Mac Os 9 Vs OS X

[MajorPayne]

Hi everyone, I am a soon to be Mac owner (I have owned and built PC's for a long time, but a new project at work requires me to use some Mac software at home). I have purchased a used G3 on Ebay for $80.00, and it comes with Mac OS 9.2.2. I have heard that Mac Os X is a better operating system from some, but I have also heard that Mac OS 9 is better (and more stable). The other consideration is that I have heard that Mac OS9 can be faster on older machine(and this one is an older one) and that some of the shiny effects may not work with older PCI-based graphics cards (which this one has). I WILL be integrating this machine with my existing Windows network, and sharing files though, and I have heard that this is easier under OS-X variants. My question is... Would I be better off sticking with OS9, or spending some money to upgrade to OS X, and if so, which variant of OS X would be the best one, considering the age of my hardware? The specs on the system I bought are:

300 MHz PowerPC 750 G3 Processor
6 GB Hard Drive
128 MB RAM
512 KB Level 2 Backside Cache
24x CD ROM
Built in 10/100 BASE-T Ethernet
16 MB ATI 3D Rage 128 GL Video
2 USB ports, 2 FireWire Ports
1 ADB Mac Peripheral Port
3 Open PCI Slots
Apple Design Keyboard and Mouse II
Power Cord
On the HD: Mac OS 9.2.2, & AppleWorks 6.2

Please bear in mind as well, that while I am brand new to owning macs, I have used them before (and liked them), and desire to learn as much as possible (which is part of the reason I am looking at OS-X, since I have heard it's *nix core makes it more customizable/tweakable).

 

[n0cmonkey]

OS 9 is dead. Upgrade your hardware.

 

[MajorPayne]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
OS 9 is dead. Upgrade your hardware.

Gee, thanks for the useful reply... I will not have the ability to upgrade the Mac for at least a couple of months (I bought the particular hardware setup that my works needs, and I cannot go outside of spec while running thier stuff), but eventually I would like to get a newer one.

For this reason, I am looking to find out what OS will be the best for me on THIS particular set of hardware. And also, not everyone gets the newest OS out there. I know several people who still keep Windows98SE on thier machines because they feel that everything since has been a dis-improvement!

So does anyone else have anything to say about this?

 

[MisterChief]

OS X. Period.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: MajorPayne

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
OS 9 is dead. Upgrade your hardware.

Gee, thanks for the useful reply... I will not have the ability to upgrade the Mac for at least a couple of months (I bought the particular hardware setup that my works needs, and I cannot go outside of spec while running thier stuff), but eventually I would like to get a newer one.

For this reason, I am looking to find out what OS will be the best for me on THIS particular set of hardware. And also, not everyone gets the newest OS out there. I know several people who still keep Windows98SE on thier machines because they feel that everything since has been a dis-improvement!

So does anyone else have anything to say about this?

OS 9 is dead. There are no more updates to it.

Does the software you will be using run on OS 9? What about OS 10?

Does that spec specify the amount of ram you can have? If so, forget OS X unless it's a necessity.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Oh, OS 9 is not more stable than 10.

OS 9 does not integrate cleanly into a heterogeneous network. To access or create CIFS/SMB shares, you'll need a third part package like Dave. OS X has Samba built in. OS X can authenticate to a Microsoft AD.

 

[mikecel79]

My friend has a PowerMac G4 500Mhz 384MB running OSX (10.1 I think) and it runs pretty good but I wouldn't call it fast. He uses it mostly for editing wedding videos and surfing the web.

A 300Mhz G3 with only 128MB would be a stretch for the latest version of OSX. As much as I dislike OS9 I think OSX would run far to slow on that machine. Maybe if you upgrade the memory and put in a faster drive and find a copy of OSX 10.0 or 10.1 you can run it on there.

 

[MajorPayne]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
Oh, OS 9 is not more stable than 10.

OS 9 does not integrate cleanly into a heterogeneous network. To access or create CIFS/SMB shares, you'll need a third part package like Dave. OS X has Samba built in. OS X can authenticate to a Microsoft AD.

The network question is one that has been looming for me. And from my experience supporting several people with G3 series Imacs (different but similar), Mac OS9 does not multitask well either. I did wonder if OS X had Samba, because I have heard that Windows/Mac network communication was supported natively. Thanks for pointing these out.... More for me to think about I guess.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: mikecel79
My friend has a PowerMac G4 500Mhz 384MB running OSX (10.1 I think) and it runs pretty good but I wouldn't call it fast. He uses it mostly for editing wedding videos and surfing the web.

A 300Mhz G3 with only 128MB would be a stretch for the latest version of OSX. As much as I dislike OS9 I think OSX would run far to slow on that machine. Maybe if you upgrade the memory and put in a faster drive and find a copy of OSX 10.0 or 10.1 you can run it on there.

OS X 10.0 is slower than 10.1 is slower than 10.2 is slower than 10.3. 10.1 was usable on my 500mhz g3 He would want 10.3, but he would definitely need more ram.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: MajorPayne

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
Oh, OS 9 is not more stable than 10.

OS 9 does not integrate cleanly into a heterogeneous network. To access or create CIFS/SMB shares, you'll need a third part package like Dave. OS X has Samba built in. OS X can authenticate to a Microsoft AD.

The network question is one that has been looming for me. And from my experience supporting several people with G3 series Imacs (different but similar), Mac OS9 does not multitask well either. I did wonder if OS X had Samba, because I have heard that Windows/Mac network communication was supported natively. Thanks for pointing these out.... More for me to think about I guess.

Still, two big questions:
Can you upgrade the ram?
Does the application you bought this for require one or the other?

See, I'm useful sometimes.

 

[MajorPayne]

Originally posted by: mikecel79
My friend has a PowerMac G4 500Mhz 384MB running OSX (10.1 I think) and it runs pretty good but I wouldn't call it fast. He uses it mostly for editing wedding videos and surfing the web.

A 300Mhz G3 with only 128MB would be a stretch for the latest version of OSX. As much as I dislike OS9 I think OSX would run far to slow on that machine. Maybe if you upgrade the memory and put in a faster drive and find a copy of OSX 10.0 or 10.1 you can run it on there.

I MAY be able to upgrade the memory (I do not think that should put the system out of spec). I can definitely upgrade the hard drive (I have a 40GB 7200 RPM drive at home which is just waiting for its new mac home to arrive), and I WILL be OC'ng the processor as much as possible (research has told me that these G3's are easy to overclock using the jumper block, and almost all can hit at least 400MHZ with no additional cooling).

If I AM able to upgrade the memory, I have several 128mb sticks of PC100 and PC133 laying around at home. Are Mac's (or at least this series of G3) picky about the type of RAM used, and if so, what do the require?

 

[MajorPayne]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: MajorPayne

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
Oh, OS 9 is not more stable than 10.

OS 9 does not integrate cleanly into a heterogeneous network. To access or create CIFS/SMB shares, you'll need a third part package like Dave. OS X has Samba built in. OS X can authenticate to a Microsoft AD.

The network question is one that has been looming for me. And from my experience supporting several people with G3 series Imacs (different but similar), Mac OS9 does not multitask well either. I did wonder if OS X had Samba, because I have heard that Windows/Mac network communication was supported natively. Thanks for pointing these out.... More for me to think about I guess.

Still, two big questions:
Can you upgrade the ram?
Does the application you bought this for require one or the other?

See, I'm useful sometimes.

I do not know if I can upgrade the ram (my work has some specific requirements they want me to stick to for the testing period). It is in-house software we are designing, and what the purpose of this system is, is to test usability with the MINIMUM system, so I cannot upgrade too far. Some of our office still have older hardware comperable to this, so we are shooting for ensuring no problems at this level of a Mac. Then I get to keep the project computer afterwards!

Oh, and sorry for grumping at you earlier. Sometimes when people ask questions about older hardware/software, people just go "throw it away and upgrade", and do not offer any real advice. I appreciate the help.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: MajorPayne

Originally posted by: mikecel79
My friend has a PowerMac G4 500Mhz 384MB running OSX (10.1 I think) and it runs pretty good but I wouldn't call it fast. He uses it mostly for editing wedding videos and surfing the web.

A 300Mhz G3 with only 128MB would be a stretch for the latest version of OSX. As much as I dislike OS9 I think OSX would run far to slow on that machine. Maybe if you upgrade the memory and put in a faster drive and find a copy of OSX 10.0 or 10.1 you can run it on there.

I MAY be able to upgrade the memory (I do not think that should put the system out of spec). I can definitely upgrade the hard drive (I have a 40GB 7200 RPM drive at home which is just waiting for its new mac home to arrive), and I WILL be OC'ng the processor as much as possible (research has told me that these G3's are easy to overclock using the jumper block, and almost all can hit at least 400MHZ with no additional cooling).

If I AM able to upgrade the memory, I have several 128mb sticks of PC100 and PC133 laying around at home. Are Mac's (or at least this series of G3) picky about the type of RAM used, and if so, what do the require?

They are pretty picky. It'd be worth trying a couple of the sticks you have to see if they work. I upgraded the ram in my powerbook and had no problems for a while. Then the machine started freezing. I took out the kingston party ram and it went back to being friendly. I bought a no name brand of ram and it is working just fine.

You didn't mention the model of your system, but check this link out: LowEndMac.com. It has some information that may be pertinent. In fact, according to that page (if I got the model correct) OS X isn't officially supported (10.3+).

 

[MajorPayne]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: MajorPayne

Originally posted by: mikecel79
My friend has a PowerMac G4 500Mhz 384MB running OSX (10.1 I think) and it runs pretty good but I wouldn't call it fast. He uses it mostly for editing wedding videos and surfing the web.

A 300Mhz G3 with only 128MB would be a stretch for the latest version of OSX. As much as I dislike OS9 I think OSX would run far to slow on that machine. Maybe if you upgrade the memory and put in a faster drive and find a copy of OSX 10.0 or 10.1 you can run it on there.

I MAY be able to upgrade the memory (I do not think that should put the system out of spec). I can definitely upgrade the hard drive (I have a 40GB 7200 RPM drive at home which is just waiting for its new mac home to arrive), and I WILL be OC'ng the processor as much as possible (research has told me that these G3's are easy to overclock using the jumper block, and almost all can hit at least 400MHZ with no additional cooling).

If I AM able to upgrade the memory, I have several 128mb sticks of PC100 and PC133 laying around at home. Are Mac's (or at least this series of G3) picky about the type of RAM used, and if so, what do the require?

They are pretty picky. It'd be worth trying a couple of the sticks you have to see if they work. I upgraded the ram in my powerbook and had no problems for a while. Then the machine started freezing. I took out the kingston party ram and it went back to being friendly. I bought a no name brand of ram and it is working just fine.

You didn't mention the model of your system, but check this link out: LowEndMac.com. It has some information that may be pertinent. In fact, according to that page (if I got the model correct) OS X isn't officially supported (10.3+).

Yeah, I have been picking around this site since buying the machine (unfortunately, I probably will not get to play with it for several days yet). This site is where I found how to overclock them. I HAVE heard that some of the OSX versions are not supported, but can still be shoehorned on with a utility (I forgot what it is called). When I get the machine, I will try the RAM sticks I have to see if any work (even if I have to remove them for the testing, at least I will know which works, and keep em for later). On the upside, when testing is done, I have heard that this computer can be upgraded with a G4 processor, so I may look into that later.... Depending on how much cost is involved.

 

[manly]

XPostFacto

 

[Ecgtheow]

I have heard that this computer can be upgraded with a G4 processor, so I may look into that later.... Depending on how much cost is involved.

Putting a G4 in that machine would be a waste.

 

[imported_Lucifer]

Is the G3 you purchased the Blue and White G3 or the Beige G3?

If the blue and white, it would run pretty well with OS X. IT does have the 100mhz FSB. OS X version 10.3 runs smooth on my 400mhz G4. The 768mb of RAM makes it run very smooth. Putting a G4 in the blue and white G3 wouldnt really be a waste. It would be just like having one of the PCI Powermac G4's. Keep in mind, you have no AGP slot. If you want to upgrade the video card, the best PCI card available for the G3 would be the ATI Radeon 9200 128mb card.

If it is the beige G3, it would run OS X decently. It has a 66mhz FSB. Just dont expect OS X to fly on it though. To run OS X version 10.3 nativly, you would need Xpostfacto, as suggested in a previous post. Also, as n0cmonkey mentioned, the beige G3 is not officialy supported for 10.3 and up. You can, however, run Jaguar, version 10.2 without having to use a hack to install OS X. I heard Jaguar runs fine on it. This machine also has no AGP slot, so the Radeon 9200 would be a good card. May I also mention, it is possible to raise the FSB on this machine. I heard of people overclocking the beige G3 FSB at up to 83mhz. But that is on the stock processor it comes with. Putting a G4 in this machine may be a waste, as it will be limited to a 66mhz FSB. But you do get altivec, which will make tasks that take advantage of this run faster.

Good Luck!

 

[OffTopic1]

It might worth yout money to put some more ram on to the system and add a biger hdd, but it is not worth upgrade to OSX. You might want to wait till Tiger come out & put the money into a new box.

 

[hopejr]

If you install OS X, be aware that you would need to run the software in Classic mode which may have compatibility issues (assuming that the software you're testing requires OS 9). This is because OS X is a completely different OS to OS 9 and can't run OS 9 apps natively. It may be best to leave OS 9 on there (which is a pain, but in your circumstances it may be necessary).

 

[gwag]

has to be you got a blue and white, a bigger faster HD is you best upgrade, it has 4 ram slots its not picky about ram, if your lucky most 300's were made by IBM and are way under rated if its an IBM you'll likely get it to 400mhz no prob. OS X is great I would go for 384M of ram with it sounds like you have it. you may be better poking around @ xlr8yourmac.com than asking for info here, a lot of misinformation has been posted above. be carefull if you get a rev1 motherboard they can have HD corruption issues with some drives.
video card upgrade is not worth the cash unless you get one cheap (used or flash a 7000) and it really only will help out with games not the OS or 2d stuff quartz extreme can be made to work on PCI cards (radeon class) but I dont think its worth it(been there done it)
further info: http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/G3-ZONE/yosemite/newfeatures.html

 

[MajorPayne]

Originally posted by: Thin Lizzy
Is the G3 you purchased the Blue and White G3 or the Beige G3?

If the blue and white, it would run pretty well with OS X. IT does have the 100mhz FSB. OS X version 10.3 runs smooth on my 400mhz G4. The 768mb of RAM makes it run very smooth. Putting a G4 in the blue and white G3 wouldnt really be a waste. It would be just like having one of the PCI Powermac G4's. Keep in mind, you have no AGP slot. If you want to upgrade the video card, the best PCI card available for the G3 would be the ATI Radeon 9200 128mb card.

If it is the beige G3, it would run OS X decently. It has a 66mhz FSB. Just dont expect OS X to fly on it though. To run OS X version 10.3 nativly, you would need Xpostfacto, as suggested in a previous post. Also, as n0cmonkey mentioned, the beige G3 is not officialy supported for 10.3 and up. You can, however, run Jaguar, version 10.2 without having to use a hack to install OS X. I heard Jaguar runs fine on it. This machine also has no AGP slot, so the Radeon 9200 would be a good card. May I also mention, it is possible to raise the FSB on this machine. I heard of people overclocking the beige G3 FSB at up to 83mhz. But that is on the stock processor it comes with. Putting a G4 in this machine may be a waste, as it will be limited to a 66mhz FSB. But you do get altivec, which will make tasks that take advantage of this run faster.

Good Luck!

It IS a blue and white, and is running stock at 300MHZ, with 128MB RAM and 100mhz FSB. I found out from work that they are interested in testing on this maching BOTH in OS X and in OS 9, since we have offices on both of these. I have 4 sticks of 128MB Ram at home that SHOULD work in this machine (providing it is not too picky), and I will experiment with them. Work said that I can go up to 512MB ram, since they are more interested in limited processor/older OS problems than limited RAM. When I am done with the testing on this machine, I will look into the G4 processor, since I have heard that the B&W's are quite good with this upgrade.

 

[MajorPayne]

Originally posted by: gwag
has to be you got a blue and white, a bigger faster HD is you best upgrade, it has 4 ram slots its not picky about ram, if your lucky most 300's were made by IBM and are way under rated if its an IBM you'll likely get it to 400mhz no prob. OS X is great I would go for 384M of ram with it sounds like you have it. you may be better poking around @ xlr8yourmac.com than asking for info here, a lot of misinformation has been posted above. be carefull if you get a rev1 motherboard they can have HD corruption issues with some drives.
video card upgrade is not worth the cash unless you get one cheap (used or flash a 7000) and it really only will help out with games not the OS or 2d stuff quartz extreme can be made to work on PCI cards (radeon class) but I dont think its worth it(been there done it)
further info: http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/G3-ZONE/yosemite/newfeatures.html

Thanks gwag! I will check that site out right now... I have enough RAM (if the system is not too picky) to get up to 512, and work said that this works for thier tests too, so I will definitely go for it. I will try bumping the processor (the seller said that he thinks this one has the IBM chip, but I will check it out myself when I get it). I hope to hit at least 400MHZ with it. It IS a rev1 board, and I have heard about the corruption issues, and I have heard differing things. Several sites I saw said that it happens when using 2 or more hard drives, and several said that it is caused by HDD's that are too fast (??). Does anyone know which of these are correct?

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: gwag
has to be you got a blue and white, a bigger faster HD is you best upgrade, it has 4 ram slots its not picky about ram, if your lucky most 300's were made by IBM and are way under rated if its an IBM you'll likely get it to 400mhz no prob. OS X is great I would go for 384M of ram with it sounds like you have it. you may be better poking around @ xlr8yourmac.com than asking for info here, a lot of misinformation has been posted above. be carefull if you get a rev1 motherboard they can have HD corruption issues with some drives.
video card upgrade is not worth the cash unless you get one cheap (used or flash a 7000) and it really only will help out with games not the OS or 2d stuff quartz extreme can be made to work on PCI cards (radeon class) but I dont think its worth it(been there done it)
further info: http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/G3-ZONE/yosemite/newfeatures.html

Please point out the misinformation above.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Since you finally told us what model it is ( :roll: ) check this out. They don't mention any OS X issues.

If you use a PCI IDE card, you don't have to worry about the hard drive corruption stuff. FAQ

 

[MajorPayne]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
Since you finally told us what model it is ( :roll: ) check this out. They don't mention any OS X issues.

If you use a PCI IDE card, you don't have to worry about the hard drive corruption stuff. FAQ

Sorry... I am VERY new to macs (I still don't technically even own one yet, until it arrives that is). I did not realize at the time I made the thread that there are several VERY different kinds of G3.

I DO plan on looking into a PCI IDE card (can any old one be used, or are there specific ones for macs?), since I have a 40GB WD 7200 RPM HDD I would like to throw in there eventually.

On the PLUS side, according to the low end mac article you cited, I can use pretty much any old PC100 RAM, and it should work fine -- very cool indeed, since I have heard that some macs are quite picky about RAM.