MacBook Air vs Acer Aspire S3 vs Asus ZenBook

[RobertPters77]

This Ultrabook BS pisses me off.

Not because they fall flat of expectations. No it's because they've given more fuel to the fire that everybody copies apple. I see no point the MBA/Ultrabook. The amount of performance you give up for that half an inch is astounding.

If somehow they actually made ultrabooks better than the Air equivalents by atleast 20-30% performance wise and matched the airs price for price then hell yeah why not?

I understand that some people might have a need for such thin notebooks. But the majority do not. I admit it looks cool. But it's useless for almost all practical purposes.

 

[the DRIZZLE]

This Ultrabook BS pisses me off.

Not because they fall flat of expectations. No it's because they've given more fuel to the fire that everybody copies apple. I see no point the MBA/Ultrabook. The amount of performance you give up for that half an inch is astounding.

If somehow they actually made ultrabooks better than the Air equivalents by atleast 20-30% performance wise and matched the airs price for price then hell yeah why not?

I understand that some people might have a need for such thin notebooks. But the majority do not. I admit it looks cool. But it's useless for almost all practical purposes.

I wouldn't confuse your lifestyle for everyone else's. Due to the nature of my work/school I need to have my laptop with me 24/7 but I never do more than basic office tasks. Ultrabooks are perfect for me. I think there a lot of people who place a high value on portability and battery life.

 

[Bateluer]

I wouldn't confuse your lifestyle for everyone else's. Due to the nature of my work/school I need to have my laptop with me 24/7 but I never do more than basic office tasks. Ultrabooks are perfect for me. I think there a lot of people who place a high value on portability and battery life.

Second. I don't think the ultrabook class gets great battery life though, ~5-6hrs.

 

[vbuggy]

Second. I don't think the ultrabook class gets great battery life though, ~5-6hrs.

I think RobertPters77 has a point though in that the low-end manufacturers seem only be able to copy Apple in the 'looks like' stakes, while offering none of the attention to detail / genuine layman-pleaser aspects that makes Apple products what they are.

It's almost as though they're actively helping Apple.

Mind you, this might be down to the Apple-addled tech press. You intro a product that has even relatively tenuous connections to an Apple product that the reviewer is comfortable with and worships, you stand a better chance of getting a good review than something totally different.

When manufacturers do intro a product which is genuinely different, or caters actually for people who know what they're buying, reviewers get all poe-faced and faux-objective.

Pandering to the likes of these tech-egotist-pundits in the belief they represent the arbiter of public taste is I think ultimately self-destructive though to those makers.

 

[Bateluer]

The amount of performance you give up for that half an inch is astounding.

I don't quite follow this statement. There's a number of larger notebooks that pack a Core i5/7 SnB with the HD3000 IGP, which effectively offers near identical performance as the ultrabook form factor. The SnB i5s in these base models is more than fast enough for most people's general use. Email, chat, web serving, office work, etc, all more than do-able on any of these Ultrabook models. The only thing I think you really lose is a discrete GPU, which really only effects gaming performance, and isn't a factor for most of the customer base.

I think RobertPters77 has a point though in that the low-end manufacturers seem only be able to copy Apple in the 'looks like' stakes, while offering none of the attention to detail / genuine layman-pleaser aspects that makes Apple products what they are.

Asus makes products from low end to high end, and generally very good quality for the amount of money you spend.

 

[alent1234]

This Ultrabook BS pisses me off.

Not because they fall flat of expectations. No it's because they've given more fuel to the fire that everybody copies apple. I see no point the MBA/Ultrabook. The amount of performance you give up for that half an inch is astounding.

If somehow they actually made ultrabooks better than the Air equivalents by atleast 20-30% performance wise and matched the airs price for price then hell yeah why not?

I understand that some people might have a need for such thin notebooks. But the majority do not. I admit it looks cool. But it's useless for almost all practical purposes.

10 years ago they were called subnetbooks

they were meant for PHB types who traveled a lot and needed a small and light laptop for email

fast forward to 2011. people want a light and fast laptop for email, web, photo editing and some other light work. MBA delivers with the right price, good build quality and good support

unless acer and asus can sell the same specs for much cheaper than apple i'm going to buy a MBA just to avoid dealing with anyone else but apple for support

between my wife and i we have 2 iphones and an ipad 2. with a MBA all the photos will go to the MBA automatically for her to do some light editing

 

[RobertPters77]

@buggy

Correct. Imitating apple always backfires on the PC industry and propels apple forward. And worst of all it propagates age old myths from the 80s.

@alent

Exactly. Asus and Acer's support is mediocre compared to apple's. If I had to; I'd buy an MBA and install windows on it, instead of buying an ultrabook.

 

[vbuggy]

Exactly. Asus and Acer's support is mediocre compared to apple's. If I had to; I'd buy an MBA and install windows on it, instead of buying an ultrabook.

This is shooting yourself in the foot too. It's not a Windows machine, no matter what Boot Camp claims. In this case, you definitely might as well spend less on an Ultrabook for less compromise - or wallet up and get the Z - unless you're that metro that you have to carry an Apple badge.

I

 

[runawayprisoner]

This is shooting yourself in the foot too. It's not a Windows machine, no matter what Boot Camp claims. In this case, you definitely might as well spend less on an Ultrabook for less compromise - or wallet up and get the Z - unless you're that metro that you have to carry an Apple badge.

Aside from missing a BIOS, or nostalgic DOS bootscreen, what about the Macbook Air that makes it not a Windows machine?

 

[vbuggy]

Aside from missing a BIOS, or nostalgic DOS bootscreen, what about the Macbook Air that makes it not a Windows machine?

Lack of power management
Lack of stability (comparatively speaking)
Lack of thermal management (this is a general Apple flaw, not simply a problem in Windows)
CPU+IGP use clock-locking / downclocking when it's not called for (and what similar actually Windows machines don't do)
Lack of proper layout keyboard
Lack of startup speed (relevant if you've invested in an SSD machine - <15 secs on a current genuine Windows machine with a faster BIOS in the i5 class with a decent SSD, and <50 secs on an i7, 256Gb 11-inch to get to the logon screen). This is the #1 factor in the giveaway of 'Not a Windows Machine' in that it's clearly deliberately crippled - I *very* much doubt that it's a case of 'we didn't bother to optimise'.

Need I go on?

 

[Bateluer]

Some numbers and impressions from Asus's Zenbook.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4982/asus-zenbook-ux21-mbalike-battery-life-under-windows-7

Not too shabby, looking forward to the full review.

 

[Bateluer]

http://www.engadget.com/2011/10/21/asus-zenbook-ux31-review/

The UX31 is available in three configurations. We tested the $1,099 entry level model, which, again, has a Core i5-2557M processor, 4GB of RAM and a 128GB SATA III drive. For $1,349, you can get it with the same processor and a larger 256GB drive. Lastly, the top-end $1,449 configuration combines a 256GB drive and a Core i7-2677M CPU. Across the board, you'll get 4GB of RAM.

For what it is, it's aggressively priced. Now it's true, we were all expecting Ultrabooks to ring in at less than $1,000 -- &#224; la the Aspire S3 -- but considering the entry-level UX31 has better specs than the base MacBook Air and undercuts it by two hundred dollars, it's a pretty sweet deal. Allow us to explain: both laptops have a 1.7GHz Core i7 processor, 4GB of RAM and 128GB of solid-state storage, though the UX31 packs a SATA III drive, in particular. The Air's 1440 x 900 display is lower-res, but then again, it's also indisputably gorgeous.

On the other hand, if you opt for an Air you'll be getting a comfier keyboard and a more precise trackpad. And in terms of ports, the two are well-matched: both have twin USB 2.0 ports, and while the Air has a Thunderbolt port, the UX31 has mini-HDMI and mini-VGA. Either way, you'll forgo HDMI and USB 3.0 -- something Toshiba and Lenovo's Ultrabooks offer.

Engadget likes it.

 

[sygyzy]

The Zenbook is probably replacing my UL30VT

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

People need to move away from the shitty 1366x768 screen res... I'm not buying anything until I can get a usable screen with at least 1440x900. Preferably 1680.

 

[Schadenfreude]

People need to move away from the shitty 1366x768 screen res... I'm not buying anything until I can get a usable screen with at least 1440x900. Preferably 1680.

The Asus UX31 comes w/ 1600x900 display standard.

 

[Bateluer]

People need to move away from the shitty 1366x768 screen res... I'm not buying anything until I can get a usable screen with at least 1440x900. Preferably 1680.

On an 11in screen, 1366x768 is fine.

The Asus UX31 comes w/ 1600x900 display standard.

On the 13in model, I believe the 11in model is 1366x768.

 

[runawayprisoner]

Lack of power management
Lack of stability (comparatively speaking)
Lack of thermal management (this is a general Apple flaw, not simply a problem in Windows)
CPU+IGP use clock-locking / downclocking when it's not called for (and what similar actually Windows machines don't do)

Any proof or article to this? Because I'm not seeing it on my Core 2 Duo 13" Air. CPU-Z reports normal SpeedStep and clocks.

Lack of proper layout keyboard

That's true. I didn't realize the lack of a Delete button but that's one flaw that's annoying enough.

Lack of startup speed (relevant if you've invested in an SSD machine - <15 secs on a current genuine Windows machine with a faster BIOS in the i5 class with a decent SSD, and <50 secs on an i7, 256Gb 11-inch to get to the logon screen). This is the #1 factor in the giveaway of 'Not a Windows Machine' in that it's clearly deliberately crippled - I *very* much doubt that it's a case of 'we didn't bother to optimise'.

Macbook Air comes standard with an SSD so I don't see how there is any "lack" in startup speed.

Need I go on?

Yes, please. But before that, please address my question.

 

[Sunburn74]

Man you pixel addicts, I never really understood the allure. I honestly have no issue with 1366x768 and never have. I use my laptop for light duty, and have a big freaking screen at home for anything more serious. Even for gaming its fine (play l4d2 at that res and its fine). Anything about 14 inches needs a res bump, but I really have to disagree with you guys elsewhere.

BTW I read the engadget review of the asus. It looks like a very sexy machine, but I can't pay 1099 for something that is 1/4 as powerful as a similarly priced desktop. I'd rather just grab a dell v131 (which is still crazy thin and has awesome battery life) or an HP envy and add a SSD. The most I'd pay for that sort of machine is like 750, maybe 800 if I was feeling generous. Still very nice machine and I'm amazed they were able to pull it off at 200 less than the macbook air with better parts in almost everyway.

 

[vbuggy]

Any proof or article to this? Because I'm not seeing it on my Core 2 Duo 13" Air. CPU-Z reports normal SpeedStep and clocks.

Post back when you have an actually current machine. If you're using both the IGP and CPU, performance (especially of IGP) drops off a cliff, certainly in Windows.

Macbook Air comes standard with an SSD so I don't see how there is any "lack" in startup speed.

My 11 and 13-inch Air's (256Gb, i7) takes ~50 seconds from pressing the power button to boot to the logon screen in Windows in Boot Camp. A $700 i5 Probook 6360b retrofitted with an SSD takes ~10 seconds.

Once again, I hope that's clear to someone with clearly no experience of a current product (let alone anything better) and is simply assuming with his Cupertino-asslicking glasses on.

 

[alent1234]

How fast is os x to start up

 

[runawayprisoner]

Post back when you have an actually current machine. If you're using both the IGP and CPU, performance (especially of IGP) drops off a cliff, certainly in Windows.

My 11 and 13-inch Air's (256Gb, i7) takes ~50 seconds from pressing the power button to boot to the logon screen in Windows in Boot Camp. A $700 i5 Probook 6360b retrofitted with an SSD takes ~10 seconds.

Once again, I hope that's clear to someone with clearly no experience of a current product (let alone anything better) and is simply assuming with his Cupertino-asslicking glasses on.

I may not have any experience with a current product, but I do with its previous generation. And judging from your statement, I can at least conclude that the 2011 MBA line has more problems than the 2010 line.

The 2010 line doesn't suffer from any GPU performance degradation, as reported from GPU-Z and from actual experience working in ArchiCAD.

But you are right in that a heavily tweaked laptop with a very good BIOS can boot Windows 7 up in 10s. Boot time of the Air into both Windows and OSX is indeed very long, but isn't it supposed to be a one-time thing where the user would be more likely to close the lid and let the machine go to sleep instead? Or is your usage different?

And please lay off the mild personal attack. Not everyone wants to jump on a next-generation device mindlessly without weighing the pros and cons between the two. I merely asked a question out of curiosity.

How fast is os x to start up

Pretty long for an SSD-fitted device, actually. But it's usually a one-time thing. Subsequently, wake time from hibernation depends entirely on which OS it is. Lion takes 5 seconds, Snow Leopard takes 2...

That's why I don't like the 2011 line. Despite the faster CPU, the GPU is slower, and the general feel of the device is slower but it's stuck on Lion so there is no way to go back to Snow Leopard.

 

[vbuggy]

But you are right in that a heavily tweaked laptop with a very good BIOS can boot Windows 7 up in 10s. Boot time of the Air into both Windows and OSX is indeed very long, but isn't it supposed to be a one-time thing where the user would be more likely to close the lid and let the machine go to sleep instead? Or is your usage different?

Not tweaked at all. Standard quick boot on that particular notebook, no optimisations. In fact, even 'long' BIOS's on some machines means ~12-second times to the logon screen.

Usage mode is irrelevant. I was pointing to the apparently engineered delay as one of the root intentions / it not being a 'Windows machine' as you queried. There is zero genuine - or should I say valid - reason for the discrepancy.

I merely asked a question out of curiosity.

No you didn't. And I stand by *everything* I said.

@alent1234 ~17 seconds to login screen. That's from pressing the power button. I know many Mactards measure from the 'apple' as many Wintards measure from the 'Starting Windows' display, but I see zero point in that. i7 with 256Gb, the fastest one I have. Apple ships fairly differing SSD's on even the same models, so boot times differ by a couple of seconds or so across all of my (all maxed, be it 11 or 13") Air's.

 

[CurseTheSky]

Ugh, if I hadn't just bought a notebook last year, and if I wasn't interested to see what Ivy Bridge brings in terms of power savings, I'd be seriously considering a UX31 right now. That, and I want to see how the screen quality is and if there are any unusual issues (WiFi, like the Samsung Series 9, for example).

Then again, I'm seriously considering it anyway.

 

[vbuggy]

I don't understand why the wifi issue has been blown up so much on the Series 9, especially when hardly anyone mentions the even cruddier Air's. It's not terrible, just not that great.

 

[runawayprisoner]

Not tweaked at all. Standard quick boot on that particular notebook, no optimisations. In fact, even 'long' BIOS's on some machines means ~12-second times to the logon screen.

Usage mode is irrelevant. I was pointing to the apparently engineered delay as one of the root intentions / it not being a 'Windows machine' as you queried. There is zero genuine - or should I say valid - reason for the discrepancy.

No you didn't. And I stand by *everything* I said.

So according to you, it's not a Windows machine because it doesn't boot as fast, and you personally have problems with power management and all those things whereas there isn't a lot of people who have the same problems?

I did just ask a question. How you came to the conclusion that I did not is beyond me, but if that's sincerely how you want to approach the discussion, then I think this will be my last query.