Mac pro alternative?

[ss284]

So my GF needs a powerful box for doing economics work. She is seriously considering a Mac pro and I might have to let her do it, which is heartbreaking. I really, really hate Apple but I can't find a decent alternative for a similar cost. Requirements are good warranty support, build quality, and general reliability.

The system we are looking at is the standard 12 core system with the 2.93ghz (x5670) upgrade:

http://store.apple.com/us_smb_78313/...co=MTg2OTQ5OTk

I can do the 32/64GB ram upgrade myself and toss in a decent SSD or two.

Similarly configured systems from dell are just as expensive, if not more, and honestly after my dealings with dell, their support is nothing compared to apple's.

She also prefers the look of the Mac Pro case, and I think the interior of the case is quite well laid out.

But it is still an Apple product. Help.

 

[ss284]

I also wanted to add that the academic discount knocks off another 10% from the mac config.

 

[Blain]

So my GF needs a powerful box for doing economics work. She is seriously considering a Mac pro and I might have to let her do it, which is heartbreaking. I really, really hate Apple but I can't find a decent alternative for a similar cost. Requirements are good warranty support, build quality, and general reliability.

The system we are looking at is the standard 12 core system with the 2.93ghz (x5670) upgrade:

http://store.apple.com/us_smb_78313/...co=MTg2OTQ5OTk

I can do the 32/64GB ram upgrade myself and toss in a decent SSD or two.

Similarly configured systems from dell are just as expensive, if not more, and honestly after my dealings with dell, their support is nothing compared to apple's.

She also prefers the look of the Mac Pro case, and I think the interior of the case is quite well laid out.

But it is still an Apple product. Help.

She wants a Mac Pro,
Apple has good support,
You can do the upgrades yourself,
She likes how a Mac Pro looks,
The case is well designed,
She can get a 10% discount...

I don't understand why you "really, really hate Apple".
What's your beef?

 

[Numenorean]

Edit - Thought it said Mac Book...

In that case. Build a custom system.

 

[mnewsham]

Okay well knock off 1,200 right away by NOT upgrading to the x5670, you are (or should be) getting the 12 cores for many tasks or highly threaded tasks and usually not for the clock speed, if you really need the bump in clock speed then i guess its okay, but do you REALLY need it? ($1,200 worth of needing it) I would build one myself but it doesnt sound like that is an option because of warranty you want and build quality.

 

[ss284]

In that case. Build a custom system.

Warranty, support, and as little hassle as possible are crucial.

Okay well knock off 1,200 right away by NOT upgrading to the x5670, you are (or should be) getting the 12 cores for many tasks or highly threaded tasks and usually not for the clock speed, if you really need the bump in clock speed then i guess its okay, but do you REALLY need it? ($1,200 worth of needing it).

You bring up a great point. I'll do some benchmarks on her current system this weekend. The software she uses is heavily threaded, but I don't know how well it responds to minor bumps in clock speed. If the performance increase is linear(10%) or so, the cost is probably worth it to her.

I don't understand why you "really, really hate Apple".
What's your beef?

I hate apple as a company, but I respect the engineering behind their products. BTW, she isn't that fond of apple either.

 

[mfenn]

Fun fact: Dell has different call centers depending on if you have a consumer or "enterprise" machine. The Dell enterprise guys are really quite good. Thus, my advice is to get a Dell Precision. You're correct that it costs about the same as a Mac Pro, but that's because workstation-class parts cost real money. The Apple tax on the Mac Pro is really quite low.

PS: You'll want to do memory in multiples of 12GB for a Westmere system like what you're looking at.

 

[theevilsharpie]

Look at the HP Z800 Workstation. They have a pre-configured model with dual Intel Xeon X5650's that retails for $4,600. Provantage is selling that particular model for a little over $3,600.

http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en...6-4347378.html

http://www.provantage.com/hewlett-pa...a~7CMPK18M.htm

 

[Blain]

I don't understand why you "really, really hate Apple".
What's your beef?

I hate apple as a company, but I respect the engineering behind their products.

Thank you for repeating yourself, but you've still shed no light on why you revile Apple with every fiber of your being.

 

[BurnItDwn]

Thank you for repeating yourself, but you've still shed no light on why you revile Apple with every fiber of your being.

It could be how apple tends to focus on image and style over actual substance in most cases....

As a rule of thumb, apple usually charges around 50% premium over other companies for their image and name recognition.

 

[mfenn]

As a rule of thumb, apple usually charges around 50% premium over other companies for their image and name recognition.

Come on man, if you're not going to read the posts by people who know what they're talking about, at least do your own research. I just now specced out a Mac Pro and a Dell T5500 with dual X5650s, 24GB of RAM, hardware RAID 1 of 1TB sata drives. The Mac Pro was $6900 and the T5500 was $7108. It took all of 2 minutes to do.

 

[Davidh373]

Boxx computers

http://www.boxxtech.com/

Dell Studio XPS

http://www.dell.com/us/p/studio-xps...329,774297024,1302223017,,12299917,5699085501

As a rule of thumb, apple usually charges around 50% premium over other companies for their image and name recognition.

Apple does not overcharge, it's just that a lot of average users don't need the specs of a Mac Pro (Dual Xeons, ect. ect.) and they are behind on graphics drivers. They certainly are not for the everyday user, spreadsheets, or the gamer. For the 3D professional looking to buy a powerful workstation, Apple is no better or worse than Dell or HP. The only way you can save yourself from this is to build a rig yourself, but this means you will be support for it as well.

 

[BurnItDwn]

Come on man, if you're not going to read the posts by people who know what they're talking about, at least do your own research. I just now specced out a Mac Pro and a Dell T5500 with dual X5650s, 24GB of RAM, hardware RAID 1 of 1TB sata drives. The Mac Pro was $6900 and the T5500 was $7108. It took all of 2 minutes to do.

I'm not talking about how much it costs to buy one particular piece of hardware today, I mean the trend over time. Since the 90s, if you needed a regular PC, apple generally had about 20-50% higher prices for comparable hardware.

In certain niche markets their products are priced very competitively.

In this particular sector, high end workstations, generally over $4000, all OEMs have healthy markups, so this is an example of where the general rule does not apply.

You can build something comparable yourself and it would likely cost less, but, then no OEM support, etc... which you obviously don't want for a bigger investment

Are you blind to all the years where you could get a decent PC for $800 and a mac with equivalent performance would be $1200?

 

[BurnItDwn]

Boxx computers

http://www.boxxtech.com/

Dell Studio XPS

http://www.dell.com/us/p/studio-xps...329,774297024,1302223017,,12299917,5699085501



Apple does not overcharge, it's just that a lot of average users don't need the specs of a Mac Pro (Dual Xeons, ect. ect.) and they are behind on graphics drivers. They certainly are not for the everyday user, spreadsheets, or the gamer. For the 3D professional looking to buy a powerful workstation, Apple is no better or worse than Dell or HP. The only way you can save yourself from this is to build a rig yourself, but this means you will be support for it as well.

I agree with everything that you've said.
My point was a "general' rule, which does not apply to high end workstations.

 

[Adam4517]

How about an envy 14? they are small, powerful, cheaper, better looking

 

[Davidh373]

How about an envy 14? they are small, powerful, cheaper, better looking

I dunno about cheaper, but certainly a PC and not a Mac. Also, She wants a desktop, not a laptop.

 

[mfenn]

I'm not talking about how much it costs to buy one particular piece of hardware today, I mean the trend over time. Since the 90s, if you needed a regular PC, apple generally had about 20-50% higher prices for comparable hardware.

In certain niche markets their products are priced very competitively.

In this particular sector, high end workstations, generally over $4000, all OEMs have healthy markups, so this is an example of where the general rule does not apply.

You can build something comparable yourself and it would likely cost less, but, then no OEM support, etc... which you obviously don't want for a bigger investment

Are you blind to all the years where you could get a decent PC for $800 and a mac with equivalent performance would be $1200?

And yet, this thread is about high-end workstations.

 

[Davidh373]

And yet, this thread is about high-end workstations.

Even if it wasn't, Apple does not have a 50% upcharge for comparable hardware.

Lets look at the iMac

27" Costs $1900 with 4GB RAM, 1TB HDD, and HD 5670. The monitor is also IPS.

So, here we go.

HP - No comparable Hardware. But lets do this anyway

The closest comparable product HP has is a 21.5" all in one with an i5 650, 1TB HDD and 4GB RAM. It is $850. So then you say, what about that 27" IPS Monitor that's built in?

http://configure.us.dell.com/dellsto...cs=19&oc=U2711

Boom, $1099.99

HP Price - $849.99 + $1099.99 = $1949.98

Apple Price - $1899.99

Wow, surprisingly similar... (You're welcome to criticize the difference in res.)

Dell - No comparable Hardware.

Closest comparable product is

http://configure.us.dell.com/dellsto...en&s=dhs&cs=19

Dell Price - $949.99 + $1099.99 = $2049.98

This is older, worse hardware than the HP or Apple for MORE money.

Mac Pro - We've already settled this...

Macbook Pro 15" - I'll compare the 15" with the Sandy Bridge i7 2.0Ghz with 4GB RAM to the Envy with the i7 1.73Ghz with 4GB RAM.

Apple price - $1899.99

HP price - $1574.99

BUT, this is an older generation of Intel processors, which is not only slower per clock, but it's clocked lower. So that is that.

Tell me, where is the ~50% upcharge? I mean, I know you retreated in one of your more recent posts to 20%-50% upcharge, but not even the low end of your accusation is true. So where did you get those numbers? Or are you just echoing what everyone tends to think?

There are much better reasons to hate Apple. I know I do, but why do you find it's needed to spread misinformation?

 

[ss284]

I don't think it's 50% anymore, but the 20%+ is definitely still the typical upcharge.

Case in point for your macbook 15 inch reference:

http://configure.us.dell.com/dellsto...l_id=xps-l502x

Regardless, the upcharge for apple's higher end workstations is generally less, although the HP that was linked to earlier is quite well priced. Thanks for the insight, I'll be doing some more research this weekend.

 

[blinblue]

So really quick builds on newegg are up around 3.5k for similar config as the apple but with 24GB of RAM, 4x 1TB of hard drive. I left out any OS though since I'd imagine your be using some sort of *unix. Is $1500k premium (vs the stock 12 core mac pro) worth it to you? Even if something dies, not even the CPU costs $1500


Oh, and in terms of the whole Apple vs other pricing. As has been noted workstation prices for Apple are are par with the rest of the industry. However, the big reason why I'd say apple is over priced is that while comparing random Apple config to similar dell/hp/etc config will come up with somewhat similar prices, Apple stuff never goes on any sort of sale. Whereas if you browse around on slickdeals/fatwallet for a few weeks, you'll see some amazing deals go buy (15" i7 laptops, 1080p, 1TB HDD, 6gb DDR3, blu-ray for like $800 for example). Apple couldn't touch that.


Also, if you are willing to go with the E5645 instead of the E5650 (which I'm pretty sure the Apple one is using) you could also check out the HP Z800, was able to configure a similar one for about $4000 (less if you are willing to do the ram, some hard drives or video card yourself).


Out of curiosity, what kind of stuff will she be doing that requires such high end hardware? and why doesn't whoever she is doing it for provide her with such hardware? If she is a student perhaps she can look around at getting the school to purchase a workstation for her (and ask around at various departments. The physics department where I went to school was told by the campus IT that they had $5000 left over in their computer budget and they'd be happy to buy a nice server for us)