Mafia II's strangely high suggested "Apex" (PhysX) recommended requirements

[Patrick Wolf]

"a dedicated NVIDIA GTX 285 (or better) for PhysX"

That's either bullshit, or a perfect example of how poorly coded physx is. Even if Mafia 2 has the greatest physx implementation yet there's no way in hell a 285 should be needed to smoothly render some piddly effects.

 

[BenSkywalker]

I really hope this game actually does do something meaningful with Physx.

Apex is mainly improved particle systems and more advanced cloth simulations. Those who want to bash it will be able to make themselves feel good by repeating it doesn't matter. Those who like to see advancement in visual fidelity will appreciate what it is for what it is.

I had stated the NVIDIA still has yet to offer a GPU hardware physics solution that doesn't drastically impact the rendering performance of a single GPU system.

I will state that ATi still has yet to offer a GPU 32x AA solution that doesn't drastically impact the rendering performance of a single GPU system. Their AA also hasn't changed the gameplay in any game I've tried either.

 

[MrK6]

I showed that my statement was true. My monitor is 1680x1050 and the benchmark I provided clear shows the game's minimum frame rate with a gtx 260 216 to be between 47-58 fps. MINIMUM.

You probably should have included your resolution in the original statement then. As it stands, I showed that at typical gaming resolutions, the GTX 260-216 could not keep up. I'm sure if you lower the resolution enough, it can eventually put out decent framerates. Either way, the main point was the performance hit for running PhysX is completely disproportional to the minor visual changes.

Until you say there are more efficient methods to render their physics effects (which simply isn't true), clearly the rest is only an opnion and one we do not wholly agree on.

But there are. Games have been doing most PhysX effects on CPUs or by different methods on the the GPU for the last decade, with much better performance results. NVIDIA's implementation is shoddy at best, and promoting it otherwise is laughable.

"a dedicated NVIDIA GTX 285 (or better) for PhysX"

That's either bullshit, or a perfect example of how poorly coded physx is. Even if Mafia 2 has the greatest physx implementation yet there's no way in hell a 285 should be needed to smoothly render some piddly effects.

Exactly. They either suck at coding or they're doing it on purpose to try to sell video cards.

Apex is mainly improved particle systems and more advanced cloth simulations. Those who want to bash it will be able to make themselves feel good by repeating it doesn't matter. Those who like to see advancement in visual fidelity will appreciate what it is for what it is.

"Visual fidelity"

I will state that ATi still has yet to offer a GPU 32x AA solution that doesn't drastically impact the rendering performance of a single GPU system. Their AA also hasn't changed the gameplay in any game I've tried either.

Reaching for anything now, huh? What exactly does 32x AA offer over 16x AA? Could you take a few screenshots to show the differences, since it seems to be such a worthwhile investment to you? I personally prefer that AMD went the extra mile to develop single GPU solutions that can actually render well at much higher resolutions, rather that twist pixels even more. My 5850 handles 2560x1600 and even 5760x1200 well. In fact, it far surpasses NVIDIA's single GPU multi-monitor solution because... oh wait, NVIDIA cards can't even do that, nevermind.

 

[SirPauly]

Hehe, I don't know what to say --Does nVidia do anything nice or kinda neat --- anything to add immersion?

Looking forward to see if PhysX shines in Mafia 2.

 

[tviceman]

"a dedicated NVIDIA GTX 285 (or better) for PhysX"

That's either bullshit, or a perfect example of how poorly coded physx is. Even if Mafia 2 has the greatest physx implementation yet there's no way in hell a 285 should be needed to smoothly render some piddly effects.

Agreed that it's an outrageous requirement, but Nvidia recommended a gtx275 with a 9800gtx for dedicated physx in Batman and the game was very playable with a gtx260 216 on high physx. Hopefully this is a similar situation....

 

[tviceman]

You probably should have included your resolution in the original statement then. As it stands, I showed that at typical gaming resolutions, the GTX 260-216 could not keep up. I'm sure if you lower the resolution enough, it can eventually put out decent framerates.

Typical resolutions?

http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey

The most common resolution: 1280 x 1024
The second most common resolution: 1680x1050
The third most common resolution: 1440x900

The FOURTH most common resolution: 1920 x1080

Wow seriously quit trying so hard to prove me wrong because it just makes you look worse and worse.

 

[Wreckage]

Hehe, I don't know what to say --Does nVidia do anything nice or kinda neat --- anything to add immersion?

Looking forward to see if PhysX shines in Mafia 2.

I thought the effects added to Batman and Mirror's Edge added immersion.

I have not played Metro 2033, but the videos on that looked good as well.

Mafia II looks to be the new Crysis. Maybe that will be the slogan this year "Can it play Mafia II"?

 

[starspy]

Typical resolutions?

http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey

The most common resolution: 1280 x 1024
The second most common resolution: 1680x1050
The third most common resolution: 1440x900

The FOURTH most common resolution: 1920 x1080

Wow seriously quit trying so hard to prove me wrong because it just makes you look worse and worse.

Looks like steam users have some tiny monitors. Anyone who frequently games will be using a 24"+ monitor. So 1920x1080 or 1900x1200 is standard now. And if you don't game at your monitors native resolution, you're doing it wrong.

Back to the topic, I feel the game requirements are a little stretched. But this won't stop me from playing it.

 

[evolucion8]

We can cherry pick benchmarks all day long that prove either one of us right:

http://www.pcgameshardware.com/aid,...hysx-effects-benchmark-review/Reviews/?page=2

I played the game on a gtx260-216 with physx on and experienced no slow down at all throughout the whole game.

Heck, I was able to max Mirrors Edge with an AGEIA PhysX PCI PPU and never experienced a single slowdown. I can't say the same thing with Batman AA which turned to a crawl in some scenarios, but at least I enjoyed BAA to the fullest with their nice Phisics effects, the only game which did a good show case of PhysX. Most other games have Shoddy PhysX implementation and effects, pityful.

 

[MrK6]

Typical resolutions?

http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey

The most common resolution: 1280 x 1024
The second most common resolution: 1680x1050
The third most common resolution: 1440x900

The FOURTH most common resolution: 1920 x1080

Wow seriously quit trying so hard to prove me wrong because it just makes you look worse and worse.

This is an enthusiast website, not the common population; I think 1680x1050 is considered low end. Anyway, if this is so upsetting, you should probably just stop discussing it before you have a breakdown.

 

[LeCramp1]

I think the PhysX effects looks pretty damn amazing in Mafia II

Don't think we have ever seen anything like it in PC gaming..

Check it out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ik-me8RWEWc

 

[happy medium]

This is an enthusiast website, not the common population; I think 1680x1050 is considered low end. Anyway, if this is so upsetting, you should probably just stop discussing it before you have a breakdown.

So ,Mafia 2 is only being sold to enthusiast web sites?
In the real world 1680x1050 is the higher end and people who buy the game will mostly be using 1280x1024.

 

[tviceman]

I think the PhysX effects looks pretty damn amazing in Mafia II

Don't think we have ever seen anything like it in PC gaming..

Check it out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ik-me8RWEWc

According to MrK6 it sucks and it can easily be done easier and faster on the CPU and the performance hit isn't worth it so they shouldn't even do it at all and therefore we should play a straight up console port instead of being given an option.

This is an enthusiast website, not the common population; I think 1680x1050 is considered low end. Anyway, if this is so upsetting, you should probably just stop discussing it before you have a breakdown.

Ohhhkay nice chatting with you. You did an excellent job of backing up your arguments with strong personal opinions and then degrading the discussion further by asserting that I am getting upset when I point out facts to prove your argument wrong.

Stay classy San Diego!

 

[MrK6]

So ,Mafia 2 is only being sold to enthusiast web sites?
In the real world 1680x1050 is the higher end and people who buy the game will mostly be using 1280x1024.

Are those people going to be running PhysX too? Do you think they actually have cards at least as powerful as the discussed GTX 260-216? If not, how does this comment pertain to the discussion at all?

According to MrK6 it sucks and it can easily be done easier and faster on the CPU and the performance hit isn't worth it so they shouldn't even do it at all and therefore we should all just play a straight up console port instead of being given an option.

Ohhhkay nice chatting with you. You did an excellent job of backing up your arguments with strong personal opinions and then degrading the discussion further by asserting that I am getting upset.

Stay classy San Diego!

Would you mind quoting where I said any of that? Or are you trying to put words in my mouth because you're upset I showed you were incorrect? Every point I made has a reference, and I stated my opinion. Honestly, if you can't handle being wrong or someone having a different opinion, you should probably stay in your mother's basement and not venture outside. The world gets a lot more difficult than discussing the merits of a proprietary GPU physics solution.

 

[tviceman]

you should probably stay in your mother's basement and not venture outside. The world gets a lot more difficult than discussing the merits of a proprietary GPU physics solution.

Bachelors in Computer Science. Minor in Mathematics.
Full time Firefighter for 10 years.
Kansas City Fire Department Fitness Instructor and Evaluator.
Part time baseball umpire.
Professional Natural Bodybuilder.

Living in my mom's basement would be great, to be honest. It would allow me to save a whole lot of money so I could afford to get a couple of gtx480's and play Mafia with it's worthless, unoptimized physx effects maxed out. But I don't think my wife would be enjoy that kind of trade off.

In the meantime, do you have any other "classy" degrading comments or personal attacks towards me?

 

[kami]

Would there be any downside to running PhysX on the CPU on my setup? Or better just to allow one of my cards to do the physx? Most games don't push my CPU beyond 15-20%... with all that extra room I'd rather just let the graphics cards be graphics cards, but I ask cause I thought I remember reading something about poor performance when physx is set to CPU.

 

[SirPauly]

I thought the effects added to Batman and Mirror's Edge added immersion.

I have not played Metro 2033, but the videos on that looked good as well.

Mafia II looks to be the new Crysis. Maybe that will be the slogan this year "Can it play Mafia II"?

The Mafia trailers do look impressive and actually a pretty big supporter of GPU Physics and the potential it may bring. Granted, I would like to see nVidia port it so many more gamers can enjoy it but at least the ball is rolling and content is slowly being added. Thought Batman was a lot a fun as well and certainly helped immersion from my perspective.

They're always going to be complainers and bickerers, offering every excuse imaginable not to use it and sometimes part of camps and division. If nVidia can spend the resources and try to get it in titles -- I can be open minded enough to see what they can come up with.

 

[toyota]

Would there be any downside to running PhysX on the CPU on my setup? Or better just to allow one of my cards to do the physx? Most games don't push my CPU beyond 15-20%... with all that extra room I'd rather just let the graphics cards be graphics cards, but I ask cause I thought I remember reading something about poor performance when physx is set to CPU.

are you really that unaware of how physx works? you cant run hardware level physx on your cpu no matter how good it is unless 20 fps sounds like fun.

 

[MrK6]

Bachelors in Computer Science. Minor in Mathematics.
Full time Firefighter for 10 years.
Kansas City Fire Department Fitness Instructor and Evaluator.
Part time baseball umpire.
Professional Natural Bodybuilder.

Living in my mom's basement would be great, to be honest. It would allow me to save a whole lot of money so I could afford to get a couple of gtx480's and play Mafia with it's worthless, unoptimized physx effects maxed out. But I don't think my wife would be enjoy that kind of trade off.

In the meantime, do you have any other "classy" degrading comments or personal attacks towards me?

Act like a child and I will assume you are a child. Where's the quotation supporting any of your straw man arguments against me or what I have presented? Or are you trying to make this into something ad hominem so you can conveniently back out by playing the "poor me" card? Not going to work. Put up or shut up, if your next post isn't on topic I'm ignoring it.

 

[kami]

are you really that unaware of how physx works? you cant run hardware level physx on your cpu no matter how good it is unless 20 fps sounds like fun.

Since my CPU is barely being utilized in games CPU sounded good to me but apparently I'm wrong.

Doing a little googling it appears that nvidia purposefully gimps physx on the CPU...
http://www.realworldtech.com/page.cfm?ArticleID=RWT070510142143

PhysX COULD run much faster on a modern CPU but nvidia won't allow it. Of course that is their prerogative but it's a really dick move if you ask me.

 

[SHAQ]

How do any of you know how many particles Mafia 2 is pushing? A 200 series was fine for up to 30,000 particles. I didn't even see any Fluidmark benches in the thread so far. Maybe it will have more than Cryostasis had. Have any of you tried Cryostasis with different cards with PhysX on high? There are a couple of benches out there but are hard to find. We should find some dev links or Nvidia marketing materials before we draw conclusions. It is quite possible the game can calculate real time physics on 50,000 simultaneous particles. We don't know. And this is on high settings. There are lower settings you can use.

 

[biostud]

Are physX effects dependent of resolution?

What resolution are the settings recommended for?

 

[brybir]

Bachelors in Computer Science. Minor in Mathematics.
Full time Firefighter for 10 years.
Kansas City Fire Department Fitness Instructor and Evaluator.
Part time baseball umpire.
Professional Natural Bodybuilder.

Living in my mom's basement would be great, to be honest. It would allow me to save a whole lot of money so I could afford to get a couple of gtx480's and play Mafia with it's worthless, unoptimized physx effects maxed out. But I don't think my wife would be enjoy that kind of trade off.

In the meantime, do you have any other "classy" degrading comments or personal attacks towards me?

I live in Kansas City and my roommate is a firefighter with Kansas City as well! Maybe you 2 know each other? I know its a big department but Ill have to send him this description to see if he knows you. Not often anyone is from KC online it seems.

 

[Patrick Wolf]

How do any of you know how many particles Mafia 2 is pushing? A 200 series was fine for up to 30,000 particles. I didn't even see any Fluidmark benches in the thread so far. Maybe it will have more than Cryostasis had. Have any of you tried Cryostasis with different cards with PhysX on high? There are a couple of benches out there but are hard to find. We should find some dev links or Nvidia marketing materials before we draw conclusions. It is quite possible the game can calculate real time physics on 50,000 simultaneous particles. We don't know. And this is on high settings. There are lower settings you can use.

Does it matter? Nvidia develops and markets physx. They're in total control. It will run as good or as bad as they want it to. And it's clearly crap as virtually no developer, whatever their reason, wants to implement it unless they get a handout. It doesn't take a degree in computer science to see the hardware "requirement" doesn't fit the visual impact.

Looking at the trailer it looks very doubtful a dedicated 285 will be required for a high minimum on high setting. Curious why it wasn't a physx on/off comparison trailer... and why they don't mention what Physx setting was used cause it's not very impressive. Hopefully these requirements are overblown for stupid people who will buy the hardware in advance, or keep what they have instead of selling it.

 

[Lonbjerg]

"a dedicated NVIDIA GTX 285 (or better) for PhysX"

That's either bullshit, or a perfect example of how poorly coded physx is. Even if Mafia 2 has the greatest physx implementation yet there's no way in hell a 285 should be needed to smoothly render some piddly effects.

Or it just shows that Mafia II does more physics = more computation than any game before...

It still amazes me how little people understand about just how computational heavy physcis are...and whine about the laws of physics