights, thinking mildly that it was a good thing. At that time, I somehow concluded thoughtlessly that "it wasn't my struggle". It should've been. Here and there, I demonstrated against the war, but mostly kept my head in the books. I didn't want to go to Vietnam, and people close to me didn't want me to go to Vietnam. I just wanted to get through college. Peace and love? I spent a week or two in Haight-Ashbury during the "Summer of Love", as if it were some sort of "spring vacation", sleeping in an old Pea-Coat in Golden Gate Park. Of course, after Love Canal, I supported environmental action. As for Women's Liberation, I was bewildered. It seemed to upend my "Field of Dreams" hopes and wishes.

I couldn't buy into Reagan-omics. I was struggling just to have a successful career with a modestly comfortable income. I wasn't going to be a hedge-fund manager. But put it another way. I was naive in the late 60s and 1970s. Someone had given me a copy of "Pentagon Papers", and I didn't get around to reading it for ten years! I came late to the Woke Parade. But it wasn't for influence from someone else: it was my observation about the world and what I thought was wrong with it. I had flirted with Republicanism based on naive thoughts and ideas, and started drifting to the other side as a logical process. I wanted to see Justice, and I didn't anymore believe that being an aggressive player in "free markets" would pay off. I began to see the wild lottery behind the facade.

I really came to an understanding about the Vietnam War through friends who returned with PTSD and shrapnel wounds, and particularly -- you can laugh -- a scholarly examination of the JFK murder. Learning the history of the Intelligence community beginning with it's precursor OSS and "Wild Bill" Donovan, or getting familiar with the history of the war brought me around.

I actually believe that I had discovered something nobody else had bothered to look at. Today, I think it was not too different than Heinrich Schliemann's discovery of the mythical city of Troy as a real historical place. Explaining it requires that I post some pages from books published by "persons of interest" and a third book author they had likely manipulated, moving his book into cinema when CIA was doing that sort of thing. I'm not going into further detail about this. Not here and now, anyway.

The matter of the war becomes clear reading declassified documents like the various versions of the McNamara-Taylor Vietnam Trip Report of October 1963. And of course Pentagon Papers, which included an edition of that document. Anybody know WHO established the Saigon Military Mission in 1953? WHO arranged the election of Ngo Dinh Diem in 1955? Or -- here's one -- who was Yuri Nosenko, and why was he held incommunicado at CIA's Camp Peary for three years? And WHO gave the order for his imprisonment?

SO!! WHEN WERE YOU BORN, IVWSHANE? This curious mind wants to know. I was born in 1947. My parents might as well have been characters in "The Best Years Of Our Lives".

 

[IronWing]

The boomers started off as the civil right generation, the anti war generation, the peace and love generation, the pro environment generation, pro women generation and then Reagan and the 80’s happened and they bought into the “greed is good” mantra, sex and excess, and the Republican trickle down economics, and while wealth inequality was growing they focused on making sure they got theirs and they weren’t going to support the very things that made their lives easier, the policies of their parents.


Obviously I’m generalizing but their actions, their votes support what I’m saying, in general. It was handouts and help for them and bootstraps for everyone after them.

Counter point to your first point. The Civil Rights Movement was mostly conducted by people older than the Boomers. The vast majority of the Boomers couldn't even vote when the Civil Rights Act passed in 1964 and the Voting Rights Act passed in 1965. The Civil Rights Movement was something that happened to the Boomers, not something they did.

 

[ivwshane]

Sure -- you generalize, but it's an interesting view of things. When were you born?

I stood on the sidelines with Civil Rights, thinking mildly that it was a good thing. At that time, I somehow concluded thoughtlessly that "it wasn't my struggle". It should've been. Here and there, I demonstrated against the war, but mostly kept my head in the books. I didn't want to go to Vietnam, and people close to me didn't want me to go to Vietnam. I just wanted to get through college. Peace and love? I spent a week or two in Haight-Ashbury during the "Summer of Love", as if it were some sort of "spring vacation", sleeping in an old Pea-Coat in Golden Gate Park. Of course, after Love Canal, I supported environmental action. As for Women's Liberation, I was bewildered. It seemed to upend my "Field of Dreams" hopes and wishes.

I couldn't buy into Reagan-omics. I was struggling just to have a successful career with a modestly comfortable income. I wasn't going to be a hedge-fund manager. But put it another way. I was naive in the late 60s and 1970s. Someone had given me a copy of "Pentagon Papers", and I didn't get around to reading it for ten years! I came late to the Woke Parade. But it wasn't for influence from someone else: it was my observation about the world and what I thought was wrong with it. I had flirted with Republicanism based on naive thoughts and ideas, and started drifting to the other side as a logical process. I wanted to see Justice, and I didn't anymore believe that being an aggressive player in "free markets" would pay off. I began to see the wild lottery behind the facade.

I really came to an understanding about the Vietnam War through friends who returned with PTSD and shrapnel wounds, and particularly -- you can laugh -- a scholarly examination of the JFK murder. Learning the history of the Intelligence community beginning with it's precursor OSS and "Wild Bill" Donovan, or getting familiar with the history of the war brought me around.

I actually believe that I had discovered something nobody else had bothered to look at. Today, I think it was not too different than Heinrich Schliemann's discovery of the mythical city of Troy as a real historical place. Explaining it requires that I post some pages from books published by "persons of interest" and a third book author they had likely manipulated, moving his book into cinema when CIA was doing that sort of thing. I'm not going into further detail about this. Not here and now, anyway.

The matter of the war becomes clear reading declassified documents like the various versions of the McNamara-Taylor Vietnam Trip Report of October 1963. And of course Pentagon Papers, which included an edition of that document. Anybody know WHO established the Saigon Military Mission in 1953? WHO arranged the election of Ngo Dinh Diem in 1955? Or -- here's one -- who was Yuri Nosenko, and why was he held incommunicado at CIA's Camp Peary for three years? And WHO gave the order for his imprisonment?

SO!! WHEN WERE YOU BORN, IVWSHANE? This curious mind wants to know. I was born in 1947. My parents might as well have been characters in "The Best Years Of Our Lives".

I’m a gen xer. A powerless generation who made due with what we had and who never stood for anything because our opinions were drowned out by boomers and now millennials. We are the DIY generation, we were left to our own devices, and taught to rely on no one. A generation hit with one setback after another, torn between an analog and digital world, physical human connections and digital ones (like this forum). We saw the scam that is politics and yet too powerless to do anything about it. We saw the scam of employment for what it was, corporate slavery, and yet too complacent to get away from it.

Some call us the forgotten generation but I think a better name might be the disillusioned generation. We read about what could have been with the boomer generation only to watch it become what it hated and now we get to see the millennial generation try their hand and so far they are not off to a good start. They seem to be the all or nothing generation and have let perfection be the enemy of good. They won’t take incrementalism as an answer and we’ll see if that’s a good idea or not soon enough.

 

[ivwshane]

Counter point to your first point. The Civil Rights Movement was mostly conducted by people older than the Boomers. The vast majority of the Boomers couldn't even vote when the Civil Rights Act passed in 1964 and the Voting Rights Act passed in 1965. The Civil Rights Movement was something that happened to the Boomers, not something they did.

True but that’s like saying gen xers didn’t create the internet but happened to be alive when it was created. It’s a true statement but ignores the fact that they benefited from it and it influenced them a lot.

 

[SteveGrabowski]

The boomers started off as the civil right generation, the anti war generation, the peace and love generation, the pro environment generation, pro women generation and then Reagan and the 80’s happened and they bought into the “greed is good” mantra, sex and excess, and the Republican trickle down economics, and while wealth inequality was growing they focused on making sure they got theirs and they weren’t going to support the very things that made their lives easier, the policies of their parents.


Obviously I’m generalizing but their actions, their votes support what I’m saying, in general. It was handouts and help for them and bootstraps for everyone after them.

Meh the boomers voted for Nixon even as he sent them off to die at war. They have always been on the political right.

 

[SteveGrabowski]

I’m a gen xer. A powerless generation who made due with what we had and who never stood for anything because our opinions were drowned out by boomers and now millennials. We are the DIY generation, we were left to our own devices, and taught to rely on no one. A generation hit with one setback after another, torn between an analog and digital world, physical human connections and digital ones (like this forum). We saw the scam that is politics and yet too powerless to do anything about it. We saw the scam of employment for what it was, corporate slavery, and yet too complacent to get away from it.

Some call us the forgotten generation but I think a better name might be the disillusioned generation. We read about what could have been with the boomer generation only to watch it become what it hated and now we get to see the millennial generation try their hand and so far they are not off to a good start. They seem to be the all or nothing generation and have let perfection be the enemy of good. They won’t take incrementalism as an answer and we’ll see if that’s a good idea or not soon enough.

As a Gen X'er we have it way better than the Millennials and later generations. We're the last gen where a college degree pretty much guaranteed good employment. My life would have been so much harder had I been born ten years later. Can't imagine trying to enter the workforce during the jobless recovery after the shitbags on Wall Street crashed the economy in 2008. Still way better than trying to enter the workforce now though when every lower level tech job that would usually be for recent grads has been outsourced. Can you imagine busting your ass nowadays for a CS degree only to have to work for Doordash or at an amazon warehouse because the fucking tech bros running the nation sold you out? Ugh if all the time I spent slogging through APUE2 was for nought I'd probably start burning the city down.

 

[BoomerD]

I’ve always said boomers became the very thing they hated.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

As a Gen X'er we have it way better than the Millennials and later generations. We're the last gen where a college degree pretty much guaranteed good employment. My life would have been so much harder had I been born ten years later. Can't imagine trying to enter the workforce during the jobless recovery after the shitbags on Wall Street crashed the economy in 2008. Still way better than trying to enter the workforce now though when every lower level tech job that would usually be for recent grads has been outsourced. Can you imagine busting your ass nowadays for a CS degree only to have to work for Doordash or at an amazon warehouse because the fucking tech bros running the nation sold you out? Ugh if all the time I spent slogging through APUE2 was for nought I'd probably start burning the city down.

I had watched this trend over the last two decades, just for seeing college students at a UC campus who couldn't easily afford the tuition, and who took six years to graduate when most people did it in four years decades earlier.

Coming out of the Depression, the country asked much of its youth, but they were rewarded with the GI Bill and the post-war years when the distribution of wealth was historically the most even. Then, their kids -- the Boomers -- could get through college with the state universities subsidized by infusions of defense industry cash in expanding state economies. But everyone had expectations that may have seemed greater than markets would allow, crowded by a slowly growing surplus of graduates.

I can understand the disillusion of later generations, but the political choices leading to our current crisis were misplaced. It's easy to see that the better circumstances of those who came earlier would affect the attitudes of the more recent generations.

I suppose it's too much to ask that more recent generations adopt a more stoic conviction. But this is not too different than what I'd already said. There's probably a sense of vague entitlement based on perceptions of how things used to be for older generations. How could it be otherwise?

But I think we should wake up to the notion that a "trickle-down" economy and its public policies falls far short.

 

[Paratus]

As a later born GenXer the hardest part for me was how optimistic I felt after graduation in the late 90’s.

Cold War was over.
Markets were up
Job markets were good
Deficit was eliminated
Internet kicking into high gear
New millenium

I ended up in a job I loved, married, in a new house.

Seemed like the world could be a decent stable place for everyone.

Then SCOTUS overturned the election in Bush v Gore
9/11
Multiple wars
Patriot act
Great Recession
A couple of direct hits and near misses by catastrophic hurricanes
COVID
Ever worsening Political environment.

I’m tired of living in interesting times.

 

[SteveGrabowski]

As a later born GenXer the hardest part for me was how optimistic I felt after graduation in the late 90’s.

Cold War was over.
Markets were up
Job markets were good
Deficit was eliminated
Internet kicking into high gear
New millenium

I ended up in a job I loved, married, in a new house.

Seemed like the world could be a decent stable place for everyone.

Then SCOTUS overturned the election in Bush v Gore
9/11
Multiple wars
Patriot act
Great Recession
A couple of direct hits and near misses by catastrophic hurricanes
COVID
Ever worsening Political environment.

I’m tired of living in interesting times.

Yeah we didn't have Y2K, we had much worse from this shit century.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Makes me want to paraphrase Jim Morrison in a Florida Doors concert when he said to Floridians: "EV-ery-thing is better in Cal-i-forn-ya!" I think it was better in the 20th century. Did I mention walking home from school during the Cuban Missile Crisis, when two, loud, smoke-spewing B-47s had taken off from March AFB flying low over the city? I felt safer during the Cuban Missile Crisis as a KID than I do now. I also thought I could become deaf from the noise above.

Paratus said something to which I can react: "Cold War was over." I believe I dreamed up this observation before the millennium, but it might have been later. The Cold War never ended. Oh, sure, Yeltsin was their President and he was a good ol' guy. We thought that after descending into the transitional trough, their economy would begin to blossom.

However. Look at the flash points of conflict after the collapse of the USSR. Afghanistan. Iran, Iraq, Syria. You can probably name a few more. But once Putin was back in the game, the Cold War posturing continued. We wanted to believe that the Cold War was over -- perhaps out of hubris, or just weary and wishful thinking. Remember that de Tocqueville prophesied the emerging rivalry between two great powers -- USA and Russia. We certainly had to declare victory. This -- even though the Russia of the 19th century might not have seemed such a "great power", but it commanded a large land mass. Yet, the notion of the Cold War is anchored in the ideological conflict between capitalism and communism.

The defense budget was supposed to decrease after the emergence of the Russian Commonwealth, but it never did. Clinton closed some air bases or turned them into reserve bases. The defense budget just kept growing.

 

[hal2kilo]

The boomers started off as the civil right generation, the anti war generation, the peace and love generation, the pro environment generation, pro women generation and then Reagan and the 80’s happened and they bought into the “greed is good” mantra, sex and excess, and the Republican trickle down economics, and while wealth inequality was growing they focused on making sure they got theirs and they weren’t going to support the very things that made their lives easier, the policies of their parents.

I hated the Clinton's for their Wall Street lust. Am I a good guy now?

 

[ivwshane]

I hated the Clinton's for their Wall Street lust. Am I a good guy now?

Its your actions that you’ll be judged by.

 

[hal2kilo]

Is your actions that you’ll be judged by.

No shit.

 

[ivwshane]

No shit.

lol ok boomer