Diesel is popular in Europe because the taxes on diesel are less than the taxes on petroleum. Not surprisingly, the market for cars has shifted towards diesel.
no surprise that he is a republican
(even though he has stated that he would support hillary clinton)
(even though he has stated that he would support hillary clinton)
Apparently Honda is going to prove Lutz wrong. Honda is putting their Insight hybird powertrain into their new-to-the-US Fit (for release in 2007/2008) and price it at about the same as a Civic. 21.3 cu ft of cargo capacity, mid-50s fuel economy and a sticker likely under $18K is hardly "of doubtful benefit". Lutz just knows that GM could never pull off what Honda will.
no, Hybrids, can only last as long as the company is willing to subsidize them.
there is no way to make hybrids profitable.
Toyota subsidizes them. HOnda does. Ford Does, DCX does. GM will
it isnt possible, there is only SOOO cheap they can get the parts for, and Toyota knows they have the bank/budget to subsidize while no other industry player can.
TheSlamma
Diamond Member
- Sep 6, 2005
- 7,625
- 5
- 81
An even better thing for GM's image would be to make a line of cars that doesn't develop a dash rattle or have a cheap money saving switch go out in under 80K miles.
It is going to take atleast a decade of DECENT cars before I give the big 3 even a walk through the dealership on a Sunday while their closed.
It is going to take atleast a decade of DECENT cars before I give the big 3 even a walk through the dealership on a Sunday while their closed.
UNCjigga
Lifer
- Dec 12, 2000
- 25,668
- 10,388
- 136
I think for hybrids to become economically viable there has to be some way for carmakers to target 30% of the market for hybrid adoption. Its definately a scale vs. cost thing--once you increase the size of the market you can realize cost savings en masse. Another reason is that some hybrid parts suppliers (I think battery suppliers is one) enjoy a virtual monopoly in the market and they are keeping their costs high, because they know that a shift to fuel cell or a better lithium ion technology could put them out of business.
But to say that hybrids will NEVER make economic sense is just stupid. Just look at all the homebrew Prius projects that are getting (supposedly) 120mpg. And don't forget hybrid technology has only reached 2nd generation--we still haven't even seen the equivalent of a Ford Model T in hybrids yet (it ain't the Prius.)
Maybe something better will come along that will steal all the thunder from hybrids--be it E85 cars or biodiesel or fuel cells etc., I honestly don't care which technology wins, as long as filling up at a station becomes less painful!
But to say that hybrids will NEVER make economic sense is just stupid. Just look at all the homebrew Prius projects that are getting (supposedly) 120mpg. And don't forget hybrid technology has only reached 2nd generation--we still haven't even seen the equivalent of a Ford Model T in hybrids yet (it ain't the Prius.)
Maybe something better will come along that will steal all the thunder from hybrids--be it E85 cars or biodiesel or fuel cells etc., I honestly don't care which technology wins, as long as filling up at a station becomes less painful!
Once you can put advanced emissions equipment in diesels, it becomes cleaner than gasoline. In the United States, we've been using high sulfur diesel, which utterly destroys emissions equipment. However, we're getting low sulfur diesel (even lower than Europe) by the end of the year. Diesel cars will be available in less than a year that will be certified for all 50 states, meeting some of the strictest emissions standards in the world.
One of the problems with GM is that they don't want to put any money into Research and Development. They are ALWAYs behind the curve with technology research. Then they only go along with a technology because everyone but them is using it.
They've been doing work on hydrogen fuel.
That and hybrid vehicles are just a half-assed solution to fuel technology. It still burns fossil fuel, and hybrid cars haven't been on the streets long enough to know what the environmental impact really can be.
Wow, and this is why I'll never buy a GM car. If their leaders are too stupid to realize that MOST new technologies aren't cost effective until they see widespread use, I don't think much of their ability to run a company. People buying hybrids right now ARE doing it for reasons other than the current economic costs (although I'd suggest that spending money on Japanese batteries is better than spending money on Arab oil, even if it DOES cost more in the short run), they are the early adopters. But soon enough, once the technology is mature and in widespread use, costs will go down and it will start to make sense for most people to own a hybrid. It's basic economics...I'd disturbed that the Vice Chairman of GM doesn't understand that.
- Mar 20, 2000
- 102,407
- 8,595
- 126
ghosn feels the same way. guess you won't buy nissan either.
again, GM thinks that hybrids are just a stop-gap until the real replacement for gasoline comes along, and that GM will NEVER recoup a large investment in hybrid tech because hybrid tech will be dead in the water in 10 years. maybe once the tech is cheap and abundant (and it maynever be) it will make cost sense to consumers (and GM) to make a really large push into hybrids. but right now it simply does not. for a company that is struggling with cash flow as much as GM is, it is the right move.
Vic
Elite Member
- Jun 12, 2001
- 50,422
- 14,337
- 136
Hybrids run solely on "Arab oil." Those Japanese batteries simply store that Arab oil for a brief period. Hybrid technology will never "mature" for use in passenger cars. It's a fad for people too stupid to realize that you can still pollute without a exhaust pipe, for the same morons who think electric cars are "zero emissions." People buying hybrids right now are doing it because their misinformed brains think consumption is conservation. They refuse to realize that oil usage and pollution occur at other places than just the gas pump.
GM was the first to spend $20 million on hybrid/electronic vehicles back in the 70's. I don't recall the Japanese ever spending any real sum of money on ANY automotive technological improvement.
sandorski
No Lifer
- Oct 10, 1999
- 70,848
- 6,385
- 126
What? Sure, they use Fossil Fuels as a primary fuel source, but also gain energy from simple momentum. I'll agree that Hybrids are not the future, but merely a step towards the next solution, but they do save energy and are the best alternative currently available. Lutz's problem is that he doesn't want to develope Technology, he wants a replacement Energy Source that uses the old IC engine. Getting that will save GM $billions, unfortunetly others, such as Honda, will continue selling Hybrids in increasing numbers and GM will continue losing Market Share.
How long of a track record do you need before realising that GM is on the wrong track?
GM has a fleet of Hybrid busses.
GM has hybrids currently available.
GM has full hybrids coming out this fall
GM has an amazing new hybrid transmission.
GM has more things than you know they do.
TRENDING THREADS
-
Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)- Started by DisEnchantment
- Replies: 25K
-
Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads
- Started by Tigerick
- Replies: 24K
-
Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread- Started by TheF34RChannel
- Replies: 23K
-
-
Facebook
Twitter