MAF sensor - is it the same thing as a ' Air Intake / Charge Temperature' Sensor?

[mrblotto]

Good eclipse-day to you all

For the past couple weeks, my '97 Celica has been randomly (twice a week maybe?) shutting off when stopped at a traffic light. It will start right back up however. There's no CEL, so after doing a wee bit of research, came to the conclusion it may be either the EGR valve or the MAF sensor.

Seeing that I had the EGR valve replaced a few years ago, I'm leaning towards the MAF. But for the life of me, I can't find one. The closest thing I can find is from RockAuto. It's called a ' Air Intake / Charge Temperature Sensor'

Is that the same thing, just with a different name? Or am I looking in the totally wrong area?

411-
1997 Celica 1.8 4cyl
341K miles

Thank you all for your input
Blah-Toe

 

[razel]

Sure looks like it. Perhaps that's what they called it for that era. Try removing yours from your car. You can clean it and maybe if you're lucky just wiggling the connector will get you going. It should be located between the throttle body and air filter. Holy hell. 341K miles!!! Original engine and transmission? Even if it's rebuilt, it's still O.G. to me.

Also you may eventually get a CEL which will help you.

 

[NutBucket]

Are you sure your car even has a MAF? From looking at images of the 7A-FE, it looks like it does not. It would be on the intake, before the throttle body with a 4-7 pin harness attached.

 

[pauldun170]

Good eclipse-day to you all

For the past couple weeks, my '97 Celica has been randomly (twice a week maybe?) shutting off when stopped at a traffic light. It will start right back up however. There's no CEL, so after doing a wee bit of research, came to the conclusion it may be either the EGR valve or the MAF sensor.

Seeing that I had the EGR valve replaced a few years ago, I'm leaning towards the MAF. But for the life of me, I can't find one. The closest thing I can find is from RockAuto. It's called a ' Air Intake / Charge Temperature Sensor'

Is that the same thing, just with a different name? Or am I looking in the totally wrong area?

411-
1997 Celica 1.8 4cyl
341K miles

Thank you all for your input
Blah-Toe

Clean the throttle body. When done disconnect the battery then reconnect.
With that sort of mileage, a toothbrush, some cleaner and about 30-60 minutes worth of work might do the trick.
Stuff gets dirty, computer adjusts....gets more dirty...computer adjusts...gets to the point where is obscenely dirty and the computer can only do so much.
http://davidvielmetter.com/tricks/howto-clean-the-maf-sensor-on-a-toyota-corolla/

 

[HarryLui]

97 Celica has no MAF sensor, it has a MAP sensor.

http://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/...el+&+air,manifold+pressure+(map)+sensor,11207

 

[mrblotto]

Thank you for that info Harry. I guess I just didn't know what I was looking for lol.

Anyhow, I went ahead and cleaned out the throttle body. It was......well....nasty to say the least.

Edit:
Argh......forgot about photobucket no longer linking images........I tried something else. Hopefully it works

http://www.tlbclan.com/board/album/406789-test

I used up about 1/3 can of carb/throttle body cleaner. At first I had the car off, opened up the valve, and liberally sprayed. After a bit, I figured I may as well start the car and use the the throttle cable which was right there at the same time to keep it running whilst I applied . Open up the throttle some, spray waaaaaay down in there, all around,increase throttle to avoid stalling..... Lather/rinse/repeat.

Guess I'll find out tomorrow (or maybe next week...who knows) if it fixed it

Thanx all for the wonderful info
*salute*

 

[JCH13]

IAT (intake air temperature) is NOT a MAF (mass air flow) equivalent. Your car uses a MAP (manifold absolute pressure) sensor in place of a MAF.

Edit: Harry beat me to it

Cleaning the throttle body is a great suggestion. I would also suggest cleaning the IAC (idle air control) valving/lines. If the throttle body is gunked up it is likely that the IAC is gunked as well.

 

[Pick2]

Last car We had that would stall at stop lights turned out to be the fuel pump
Engine codes didn't help. The company sent it to the local auto repair shop 3-4 times , they changed a bunch of parts and charged a whole lot of money , and then the company sold the car for $300 to a fellow employee. He changed the fuel pump - $90 - and drove it for YEARS with no problems

 

[bruceb]

This site shows the Mass Air Flow sensor listed for you car.
https://www.carid.com/1997-toyota-celica-mass-air-flow-sensors/?filter=1&sub-model[Liter][]=1.8L
To find it under the hood, it will be in the Intake Air Duct and this link tells how to see if it is bad:
http://troubleshootmyvehicle.com/toyota/1.8L/how-to-test-the-maf-sensor-1

 

[DaTT]

Weren't MAP's replaced with MAF's on all cars with OBD2? is 1997 too early for OBD2?

 

[bruceb]

I can't say for sure. My 1999 Grand Prix has both MAP & MAF sensors ... As to OBDII all 1996 and later are required to have it.

 

[JCH13]

This site shows the Mass Air Flow sensor listed for you car.
https://www.carid.com/1997-toyota-celica-mass-air-flow-sensors/?filter=1&sub-model[Liter][]=1.8L
To find it under the hood, it will be in the Intake Air Duct and this link tells how to see if it is bad:
http://troubleshootmyvehicle.com/toyota/1.8L/how-to-test-the-maf-sensor-1

That MAF is listed as 'universal fit' which makes me think that this engine doesn't actually have one. RockAuto lists no MAF. There are none to be found on Amazon. I cannot even find one on toyotapartsbarn.com. I'm calling BS on this.

 

[bruceb]

This is what Toyota calls the Mass Air Flow Sensor ... if you do not believe it, call your local dealer.
https://parts.toyota.com/p/METER-AS...MBLY-INTAKE-AIR-FLOW/63031862/2220421010.html

METER ASSEMBLY; METER SUB-ASSEMBLY

Part Number: 2220421010 2220407010

INTAKE AIR FLOW.

 

[JCH13]

This is what Toyota calls the Mass Air Flow Sensor ... if you do not believe it, call your local dealer.
https://parts.toyota.com/p/METER-AS...MBLY-INTAKE-AIR-FLOW/63031862/2220421010.html

METER ASSEMBLY; METER SUB-ASSEMBLY

Part Number: 2220421010 2220407010

INTAKE AIR FLOW.

That's all well and dandy, but the Celica is not on that part's application list.

Searching "meter" or "air meter" doesn't turn up a sensor in either RockAuto or ToyotaPartsBarn.com.

I'm not trying to be obstinate, I just can't find any evidence that a 1.8L 1997 Celica as anything akin to an AFM. It appears to use an IAT and MAP.

 

[bruceb]

I found that part number after I selected 97 Celica 1.8 L engine .. it should be correct, but a call to a dealership parts man will tell you for sure.

 

[JCH13]

I found that part number after I selected 97 Celica 1.8 L engine .. it should be correct, but a call to a dealership parts man will tell you for sure.

https://www.amazon.com/Toyota-22204-07010-22204-22010-22204-21010-22204-0D030/dp/B006WHKKGY

2000-2005 Celica on the application list. Nothing about 1997. Even the side you linked doesn't show a 1997 Celica on the applications list.

At the website you found this on the '2001' button is right above the '1997' button. I think you just mis-clicked.

 

[HarryLui]

I found that part number after I selected 97 Celica 1.8 L engine .. it should be correct, but a call to a dealership parts man will tell you for sure.

Funny, I found Part Number: 894200W040 8942020300 instead.

https://parts.toyota.com/a/Toyota_1...TRONIC-FUEL-INJECTION-SYSTEM/252470-8404.html

• WHAT THIS FITS

Toyota Celica 1.8L ST COUPE 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997
Toyota Celica 1.8L ST LIFTBACK 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997
Toyota Celica 2.2L GT CONVERTIBLE 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999
Toyota Celica 2.2L GT COUPE 1994, 1995, 1996
Toyota Celica 2.2L GT LIFTBACK 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997
Toyota Celica 2.2L ST COUPE 1998
Toyota Celica 2.2L ST LIFTBACK 1998, 1999

EDIT: Got beat by JCH13! LOL.


mrblotto

Don't throw parts at the car! I'd borrow a scanner and see how the senors are doing. Then maybe looking for a vacuum leak, change the plugs and fuel filter if they have not be touch for a while.

 

[JCH13]

Funny, I found Part Number: 894200W040 8942020300 instead.

https://parts.toyota.com/a/Toyota_1...TRONIC-FUEL-INJECTION-SYSTEM/252470-8404.html

• WHAT THIS FITS

Toyota Celica 1.8L ST COUPE 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997
Toyota Celica 1.8L ST LIFTBACK 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997
Toyota Celica 2.2L GT CONVERTIBLE 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999
Toyota Celica 2.2L GT COUPE 1994, 1995, 1996
Toyota Celica 2.2L GT LIFTBACK 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997
Toyota Celica 2.2L ST COUPE 1998
Toyota Celica 2.2L ST LIFTBACK 1998, 1999

EDIT: Got beat by JCH13! LOL.


mrblotto

Don't thru parts at the car! I'd borrow a scanner and see how the senors are doing. Then maybe looking for a vacuum leak, change the plugs and fuel filter if they have not be touch for a while.

Huh. Looks like a MAP sensor. Doesn't look like there's a MAF sensor anywhere in there.

Also, fuel injection system? I do not like how Toyota categorizes parts some times.

 

[bruceb]

Perhaps I made an error. Still not sure. Suggest the car have it's TPS checked and also clean the Idle Air Control Solenoid and the opening that it controls. They will build up carbon which can affect idle. A bad TPS Sensor can also affect idle speed as the computer will not know if the throttle is closed or open.

 

[mrblotto]

mrblotto

Don't throw parts at the car! I'd borrow a scanner and see how the senors are doing. Then maybe looking for a vacuum leak, change the plugs and fuel filter if they have not be touch for a while.

I have a scanner and no codes are present. The plugs were changed a few months ago after I got a CEL for a misfire during a trip. Fuel filter? I actually got one about a year ago, but never installed it. It's in my car rattling around under the passenger seat......

Perhaps I made an error. Still not sure. Suggest the car have it's TPS checked and also clean the Idle Air Control Solenoid and the opening that it controls. They will build up carbon which can affect idle. A bad TPS Sensor can also affect idle speed as the computer will not know if the throttle is closed or open.

I did take a look at the Inlet Air Temperature Sensor (#89424 on HarryLui's link) and cleaned it up a bit. Man, that thing is stoopid expensive, $100 for something the size of a Bic lighter lol. OK - that HAS to be OEM. RockAuto has 'em from $20 - $60. I think I took a look at the TPS. I didn't really know what it was to tell the truth. It's connected to the air inlet. I took it off, poked around inside there with my fingers, but didn't feel any parts at all inside it. I ran my finger around in there too and it came out clean, so I'm gonna guess it's ok.

For the past couple days, there have been no issues with stalling.

To do list-
-Change Fuel Filter. Looks to be on the drivers side, behind the battery somewhere
-Locate and check out MAP sensor. I'm thinking it may be on the firewall around the center or close to.

Thanx again all. Will update my progress

Edit: oh hell.....my garage door opener decided to take a dump. It turns on, but the door doesn't open. I'm guessing a stripped gear. Gah! What to look at first....car or garage door opener.....danged houses with their problems! lol

 

[mrblotto]

Update:

Yeah, stalls are back and worse than ever. Going to work today it stalled twice. Then I had to 'left foot brake/right foot gas' to keep it going.

The drive home was uneventful, until I stopped at our business. Went to leave, got to the stop sign-stalled....sigh

went down the road a mile or 2, got to another light...waiting to turn left ...stalled again.....ugh

I did manage to get the garage door open (pull the emergency handle and prop it up with a board lol.) Now I'm outside with a beer in my hand and the hood open. I've located the TPS. Just working up enough nerve/alcohol to unscrew it and poke around.

 

[boomerang]

The TPS is on the throttle body. There is no fixing it (unless it's loose which is pretty rare) or cleaning it. You diagnose whether it is faulty with a scan tool if it is not throwing codes. Typically instead of a smooth linear readout as the throttle is opened or closed, the numbers will jump or stick. It's nothing more than a potentiometer. But I wouldn't replace that without knowing it's the problem. If the car is running normally otherwise, I doubt it's the TPS.

The advice you've been given to clean the IAC is your best bet. It has both mechanical and electrical parts to it. You don't want to go to town on it and have solvent running into the electrical portion. If the throttle body was gunked up, the IAC is too. I'm betting a careful cleaning fixes your problem.

Does the car have an oil pressure gauge or an idiot light? If a gauge, how is the oil pressure when the car does idle for you? If the oil pressure drops too low, in most cars the circuit will be broken to the fuel pump. You lose fuel pressure and the engine quits running. It's a fail-safe to help prevent catastrophic engine failures. And the oil pressure could be fine, it could be a faulty pressure sensor. At start-up, the computer ignores the oil pressure initially so the car can be started.

 

[mrblotto]

The advice you've been given to clean the IAC is your best bet......

Does the car have an oil pressure gauge or an idiot light?

I'm looking at how to remove the IAC valve right now. Not quite sure if it involves removing the throttle body altogether. Looking like removal of a few hoses, the throttle cable, and maybe a couple other things. I think I'll get some replacment hoses as well if I do this, as they may crack/break.
There is no oil pressure gauge. There may be an idiot light, but I've never seen it.

I did locate the fuel filter. It's pretty far down there with cables/hoses above it, making it hard to get to. Wondering if it would be easier to get to from below

 

[bruceb]

Info here on how to remove and clean it. And on that car, yes, the throttle body has to come off. Be sure to have a new gasket for throttle body to intake manifold when it goes back on.
https://www.celicahobby.com/forums/...-air-control-valve-how-to-properly-clean.html

 

[mrblotto]

Thx bruceb. I went ahead and took it apart. It was pretty caked with carbon buildup. I prolly went thru another 1/3 bottle of carb cleaner and 30 Q-Tips lol. Hooked everything back up (with no extra parts leftover!), and it started right up. It's sitting here idling now. Now we play the waiting game........