*MacNET* tears Apple a new one

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Tetsuo

Lifer
Oct 20, 2002
10,908
13
81
pwned


My faves:

Apple?s ability to sell music online imagine what they?ll think if Gates comes up with an alternative that will reach the 95% of the other PC users out there dying to buy music the way these 5% Mac users do. A million tunes in the first week is a lot of music, now multiply that by a factor of 10.

Microsoft can beat Apple at this game with one hand tied behind their back.

Microsoft has already won, and most people know it already.

Let?s look at this way; for every customer Apple loses to the dark side, Microsoft would need to lose 10 to the Mac platform. That pretty much says it all, doesn?t it?


Ever watch ?The Family Guy?? Do you have any doubt that Steve Jobs was the model for ?Stewie??

Like many of you we too were afflicted with the dreaded Reality Distortion Field, and it took a two drastic acts of criminal intent by Apple employees to open our eyes.

I remember Mac users criticizing Microsoft to constantly releasing ?service packs? for Windows. Has anyone noticed that OS X seems to require just as many, if not more, service packs?

again..pwned!
 

Anubis

No Lifer
Aug 31, 2001
78,712
427
126
tbqhwy.com
i read all that. thought it was good. Its a very well written opinion thats extreamly logicial and makes perfert sense. I agree with him allpel is killing its self and has been for sometime
 

jst0ney

Platinum Member
Feb 20, 2003
2,629
0
0
interesting. I read the whole thing too. I'd like to hear about his ACC testing and itunes4 testing. My friend tested (he is a big apple fan so its a little biased) a posted it on our site.
 

RbSX

Diamond Member
Jan 18, 2002
8,351
1
76
Clear, concise and well thought. Although a little bit bitter this is probably one of the better articles I've read.
 
Jan 31, 2002
40,819
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All Apple accomplished here was to give Gates a template to work with and with 10 times more money than Apple, Microsoft can beat Apple at this game with one hand tied behind their back. Apple should have rolled out this service for both platforms at the same time instead of giving Microsoft a heads up on what coming, allowing Gates to throw enough money to counter attack in time to ward off the Windows version of iTunes. The move to make it ?Mac only? was really stupid.

At the Microsoft Hardware Engineering Conference this week Gates told PC makers to start building cooler looking machines and make their software more attractive to look at. Sound familiar? Do you honestly think that if Microsoft wants this done it won?t happen?

Microsoft has already won, and most people know it already. Microsoft?s best R&D comes from Apple, and Apple just showed Microsoft how to launch a successful music business. Point, set, and match.

- M4H
 

LethalWolfe

Diamond Member
Apr 14, 2001
3,679
0
0
I think he makes a point here and there. But the artical seems so negative and pessimsitic that I got the feeling that he was being an "anti-zealot" zealot. Where as a Mac zealot always defends Apple, he seemed intent on only tearing down Apple. Of course neither POV, Mac zealot nor anti-zealot zealot, really has a firm grip on reality.


Lethal
 

XMan

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
12,513
49
91
I didn't have to log in to read it?

Anyway, here it is:

My friend has decided to refrain from posting here, he just doesn?t want to lose his job. He told me most of the stuff he would have written so I will do the best I can to relay that information myself. Please do not give anyone my IP address, and remember this information has passed from my friend to me, I don?t have first-hand knowledge about this. I think John will recognize some of it and know that what I am writing is true.

Apple customer service has a rating system for its consumer customers. John is considered a consumer customer at Apple, not a business, because most of John?s hardware is registered in his name, not his company.

My friend works in Texas but some customer reps do not. All of the information my friend relayed to me was gathered by looking at his file and making some inquiries to other friends of his at Apple, not all of them in Texas.

Customers are rated with regard to their own level of skill, novice, skilled, expert, etc. But there are also some code words used to inform customer reps who?s on the other end of the phone line. For instance, say you call Apple constantly, asking them how to set up your email, your browser preferences, or even how to use AppleWorks. Your records will reflect that you are a novice, but it will also reflect that you are a nuisance. Although the rep sees every call you ever made he has this information so he doesn?t have to read all the notes in your file. When he sees that you are a nuisance caller he adjusts his tone and method of helping you. He tries to make it a point that you should be reading online about your problem and not calling Apple, even though it?s your right to do so.

If you happen to be a consumer with several Macs you are given another rating. If you have more than your share of problems you are given another rating. If these problems are small ones you are given yet another rating, if your problems are big ones, yet another. You get the idea. The notes are often too long to read by the rep on the phone so Apple devised a system that tell the rep how to deal with you.

For a long time John was rated as an expert consumer, someone who knows what he?s talking about, so often the reps would bypass a lot of the steps in solving a problem. Stuff like zapping the parameter RAM, dumb things like that. They know it?s a waste of time.

According to Apple records John?s first G4 PowerBook was the 400Mhz. His first problem was the loose battery issue. Apple repaired it by replacing the battery. Modifications were made to the battery that allowed it to sit more firmly.

Apple?s records show that John registered several G4 PowerBooks. Almost everyone had a problem of one sort of another. Each problem was verified to be real problems and all of them were taken care of, for a while.

John was soon rated a problem customer and he was dealt with as a ?suspicious? customer. John was never upgraded and he never asked to be upgraded. I mean John never asked to have a PowerBook replaced by a newer one. The records do show that John wanted his Gforce 4 MX card replaced with another card, but that was denied. My friend and his co-workers wanted to tell customers that the card was fine and all it needed was a good firmware upgrade, but they were told to tell customers their problem was not a problem. Anyway, John?s third Tower had the same problem but he chose not to take another one, even though it was offered. According to the records, it was John who told Executive Relations to close the case. He also had a problem with his 22? cinema display and refused to have it fixed because he didn?t want to be without it. The Executive Relations person in charge wanted to have it fixed and John kept refusing and again asked that the case on it be closed. ?Closed by customer request?

Back to the PowerBooks though. Ask any Apple repair tech and he or she will tell you that the Titanium PowerBook was always problematic. The best one produced is the current one, the 1Ghz with the improved logic board and the better paint. But there are video problems with some of these.

According to the records John called Apple and told them his sound out port was not working on his 1Ghz PowerBook. It was sent in for repair but because of his rating his repair wasn?t covered. He was told that he yanked out a headphone jack too hard, thus it was his problem. John denied doing this. He was also informed that the case was cracked around the PC slot, but my friend said just the paint was cracked, but Apple told him that it would be more than $600 to replace the case. He declined and the case was closed. John denied that the case was cracked when it came in. My friend says that the number of things that happen to a PowerBook while it?s in repair would scare the hell our of anyone. He thinks it?s a good idea to video tape yourself packing up the computer than handing it to Airborne Express and video taping the delivery back to you. How?s that for confidence in Apple??

In a matter of weeks John called back reporting video problems. According to John his screen would flicker. Again it as sent to Texas where it was discovered that the video was a real problem and the logic board was replaced under warranty.

John contacted Executive Relations again during this time and complained. He was then designated as someone to play hardball with. In other words, my friend said AppleCare was basically useless for John because future problems would be deemed his fault no matter what.

The records show that when John called Apple about his shattered screen it was sent to another level of support immediately. He was told flat out that the warranty would not cover the screen, that it was obviously his fault. My friend says that he and several other people there think that there is no way to dismiss his claim without seeing it, but because it was John it was made clear to him that he was out of luck. According to the notes John didn?t argue about it, he asked how much it would be to get fixed. He didn?t commit to getting it fixed. He didn?t insist on elevating the problem either.

Nobody knows why, but Robin Roberts called John and asked that the PowerBook be picked up and sent to Cupertino. The records do not show him calling or writing anyone at Apple. He suspects that someone pointed out John?s column to customer relations and it was handed to Robin.

Robin?s notes indicate that she wanted to resolve the issue and John was amicable. It was sent to Cupertino and two days later notes appeared in his file that indicated there was a single scratch on the lower part of the PowerBook, a few scratches on the bezel and latch and a bit of chocolate on outside of the computer, near the pc slot. Although John says Robin didn?t base her decision on this, she did. John?s PowerBook was not to be covered, not now, not in the future. Robin?s notes make mention about John saying his credit card company was going to reimburse him for the cost and he wanted to get it fixed. Robin indicates that the PowerBook was to be sent back the next morning. But my friend found out it was not, it was held two more days without Robin?s knowledge.

Another interesting thing, and something John reported, was that John did place a call to Apple and reported the screen shattered to a new Tech support person. Bumped up a level, the person wrote it up as a covered repair until he saw the notes. John says the guy said something like ?if it were a 15? screen we would cover it?. Well, that?s not exactly true. The rep was acting as he would with any customer with this problem and as he was filling out the forms he came across the note that said this PowerBook is not to be fixed under any circumstances. That?s when he changed his story and refused to have it fixed under John?s warranty.


My friend says that reading through John?s files is like reading a novel. He had an iPod die on him but refused to get it fixed and instead it says he was ?going to give it away?. And other than the Tower the only problems he?s had were the PowerBooks. My friend says that every single incident he?s had with the PowerBooks were things he sees everyday. Nothing indicates that John ever attempted to upgrade at the cost of Apple, nor does it show that he ever said anything like ?If you don?t fix this I will write about it?. But he is rated badly at Apple because he runs MacNET, buys a lot of hardware and has repeated problems with PowerBooks. Oh, it does say he had an iBook in for repair at the Apple Store and he called back 5 months later with the same problem and was told that the warranty on the part was 90 days. The notes say nothing about any bitching on John?s part.

My friend says that whenever someone like Bob Levitus, as an example, has a problem it?s fixed no questions asked. But Web publishers are looked at as potential problems because a lot of them are younger and are considered hobbyists trying to use their website as leverage.

My friend says most of the people he works with think the PowerBook screen broke due to a misalignment. They have seen several bad latches already and when one sticks and the screen is out of alignment any kind of pressure can shatter it. The place where the shatter begins tells him that it was a pressure break, while the lid was being lifted the glass was jolted a fraction more out of place, just enough to cause it to break.

My friend says that Apple is taking all this very seriously and everybody is reading this. They are praying it stays on the Mac web and a larger source doesn?t pick it up. They want it to go away but it?s really gone to far. The notes say that John is having the charges reversed. The guy named Patrick is the guy that gets all the hardball cases and he is now in charge of this case.

John has never sued Apple and never threatened to, according to the file. They don?t think he will sue in this case either, but they also know that John is telling the truth about the information being leaked because of the IP address of Wieland being posted. Oh, and there is a note that John emailed Robin twice, once telling her about the leaked information. According to my friend someone has been put in charge to find out who leaked it. So far there is nothing about the damage to the PowerBook and John has not called Apple about it. In fact, there is noting in the records about John calling Apple after his conversation with Robin. So John is not making any demands or threats, at least none are being entered in the file.

How will this all play out? I asked my friend and he thinks John will never be able to buy a new Mac and expect to be treated fairly. He says to think about this as like having a police record. He will never be believed, and Apple will never believe someone in Cupertino damaged his PowerBook, but people in Austin know for a fact that this happens. My friend has scratched a few Titanium?s while working on them and when he asked to replace the case his boss said no, blame it on the customer. My friend is the kind of guy that likes to go out of way to help people with PowerBook problems but he is not allowed to, his supervisor has to approve every piece of equipment he uses. He says it?s getting worse and worse.

That?s about it. I recommend that John either switch to a PC or have a friend by his hardware from now on, because he will never be treated right. Is it fair? No, of course not, but this isn?t about being fair. John is mad at Apple and Apple is mad at John. Both have a lot to lose, and Apple wants to this to made right, but have no idea how to proceed. Some people at Apple pray he moves to a PC. The worst part is that every problem John has had have been real ones, but because he writes about them instead of kissing a** like so many other writers they treat him different.

Some people in Texas hate John for what he?s doing and some applaud him. But no one will risk his job over it.

My friend says this ?If you watch the video you can see, as a person who works for Apple anway, that someone did a number of John?s computer while it was in Cupertino, and if I didn?t know better I?d swear it was Jobs himself.?

Pretty sad indictment on Apple.

It's 7:30 in the morning so please excuse the poor typing. John, I hope this doesn't piss you off that I posted this, I tried to be fair and I told the truth, how it was relayed to me anyway.

Michael
 

silent tone

Golden Member
Oct 9, 1999
1,571
1
76
My friend says this ?If you watch the video you can see, as a person who works for Apple anway, that someone did a number of John?s computer while it was in Cupertino, and if I didn?t know better I?d swear it was Jobs himself.?
Jobs is childish and pretentious, but I can't see him getting his assistants to find 'Johns' powerbook in the repair warehouse and go beat on it.
 

Shivatron

Senior member
Apr 9, 2003
342
0
0
I've been following this whole situation since it started (practically). While John is still "seeing red" he raises some very good points.

I especially like that he managed to take a st@b at the RDF too!

[Edit: I know this is a repost, but would someone remind me why st@b is a forbidden word?]
 

UNCjigga

Lifer
Dec 12, 2000
25,595
10,294
136
Notice he makes no mention of iPod while damning Apple's music strategy to hell...I think iPod is pretty successful. Though to be honest, I think Apple would do best to dump the Motorola-powered hardware business and focus on usable software for 97.9% of computer users who don't have a Mac. Hell, release OS X for x86...you'd double sales in a few months, even if it is slow. The market is THAT big. If Steve Jobs is pissed that he can't design cool-looking computers anymore, tell him to leave and start another company (NeXT2 anyone???) or work at an industrial design firm and design PCs.
 

calpha

Golden Member
Mar 7, 2001
1,287
0
0
I think it's a good article all in all. The problems (other then the music service) aren't anything new to Apple. I've not experienced any downside to their customer support, but his point about performance, and especially his point about the ibm 970 are extremely accute IMO.

It's definitely an emotional article too---but as he said---Apple bashing---or Apple negative comments are polarizing by themselves. I'm one of the rare--in the middle types. My wife's a graphic designer chained to a PC at work. There's not a day that goes by where she doesn't wish she had a Mac. Not because it's faster....but because for what she does---it just works better, especially relating to Fonts---PDFs, and getting stuff to the printers (almost all of them still use Macs, and I can't tell you how many times she's had to resubmit a new EPS file.....)

I'll stay out of the music side of the article. Something will be done, and reconfigured, and done again, and done again etc to try and make all of us pay for our downloaded music. Since I'm one of the rare ones that 95% of my MP3s are personally ripped by me (30 gigs at last count)----I am adamanatly against any DRMA, RIAA, Microsoft, whoever the hell else, imposing some sort of copyright (read: palladin) on my computer----Even if Microsoft does adopt a windows I-Tune before Apple releases it---there's still a long way to go.

The Imacs rescued Apple a few years ago---and they've been living off of them for a while. The processors are slow----but the niche market of graphics and education still exists. Apple Dead.....not IMO any time soon----Support stinking---hell even Dell's support for me has hit the sh!tter as of late. More and more companies are moving to the "prioritized" support based on customer profile---so if you're a joe schmoe like me----your odds of getting good support rests solely on the luck of the draw.

Thanks for the article---I enjoyed reading it. Too bad about his 17" Powerbook---I'd never buy one even if I had the $$$....17" for a notebood is just too big. It's enough to lug my 15" dell around.
 

Chaotic42

Lifer
Jun 15, 2001
34,851
2,020
126
Wow, I read the whole thing.

He makes a lot of valid points, especially about giving Gates time to create his own online music store.

I've used a Mac once in about 10 years. It was to print up an English 101 report, and it crapped out, so I'm not the right person to comment on the quality or speed of Apple's hardware or software.

I'd like to see Apple's responce.

 

LethalWolfe

Diamond Member
Apr 14, 2001
3,679
0
0
Originally posted by: uncJIGGA
Notice he makes no mention of iPod while damning Apple's music strategy to hell...I think iPod is pretty successful. Though to be honest, I think Apple would do best to dump the Motorola-powered hardware business and focus on usable software for 97.9% of computer users who don't have a Mac. Hell, release OS X for x86...you'd double sales in a few months, even if it is slow. The market is THAT big. If Steve Jobs is pissed that he can't design cool-looking computers anymore, tell him to leave and start another company (NeXT2 anyone???) or work at an industrial design firm and design PCs.


If Apple went software only and released it's OS and proggies to anyone w/a PC they'd be dead inside 2 years. Running x86 in propriatary box might happen someday, but running on any x86 machine will not happen (at least as long as MS is an 8000 pound gorilla). Most people are saying watch out for this July when Apple might announce new machines powered by IBM's 970 PPC.


Lethal
 

Go3iverson

Senior member
Apr 16, 2000
273
0
0
I don't get it. I've always gotten superb service if I've needed help from Apple. My PowerBook arrived with some battery and sound issues. Mailed it in, sent it back, same great shape. Everything corrected and I got an extra power adapter and battery out of the deal for my trouble.

A server I've been running on a 533 G4 died. Power went out one day and the machine didn't restart. Apple replaced the HD and mobo and had it back to me within a couple days.

I've liked the AAC audio. Maybe its the tracks he bought? Got me. The one's I purchased sound great on my home theater and car.

Nothing's perfect and I'm not saying Apple is, but this guy is obviously bitter. I've been using Apple products for six or seven years and I've never experienced anything like this guy is talking about.

Take it for what its worth.